"Why don't women just leave their abusive partners??" ....

[OnlyHerefortheBiscuits]

....is along the lines of what I used to think before I read Lundy Bancroft's book.

I've long suspected my childhood friend's husband is coercive/violent abusive and spent years expecting a call at some point from her asking for help. That call came last year. I heard about this book on here and told her to go and read it. I read it too, thinking it might help me understand her situation better... and oh boy it does.

The first half of the book, while the author describes the nature of abuse and the different profiles of abusive men my thinking remained unchanged. "For goodness sake why do women put up with this? This is red flags for days...why do they get involved, why not leave etc etc"... I found it a frustrating read but persevered.

BUT THEN the second half of the book talks about abusive men as fathers and how it shapes their children's belief systems. It was like a lightbulb. My friends dad was not exactly great...reading Lundy's explanation made total sense how she had gone on to choose the man that she did for her husband.

The second half also talks about how abuse can ramp up after having left such a man, in that he can manipulate and play the legal system, family courts, mental health professionals etc, damage the mothers' relationship with her children etc.. some of the stories were heartbreaking. I understand now it's not just as simple as leaving.

I hold my hands up and say I was very ignorant before reading this book. I was wrong. If like me you hold the same viewpoint I had before... I strongly encourage you to read this. But do it with a highlighter pen in hand!

Has anyone else read it and had their thoughts massively changed? Or did you read it and it helped you?

[InTheShallowTheShalalalalalalalow]

This reads like an advert tbh.

The freedom programme is available online, or through WA and is probably a lot better and more in depth and beneficial to women.

Freedom Programme

[pog100]

The book is also available free online. Apparently the author has waived his royalties. Just search for "Why does he do that" free pdf

[OnlyHerefortheBiscuits]

@InTheShallowTheShalalalalalalalow Not an ad I promise!

Well it is in the sense that I bought the book, read it, thought it was great and am telling other people about it....

[Northernparent68]

Lundy Bancroft isn’t a psychologist, its better to read works by professionals.

he doesn’t mention that some people are drawn to conflict and like drama

[OnlyHerefortheBiscuits]

@Northernparent68

Lundy Bancroft isn’t a psychologist, its better to read works by professionals.

he doesn’t mention that some people are drawn to conflict and like drama

Do you have any books by professionals you'd recommend? I'm very interested in this topic.

[Turtletunes]

It is one of many books that helped me understand what is going on in my own relationship. I'm one of the women who doesn't "just leave". I've been busy getting my ducks in a row since 2022 which was when I first encountered the notion of narcissistic personality disorder. I decided last year that I would be ready to leave in Jan 2024 which is when I would have received my first payslip in years.

So that date has been and gone, I've got plenty of money saved up and I'm still too scared to leave. I'm scared of things getting so much worse before they get better and ultimately, I'm scared of being killed in my sleep if I move into the spare room. I know that no-one else can pull the plug but me though and I will get there in the end.

Although I still feel trapped, it's thanks to that book and all the others that I've read that have removed the blinkers from my eyes so finally I understand what's going on and that it will never get getter and why it will never get better. Ooh and also probably most importantly of all - it's not my fault!!

[Turtletunes]

@OnlyHerefortheBiscuits

Do you have any books by professionals you'd recommend? I'm very interested in this topic.

The very first book that I stumbled on and left me open mouthed in disbelief at what I'd been subjected to, was The Gaslight Effect - You're Not Crazy, They're Gaslighting You, by Dr Theresa J Covert. I'd recommend that.

[cerisepanther73]

@OnlyHerefortheBiscuits cause of seriously head fuck childhood or and teenage years experinces or and other shitty experinces too, has severely damaged emotionally and psychologically and physiologically at times,
in such a way that their natural protective has been depleted to such a low lower levels ect.. etc..

[HippyCritical]

It was the first book I read (that I was able to bring into my house) after my husband left. I was very much still under his cloud and my head was still a mess so I didn't get an awful lot from it. I may or may not read it again.

I was given Living With The Dominator by Pat Craven (which is the book about the Freedom Programme linked to by @InTheShallowTheShalalalalalalalow ) by my Women's Aid support worker and it showed everything I'd been living with, much of which I hadn't realised.

I would also recommend In Control by Jane Monckton Smith.

I've just started another gaslighting book - The Gaslighting Effect by Reva Steenbergen - already it's telling me the story of my life with him.

@Turtletunes do you have any outside support? Is anyone else aware of what he's putting you through?

[cerisepanther73]

@OnlyHerefortheBiscuits
Essentially their shitty life extremes with not much or no emotionally support interventions ect.
has overwhelming stronghold unconscious deterimental effect on psyche ect

[Missmariannedashwood]

Sounds like you really needed the education of why women don’t leave.

[cocavino]

Yes, it helped me. I left my abusive, coercively controlling partner a few years ago and this was one of the resources that helped me to see him for what he really was / is.

Incidentally, life is way better now but my ex still does everything he can to make my life difficult. Out daughter hates him and I am constantly anxious about what it is that he is doing to her and how I can possibly protect her.

[Janpoppy]

So great to hear of people getting educated about something that is more prevelant than people realise. Women are especially in a position to help abused women by validating abuse rather than saying things like "all relationships are difficult" or "he probably didn't mean it that way", or "you probably just need to talk to him about it". So unhelpful.

A recent report found that 60% of single mothers with children under 18 had experienced abuse! This was out of 311,000 single mothers. So if you meet a single mum, odds are she's been abused by a partner.

This report highlights the issue of women wth children who are unable to leave abusive dynamics, as the alternative is living in poverty.


https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-07-07/60-per-cent-single-mothers-experience-domestic-violence/101214208?utm_source=abc_news_web&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_web

Find the report here: https://www.paulramsayfoundation.org.au/news-resources/the-choice-violence-or-poverty

[Janpoppy]

Also, look up academic Dr Emma Katz, a leading researcher on how coercive control affects mothers and children and post-separation abuse. Busting two pervasive myths -

Myth 1) An abusive partner can still be a "good parent."

If it isn't already obvious that it is very distressing/frightening/traumatising for children to witness one of their parents harming the other, it turns out that perpetrators of abuse directly target children as well as mothers.


Myth 2) that the abuse ends when she leaves.

Wrong!! So, so wrong. And it isn't just the increased liklihood of being killed by your ex-partner immediately after leaving, it is the ongoing post-separation abuse that occurs via the legal system, via financial control, psychological and emotional abuse via communication with regards to children, and using the children to continue to control and hurt mother and children, which is enabled by legal systems universally.

https://dremmakatz.substack.com/p/the-reason-behind-abusive-mens-regime

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/car.2611

[Queenofcarrotflour]

Yes, one of the best books I've ever read, and I've read a few! I cannot recommend this book enough.

[Aishah231]

I think money and of course children also play a massive role in why women stay. Abuse ramps up during pregnancy. Most women fear leaving children with an abusive or even just incompetent father - of which there are many

[WandaWonder]

@Aishah231

I think money and of course children also play a massive role in why women stay. Abuse ramps up during pregnancy. Most women fear leaving children with an abusive or even just incompetent father - of which there are many

That explains having the first child perhaps but doesn't explain having 6 with them

[DaffodilsAlready]

@Northernparent68

Lundy Bancroft isn’t a psychologist, its better to read works by professionals.

he doesn’t mention that some people are drawn to conflict and like drama

That’s really offensive.
Control is insidious. And it is mixed with normal behaviour so the victim does not know which way is up. And often they blame themselves and try to make things better instead of seeing it as abuse.

A good book is Coercive Control by Evan Stark. He talks about the wider patterns of inequality which women face and the ways in which domestic abuse is linked to much longer historical inequalities in a way which is really interesting and eye-opening. I paraphrase but he argues that you need to see domestic abuse as an extension of historical patriarchal structures which are now personalised and taken into domestic space. Some of the abuse he describes is really violent, but he also talks about non-violent abuse and the way control works. I also appreciate his broader arguments about equality - for as long as women do not have equality in the home they will not be able to participate equally in the public and work space. However, I think second wave feminists argued that one first.

[Couldntgiveafunk]

@WandaWonder

That explains having the first child perhaps but doesn't explain having 6 with them

Dozens of reasons.

He controls her doctors appointments and refuses to allow her on the pill.

He bullies her in to agreeing to another child by financially controlling her and withholding money.

He makes her financially dependant on him by refusing to pay for childcare so she can start work again, so he can use money as a way of bullying her in to more kids.

He forces himself on her without a condom when she can’t use hormonal birth control for health reasons.

She really wants a second child but can’t leave him for the above mentioned reasons, so in her head it’s better to just have another with him; she’s already got one kid in this situation, what difference does another make?

Once she’s had kids with him she can’t stand the thought of 50/50 because then she can’t protect the kids when they are with him, so in her head better to stay and be the buffer.

He wants more kids and she’s desperate to do whatever it takes to keep him happy and less abusive.

[DaffodilsAlready]

Janpoppy yes.
I mean, my ex engaged me, shall I say, in legal proceedings for a full six years after I left. It stopped when he met someone else. it was about DC on paper - and whether I was a fit parent and my mental health and a hundred and one other things - but it was about controlling me. And it was the thing which made me think, well, I wasn’t wrong that he was controlling when we were together. And I also know it wasn’t about DC because his contact is less now. But legally, he was able to do that.

Anyway, I am going to hide this thread because it’s triggering. Believe me, victims of abuse spent lots of time thinking, why did I not leave, or can I not leave, and I don’t really want to rehearse these all again.

Society expects people to be in couples and single parents are still stigmatised. There are financial and emotional penalties to being a single parent. Why is the question always - why didn’t she leave? It should be - why did he behave so badly that this was her only choice?

[Wallywobbles]

Yes it changed my mind. I thought my ex must be ill to act so badly. Actually he is just a cunt.

[RubyOtter]

It took me a fair few goes to leave. And about five years. When they've ground you down over time and leave you with no self esteem and a full belief that you can't cope on your own (because look how you are when you've got me to help you, what would you be like alone), it makes it psychologically difficult.

I developed agrophobia and was terrified to leave the house. But in the end, I hit 40, and something clicked. Did I really want the rest of my life to be like this?

I lost my nerve a few weeks afterwards, but luckily for me he'd moved on to lovebombing a woman at his work. (Thank you, God!) Before he quickly moved out and in with her he'd boast to me about the lovebombing and wrapping her round his finger just like he'd done with me.

That was the point where I realised that everything he'd done to me was deliberate, and that it wasn't just a case of him "not realising".

I moved countries and let two years elapse before divorcing him because I was so scared of him. When I decided that I had to leave, I looked up unreasonable behaviour, wondering if it might be possible to gather six instances to get a quicker divorce. I was so upset when I read dozens and dozens of things that all applied to me. I'd been living in a massively abusive environment and I'd had no idea of the extent of it. I felt sick with the realisation.

Even now, nearly twenty years later, I sometimes think that it couldn't have been that bad, and maybe it had been me. And also that I probably contributed to it.
Then I tell myself off, and remember a couple of the worst things that happened.

I am absolutely not the person I was before I met him. He killed some of my natural exuberance, and whilst I'm a lot happier, I'm still diminished.

We had no children. If we had, there's no doubt the abuse would have continued.

[HippyCritical]

So much of your post resonates with me @RubyOtter .

The bit about even now thinking it couldn't have been that bad - I'll sometimes tell someone one or two instances of his abuse and they look at me blankly (I'm glad for them that they don't get it) . I know it can sound like nothing to some people but when you are under their cloud the abuse can be so, so subtle that all it takes is for him to twitch or look in your direction for a millisecond and you know there's going to be hell. Your nerves are constantly on high alert, it's little wonder we often become unwell shells.

I'm so glad you're out now

[Xenoi24]

Lundy Bancroft isn’t a psychologist, its better to read works by professionals

LB has worked with abusive men in the US legal system for decades. He saw every type, heard every excuse, every justification, every minimisation, saw the patterns and defined them beautifully in his books.

His integrity in making his texts available for free is clear. His integrity also shines though if you see him speaking.

He has extensive, coal face, real life experience.

I'd take that over a psychologist anyday.

[Xenoi24]

Another person like Lundy Bancroft, in Ireland instead, is Don Hennessy.

Though he worked with victims rather than perpetrators.

His book takes a little bit of getting into, but it is superb.