Non-monogamous relationships discussion thread

[wishfuldreamer]

I know that the last time someone attempted this, it didn't end well. but, some time has passed here, and i've witnessed some more reasonable discussions - and there were enough people asking questions on a different thread that I thought maybe a separate thread might be useful, rather than derail the OP's advice more than it already was.

I realise i can't control the direction of this, but I was thinking about this more as a place for people to ask questions and a place for discussion. not really for people in happy monogamous marriages to tell ENM folks what they are doing wrong/don't understand. Monogamous marriage is a perfectly valid choice, as far as I'm concerned, it just isn't the choice for me.

anyway...the space is here if people want to discuss or ask questions.

[ComtesseDeSpair]

Do you find yourself thinking about the other partners when you’re with one? Like, do you worry about their well-being, their latest job interview, whether their mum will need that operation and how will they cope…? etc, etc.

Not the poster of the post you quoted and my relationships aren’t quite as complex or in depth; but yes I do think about other partners when I’m not with them. Although if I’m engrossed in an activity or sex or a conversation with one person, my thoughts and attention are usually with them, much as if you’re spending time with one friend you probably aren’t thinking too much about another.

I’d like there to be normal representation of and discussion about non monogamy, to highlight that it’s really not what many people assume of it and there’s no one size fits all example of it. Because non monogamy is taboo, few people speak openly about it: so the only insight most people get into it is those dreadful Channel 5 programmes about frankly not very appealing people going dogging or to grimy-looking sex clubs; or the fallout of situations like the “open marriage gone wrong” thread. Most of my (many) friends are or have at some point been in non monogamous relationships and I can’t think of more than one break up of a primary relationship due to the non monogamy element. Most non monogamous relationships with problems have the same problems as and break up for mostly the same reasons as monogamous ones - and I think that’s useful for people to realise.

The “open marriage gone wrong” thread isn’t a great example of a non monogamous relationship and nor is the non monogamy aspect actually the reason it’s gone wrong - it’s gone wrong because the OP didn’t want to have sex ever again, wasn’t willing to explore changing that, and had she not agreed to her OH having sex outside the marriage then the marriage would have ended anyway.

[Boonlark]

There can be some complex diaries! But basically you schedule like in any mono couple. So if a partner asks to meet up, and you're free and want to, you pop it in your diary. Sometimes we have to speak up if we feel we need more/less time together...and that's something that I really value; not leaving stuff unsaid.

Emotional labour wise, well I look for a partner who doesn't expect me to be their everything, and doesn't expect me to take on the mental load for them. And it's great having a metamour who can share the load when our partner is going through stuff.

[TimeToDateAgain]

Two of the most stable long term poly relationships I know are a woman living with her two male partners

Likewise I know of a similar set-up: the house is large enough that the people involved also invite their other partners (not long-term) there.

[wishfuldreamer]

Yup, I agree with @Boonlark - the diary planning can be hard work. I think, with covid, we’ve all forgotten a bit how to do it, because there’s been so little else to do. Now, craig and I in particular, are having to do some readjustment because we bubbled and so spent a lot’of time together in a way we wouldn’t have normally. So now we’re having to work our way through some of that change and balancing not just other partners but also the rest of our lives, as we don’t live in the same city (though not that far apart). In fact, it’s the other stuff, over partners, that’s often the trickiest thing.

On the who you think about when…I am solo poly - I live on my own and apart from
Craig, who I do share a space with more often over multiple days when we have time, see partners for an evening, or a 24 hour period. In general, my primary focus is on them. That’s not always possible - when I split up from Ted it wasn’t something I was easily able to put aside when I saw craig sometimes, but he was an amazing support.

It is definitely not without its challenges, but I think that’s true for whatever relationship style you choose. I think it’s about what works for you, and realising you can actually choose. Realising that i didn’t have to choose the life I had before was a real lightbulb moment for me. I realised I hadn’t actively chosen monogamy, or children…it was something I was just doing, because it seemed like the thing to do after being with someone for so long.

I think we’d all (or many of us anyway) be happier if we actively chose our relationship structures, and questioned ourselves just a bit more than we do about why we want them. We might still choose monogamous marriage at the end of that, but i wish I’d thought about it a bit more when I was younger!

[TimeToDateAgain]

I wonder if this is a set-up that works very well when most people involved are resilient and have good self-esteem alongside decent social networks.

It's all too easy to see potential downsides or how it could be yet another way to coerce people who've been ground down or have poor self-esteem or mental health.

I think we’d all (or many of us anyway) be happier if we actively chose our relationship structures, and questioned ourselves just a bit more than we do about why we want them

Positive choices and communication sounds better than resignation or despair that life could be any better.

[daffodils123]

In the arrangement you describe does anyone have primary custody of a child & how does it work when people have kids as it sounds like a lot of people coming in and out of their life?

Also, do all of you work full time? I find it hard enough to spend enough quality time with my partner, so I'm always surprised to read this situations when someone has multiple people on the go. How do you find time or do you find most people are childless?

Would you ever consider having children with one of the men you're partnered with?

[Boonlark]

I live with my dc. In my case it's fairly simple, in that they already knew my partner and metamour as my friends.

Their dad is also poly (but he hasn't been open about that with them) so that's easier for me. Some people have real problems with the mother/father of their dc being poly, and some have lost their dc because of it.

I do the solo poly thing too, and wouldn't want to live with a partner...probably ever, but definitely until the dc are adults. That makes things simpler.

Also, poly doesn't necessarily mean having lots of different partners in and out of dc lives. I tend towards long term partners, with the odd comet (we get together when we see each other but don't see each other often). And the dc would be kept away from comets. Other people have lifelong multiple partners.

The really lovely thing about poly, is that you can talk to the metamours of anyone you're interested in (or at least I do) to make sure they're ok with the idea, and to find out what their partner is like as a partner. And as the poly community is relatively small, you'll usually know an ex of theirs etc. So for me, it feels safer.

[TackyJewellery]

Another question: how often do you come across people you really fancy? I’ve been with DH 11 years and I can honestly say I’ve probably only met one person in real life during that time who’s made me think, yeah I could go there (I didn’t).

My point is, for me it’s very uncommon to meet one person in a decade who tickles my fancy, let alone multiple people. This has always been the case. I’ve had long stretches if being single in between long term relationships because it’s a particular kind of person and chemistry I’m looking for and I’ve had it with very few people ever. I can’t imagine finding that with multiple people concurrently.

Is the attraction you feel towards your partners ‘genuine’ or contextual? By which I mean that you mention it’s a small community - are you ever in a position where you’re picking the best of an average bunch, so to speak? And do you decide to actively look for a partner if a ‘space’ becomes available, or does it happen more naturally than that? Say, if you broke up with all your partners save one, would you want to go and get more, or would you just stay with the one unless someone new fell in your lap?

[Boonlark]

Everyone is different.

For me, I'm not constantly on the lookout, nor feeling like I have to have a certain number of partners. I'm just open to the possibility of a connection, and have my partner's encouragement in that. I think having dc makes me more cautious, and so does previous bad experience in a couple of my mono relationships.

[HollySass]

Those special terms (comet, meta... something) makes it all sound like a nerdy hobby - a game of Dragons & Dungeons or something...

I've been a comet. Still remember telling all my friends how good it felt shagging that womans husband and then flittering away careless. It all did cause some tensions between them at the time that I was glad to avoid. They're still married and we're friends.

I'm not Poly though. Just a common garden variety slut. I like my relationships no-strings-attached.

[HollySass]

Definitely need to add - good luck! I imagine a support thread would be a good idea. There's a lot to process...

[ComtesseDeSpair]

I know and meet a lot of very attractive people, largely because I’m in the Burning Man crowd which seems to attract a disproportionately high level of hotties and go to a lot of “scene” parties which attract beautiful people happy to take their clothes off in public. So on that level, I’m never picking the best of an average bunch but from an above average bunch.

Neither DP nor I actively go seeking out other people. Like Boonlark it’s more about the freedom to make connections or take something further if we happen to cross paths with somebody pretty great. We’re both busy people with full on professional jobs, hobbies and a lot of friends, and we are each the other’s priority and favourite person to be with - so whilst we’re childfree which obviously allows us more freedom, we don’t generally have the time or inclination to actively seek out stuff for the sake of if.

In terms of finding it hard to find the particular kind of person and chemistry that works for you: I suppose the difference is that dating / meeting new people when you’re monogamous means you’re going to be looking for somebody who ticks of all of your boxes. Which is rare. Whereas when you have relationships with more than one partner (and particularly if you already have a primary partner) that doesn’t need to be the case. I already have a pretty perfect primary partner. As a result, I don’t need my other partners or FWBs to be perfect. It doesn’t matter if we don’t click on every single level or if they’re people I’d never consider living with or if they’re a bit emotionally unavailable or whatever. It’s less complicated.

[TimeToDateAgain]

I already have a pretty perfect primary partner. As a result, I don’t need my other partners or FWBs to be perfect.

I can see the advantages of living with someone with whom you're compatible and recognising that it's possible to have a very different relationship with someone else where proximity would never work on a regular basis. It sounds like it would give a very different support rhythm to the many different parts of life (including the more run of the mill parts like work, caring responsibilities, health).

[supercali77]

What I'm wondering is if a primary partner is pretty perfect, what's the drive to look outside? Particularly if the looking outside isn't yielding someone who necessarily knocks your socks off? Given that all relationships require emotional labour, trust, etc. Whats the pay off?

[ComtesseDeSpair]

Well, think of it this way: most people have friends, don’t they? And most people would class those friends as very important people in their lives. And few people would say to someone in a monogamous relationship, “well, if your partner is so perfect, what do you need any friends for?” would they?

So I have some friends who I go out to dinner with and go the theatre with and go cycling with; and some friends who I go out to dinner with and go to the theatre with and go cycling with and also have sex with. Because I don’t see sex as something sacred which you must only have with one person for the rest of your life, any more than I think you need to pick one person to go out to dinner with for the rest of your life.

I know it can be a contentious view, but I’m always surprised when parents who have more than one child aren’t able to even start to comprehend non monogamy. Do you have more than one child because you don’t love your first child enough? Because they aren’t good enough? Because they disappoint you?

Or do you believe that you can feel love for more than one child simultaneously and that each one is a different human being with different attributes who just brings more joy to your life?

So why is the idea of loving or desiring more than one partner at a time seen as so ridiculously different?

[TimeToDateAgain]

So why is the idea of loving or desiring more than one partner at a time seen as so ridiculously different?

It's not unusual to see people discuss their feelings about a partner's/spouse's emotional affair. I can see how it would be possible to develop a loving and close bond with someone else if it's not limited by concerns about it transforming into a deep emotional connection (with/out sex involved).

[wishfuldreamer]

ooo, such interesting conversations going on - this is exactly what i was hoping this thread would become. thanks everyone :-)

So, some thoughts... @HollySass - i think the reason why there are words, is because there are things which exist which don't really have words otherwise. saying 'my partner's partner' all the time is a bit clunky. Why not invent a word for it? but, on the flipside...people who are poly are, in my experience, often quite nerdy about relationships. there is also quite the overlap with board gaming and D&D, though that's not really my thing. Also, whether you are poly or not...I don't think it really matters. As i said upthread, there are some people who are very specific about what 'counts' as poly or not, and it can be useful to agree definitions so people know what they are getting (for example, there are lots of poly people who aren't interested at all in casual sex). For me, in general, i think just a broader freedom to engage in non-monogamous relationships however we want to define them would be great. I really enjoyed reading The Ethical Slut on this :-)

On @TackyJewellery's question around who you are attracted to. I think @ComtesseDeSpair's answer is definitely true - if you're not looking for a 'one and only', the avenues open slightly. but i also think different people ahve different ways of experiencing sexual attraction. a former partner of mine enjoys sex almost like a hobby - he is just open to experiencing new things with new people, if they are open to it, and only that basis is often attracted to a really wide range of people. for me, it's a bit narrower...i can have a ONS on a fairly shallow basis, but i get a lot more satisfaction out of longer term connections and attraction is very much about getting to know someone a bit. I find it hard to be attracted to someone on a greater level than 'oh, yes, they are objectively good looking, fancy that', without getting to know them a bit and finding their personality attractive too. My long term partner is even more specific than me, and doesn't find people he's attracted to very frequently at all. but when he does, he tends to fall quite hard, and it's super cute to watch.

This summer, i did go out specifically seeking people. for me, I had been looking forward to being a little hedonistic when i split up with my long term mono relationship, and because i kind of ended up falling in love with two people, i didn't do it really - because i figured trying to handle two relationships and learning how to be poly was enough of a hassle. then the pandemic happened. so i felt like i hadn't really explored this side of me. and when Ted and I split up at the beginning of the summer, it felt like a good time to explore it. I didn't really intend to start other 'serious' relationships, but it turns out that that is kind of the way my brain works. I just sort of make strong connections with people.

i'm not looking now, and I think if i met someone I really connected with, i would have to think very carefully about what I wanted to do - because I don't really feel like i have the space for anyone else in my life at the moment. As someone said to me once, despite having the freedom to say 'yes', a lot of polyamory is about saying 'no', just as much as monogamy is.

In terms of that 'drive' to look elsewhere...i think this is an interesting question. different people approach this differently. some people really want to experience many different kinds of relationships - and sometimes these people can be a little toxic. i've seen them called 'collectors'. others don't necessarily want a 'serious' relationship, which is fine if they are upfront from my perspective.

other people dont' have a 'primary' partner. Craig and i are, i guess, descriptively hierarchical, in the sense that we've been together for a few years now and are quite central in each other's lives, but i wouldn't call it a primary relationship in that it takes precedence over others. it's not something that is being preserves, or protected, against other relationships, int he way that some forms of ENM/poly work.

for me, it's about how i see and understand life and relationships. I have a bit of a blurry understanding about romantic relationships - i'm not a super fan of strictly defined categories, and i also don't see why i should prioritise romantic relationships over very long term friendships. so for me, it's about individual connections and being able to act on them if i want to. if i meet a new friend, i don't not-explore that connection because i already have friends. similarly, if i'm attracted to someone, i might want to pursue that. but i think it's a very different way of approach life and relationships in general, that wouldnt' appeal to a lot of other people. and that's ok :-)

[wishfuldreamer]

Oh, the final thing i forgot, was children. so, I have chosen not to have children, because I have fertility issues and realised in the process of beginning fertility treatment that it wasn't something I wanted to do. it really threw it into focus - i just didn't want it enough to put my body through that.

I do love children, though, and for me with poly there is a potential to be involved with a sort of peripheral parenting. Craig's housemate has a little girl, who he is involved with parenting in a communal way (he takes on some childcare, and they have agreed in the house how discipline works etc). I see her when i'm there, though i have a much less involved role, obviously, and am much more just like a friend of her dad's who is around sometimes. she's really attached to craig though, and he has made a proper commitment there to be involved long term, kind of in a godparent/uncle type role.

Andrew has a little girl - preschooler - who i haven't met yet. we have discussed it, but at the moment have kept those things separate. I think he enjoys having the separation of 'dad' him, and I don't necessarily want to domesticate our relationship at this early stage. there are obviously other issues to work out if you have a child. andrew lives with the mother of his daughter, and they are careful to make sure that they both spend time with her, and that the childcare isn't falling disproportionately on one or the other of them. it obviously has some limitations on how much time he has to spend with me, and the shape our relationship takes (as more of a 'fun' thing, away from immediate parental responsibilities), but i knew that going in. and if we get more serious and want to change it, it something we're all engaged with.

[Ayeshstar2020]

Unpopular opinion coming in….

I think that as a medium to long term strategy these types of “relationship” are untenable because human beings are fundamentally pair bonding. Pair bonding is the only stable arrangement for people long term and of course for raising children. It’s delusional and unconscientious. People who do it just don’t want to take responsibility.

I also feel that broadly it’s a bit of construct weighted in favour of horny, disrespectful men. It’s patriarchal (and I’m not really a believer in that). It’s an alarming trend in culture. I don’t think we should be so accommodating of it.

It’s also phenomenally boring hearing or reading about the complex dynamics and even more complex language. Metamour?? Compersion (the feeling of joy you get when your partner gets another lover)? Sounds like Victorian Venereal Disease. Quite fitting really. Please just bore off!!

[Ayeshstar2020]

My other observation knowing some poly people is that they don’t tend to have busy jobs or any job. And this have the time for this utter nonsense.

[Ayeshstar2020]

Unless you are part of the rich burning man “play party” orgy set who may have professional jobs but can indulge in totally unorthodox arrangements because they are so privileged (and less vulnerable to the hurt or disadvantage these arrangements can bring).

[whycantwegoonasthree]

Now you see, I was all up for supporting this thread until Ayeshstar pitched in with her ill-informed judgement, at which point I feel it's probably going to go the same way as previous threads on here about non-monogamy.

I tried to start one about parenting in a non-monogamous context, and asked for a topic about it. That turned into a 1000+ post shitfest of judgement and accusations of child abuse.

I genuinely think Mumsnet isn't the right forum for it. It's not anywhere near progressive or open-minded enough, frankly.

[TimeToDateOnline]

whycantwegoonasthree - It's 3 dissenting comments (from 1 poster) in a thread of almost 50 posts.

However - is it unthinkable that MN would explicitly make this a support/discussion thread as they do for other sensitive areas like partners/spouses of people with ASD/ADHD? They have a MN header for that and it seems to keep it on track.

[Boonlark]

My thinking is that most people would either be asking questions or just feel that the thread isn't one for them. Maybe it's best to just ignore and report posts that try to derail things?

[Bigeggsinapackoften]

God help those of us who were paid bonded to raise kids and our marriages fell apart. Clearly we are suboptimal according to @Ayeshstar2020