He doesn't pay attention unless I shout

[Desperadoo]

Please be kind.
I'm already feeling volatile about this and loathe myself for the way I'm behaving.

DH doesn't listen to me unless I'm shouting at him. He literally pays no attention. He doesn't remember conversations we've had, says "ok" to my requests but doesn't follow through or just blatantly ignores me.

There was a situation last week whereby he had asked me to arrange something for him. I did it, but he criticised the way I'd done it. I tried explaining that he hadn't communicated specifically what he needed from me, but he couldn't grasp what I was saying at all and I ended up shouting to get him to listen. I feel invisible unless I'm shouting.

I asked him specifically and calmly to stop lunging the children at me when they were playing "flying" on the sofa. I had a pen in my hand and was trying to write a shopping list. The pen almost poked DC in the eye so I requested he stop. He then did it again and the pen poked DC in the eye. I shouted angrily at him and found myself repeating "why do I need to shout to be listened to?!"

Then I've specifically asked him to take DCs out on a Sunday morning for an hour or 2 so that I can clean the house. I'm not asking him to do any cleaning, just take them out and I will do it. He would usually take them swimming at this time pre lockdown so it's when I get the cleaning done. I don't mind doing it provided I have the space to.We've had several conversations around this, reminders etc. He always nods away. We are in a bubble with his Mother, so he has somewhere to take them even if the weather is bad.
Yesterday, after cleaning upstairs, I came downstairs and the house was a tip, I asked him to tidy up so I could clean assuming he would be taking DCs out as usual (they are very small so cause more mess as I'm cleaning and it becomes an impossible task, hence him needing to take them out). I went for a shower instead believing he was tidying and getting them ready to leave the house, came back downstairs and the house was even more of a tip and he proclaimed "we're not going out today."

I found myself reminding him of the copious amount of conversations we've had around this and he glazed over as if they'd never happened. He then said that he would clean and watch DCs at the same time, no big deal. Completely missing the point that Sunday mornings are my time to get a bit of space and quiet to do a few jobs. I even had to use the analogy of me keeping DCs away from his office so that he can work during the week and that I needed the same from him on a Sunday morning for 2 hours.

He just came at me with counter arguments. I lost my temper and shouted in his face. I felt like my head was going to explode as he failed to listen to anything I was saying despite all the conversations we've had around this. I ended up crying and going out for 4 hours on my own to calm down. I've been up most of the night feeling ashamed of myself for losing my temper so much recently. On the other hand, this man just does not take in anything I'm saying unless I'm shouting. This isn't who I want to be.

In general life, he appears to need a lot of sensory stimulation. He's extremely loud himself, always has big bright lights on, loud music, makes big movements. I'm starting to wonder if small sounds, calm requests just have no impact on him, like he just can't hear them. I'm starting to wonder if he has a sensory problem? He would also do what I would describe as 'stimming' so I believe there could be a problem.

I've found that the only way I can avoid getting so angry with him is complete emotional distance from him and me treating him as I would an employee, dishing out regular black and white instructions and sharing the DCs in seperate time slots where we're not around each other. This isn't the way I want to live at all.

His parents tell me that he's never been much of a communicator. I feel I'm communicating very clearly but still not getting my needs met. I'm worried that I'm losing my mind sometimes. How do I relate to and navigate life with someone who follows their own unspoken agenda without much thought for much else?

[CharityDingle]

Your OP reminded me of an old thread, which you might find helpful.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2275725-Anyone-else-end-up-as-an-angry-banshee-after-living-with-Mr-Nice-passive-irresponsible

[YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet]

@Desperadoo

Can I make a plea to MN?
Please don't delete this thread.
I've had threads before around DH and MIL potentially being autistic and they get wiped off when it's reported by those who take offence.

This thread is the only support I have at the moment and I'm feeling extremely low. Removing it would be more harmful to me right now than anyone who takes offence.

Hello @Desperadoo we appreciate that you are looking for support. We can't ever make the promise that we won't delete a thread but we try to avoid doing this where we can.

The issue is that on various threads, negative personality traits have been associated with Autism or Aspergers, without the people involved having any formal diagnosis. Some MNers, especially those with personal experience of ASD, consider this to simply reinforce negative stereotypes and feel it's disablist.

It's fine to suggest someone perhaps needs to seek assessment, but we do ask that users do not attribute poor behaviour to ASD and to bear in mind that you can't diagnose someone over the internet.

OP, we wish you the best of luck in dealing with this situation.

[Okokokbear]

@YetAnotherBeckyMumsnet

I think people posting here have been very clear that they aren't attempting to diagnose somone on the Internet. I also think that some posters have decided that people are associating negative traist with autism. When actually that's not what is happening. People are asking op to consider autism or neuro diversity.

[Shehasadiamondinthesky]

My ex husband the same. I was so exhausted after 20 years of this shit divorce came as a blessed relief. Now my home is peaceful and quiet and I don't feel like I'm losing my mind.
How long can you live like this?

[Desperadoo]

Oh wow @CharityDingle I could relate to almost every bullet point in that OP 😔.

I'll take some time to read it thoroughly later.

Thank you.

[CharityDingle]

@Desperadoo

Oh wow *@CharityDingle* I could relate to almost every bullet point in that OP 😔.

I'll take some time to read it thoroughly later.

Thank you.

You're welcome

[rosabug]

May be passive aggressive:

What is common in these type of relationships that one partner is made to express the anger the other cannot express. Things like not 'hearing', convenient 'forgetting'. Doing things badly.

lynnenamka.com/anger-management/anger-management-articles/the-boomerang-relationship/

[Desperadoo]

I think there is some passive aggressive behaviour going on. Also a resistance of general happiness too.

I've reflected a lot this week and even back to our first ever holiday together when he stayed in the apartment during the day time sleeping whilst I lounged around the pool with cocktails on my own. He seems to resist any happy behaviours that form connection, unless he's drunk. I think there is a lot of self sabotage going on and has been for much of his life. He didn't even start dating until he was 28.

I didn't know half of this until we married. He was so kind and caring in the beginning that I ignored that sabotaging behaviours although I felt confused over the signals of him wanting to arrange dates with me and asking me to move in.

He finds it easier to accept a shit situation than try to make it better.

[Okokokbear]

Your recent update reminded me of my sisters husband. He's a miserable fuck and he will do stuff that seems to actively deprive him of joy. There relationships isn't great tbh. I feel its like punishing her somehow. That him being happy and enjoying family life would make things nicer for her so he resists.

Also what is he like at work? I assume people don't need to shout to get him to listen there?

How does he manage in life in general?

[billy1966]

OP,

This is who he is.

Unfortunately like many women you ignored niggles and married him anyway.

You are now paying an awful price.

He's awful.
End of.

You are never going to be happy with him.

You are offering up your MH by staying with him.

It doesn't sound as if he likes you, not to mind love.

In your situation use the bit of energy you have to focus on getting out of this utterly miserable situation.

First start detaching.
Just pull away.
Stop killing yourself doing it all.
Do the minimum.
Stop doing anything at all for him.
Stop laundry and cooking.
Let him get on.
Just tell him you need to reduce your work load.
Do the minimum.
Look at your finances.
Reach out honestly for support.
Tell those that care about you that you are trying to get away.

What are your family like?

[sadie9]

There's acting out going on from both sides. You both like being dramatic and the centre of attention. Why did you not get off the sofa and quietly move elsewhere if him and the kids were enjoying a game on it?
You really do not need to shout. It's not a deafness issue.
Your kids are witnessing two adults roaring at each other. Now you are wearing sunglasses inside. People will surely notice that. It's much more noticeable than some red eyes. You are using the sunglasses to do the expressing for you.
That is acting out how you feel rather than processing it and expressing it.

You go from 0 to 100% in the blink of an eye. You have a role in this yourself. I'm not saying he's not as thick and oblivious as mince. I'm saying it's a 2 way dynamic.
And you are choosing to shout at him because it's more important for you to get his attention than it is to protect your kids from seeing their parents braying at each other like a pair of mules.
Tough question when the kids were playing on the sofa, was there a part of you that was jealous of the fun they were having with him?

[Desperadoo]

"That him being happy and enjoying family life would make things nicer for her so he resists."

I feel this is a massive part of it @Okokokbear 😢

Is your sister trying to get out?

At work he wants to please everyone, the same with his group of friends. He doesn't get a say in any of the plans the group make together and he goes along with everything. My SIL once compared him to q sheep 😔.

I think he rebels at home because he's so busy trying to please everyone else.

I did move from the sofa @sadie9. The play started after I'd already been sitting there writing the list. I asked DH to stop lunging DC towards me first, not particularly unreasonable.

The sunglasses are a result of migraines which I get when I've been crying. Have done since I was young. I guess I could have been less dramatic and not worn the sunglasses and struggled more throughout the day so not to confuse DCs 🙄

[NotAllMeBeer]

You need to leave. My DH was like this. The constant negation, being constantly invisible, it destroyed me and sounds like he is destroying you It will never get better.

He finds it easier to accept a shit situation than try to make it better
This describes was my H was like so well! An excellent summary.

[Desperadoo]

@notallmebeer how did your ex DH take it when you finally decided to leave him?

How are things now? Do you have DCs? X

[MrsGogolsGumbo]

Search for the screaming banshee thread on here @Desperadoo and google the boomerang relationship and passive aggression.

It's horrible to live with and wears you down. I left, no children though.

[CharityDingle]

@MrsGogolsGumbo

Search for the screaming banshee thread on here *@Desperadoo* and google the boomerang relationship and passive aggression.

It's horrible to live with and wears you down. I left, no children though.

I linked the angry banshee thread, above. It was what I thought of as soon as I read the OP.

[NettleTea]

@HosannainExcelSheets it is absolutely not true that you cannot parent or be in a relationship with someone with PDA

Thats awful.

I have PDA and my daughter too.

PDA is not necessarily a 'thing' in itself. Its a behaviour description for when the anxiety driven behaviour gets to the point of meltdown.

My daughter has been diagnosed by the Elizabeth Newson centre - the specialist PDA centre, as well as having a diagnosis through a private psychologist.

It is an anxiety driven demand avoidance. If you are given autonomy and are able to take steps to reduce/control the environment, the demand avoidance reduces. If you are given the tools to understand your triggers, to help put things in place to reduce stuff that may send you over the edge, tools to help with emotional language and recognising signs within the body when the first inklings of stress start to kick in, and to learn how to self sooth, when to step outside, etc, then the anxiety can be reduced and the avoidance need not take over.

many children do not have those skills, and so life is one huge long struggle of avoidant behaviour. Lots of people dont take that diagnosis and then learn how to teach their kids how to help themselves. Or they dont parent in a way that reduces demands on them, and the behaviour remains. With help and support many children who may be diagnosed PDA as a child, with still have those demand avoidance traits when they are older, but they wont be the driving force of their autism.

I have a long term relationship. It doesnt look like your 'average' relationship because my partner also has ASD and we dont live in the same household, but its survived 20 years and is fulfilling and supportive of everyones needs. Im a bloody good parent. My dogged determination and obsessional behaviour is the very thing that has fought for the help my children needed and, although Ive had to make sure things like all bills are paid by direct debit so that I dont get a notice through the door (which could send me in a tailspin) I would say as a family we have far more self awareness than most other families.

As to the OPs situation. Well it doesnt sound healthy. It could well be that autism is at the bottom of it, and a child growing up without diagnosis and the right kind of support can find behavioural traits that meet their needs, be those positive or negative. Our psychologist discussed how many people used to say that PDA in children led to personality disorders in adults, but he felt that simply was not true in the strictest sense. With support a PDA child will grow to be an autistic adult with a tendancy towards demand avoidance when anxiety levels get too high - and demands can, in themselves, cause anxiety. But a child with autism/PDA who gets no support is traumatised simply by living in a world where everything is completely overwhelming, and leads to behavioural traits which are the best they can do in order to survive and get their needs met. Its not the PDA that leads to a PD - its the lack of support.

However, whatever the underlying cause, the result is that you are unable to live with him.

[Okokokbear]

@Desperadoo

She's not actively trying to leave which I find hard. She has a 14 month old and a pre school age child. Things were shit for he before the second child but she had another as she wanted 2. I say this to describe it as an ongoing situation not something new. She's said though she wonders if they will stay together long term.

He always says to her he makes loads of compromises for her but really from any outsiders point of view he doesn't. He is grumpy and awkward. He seems to purposefully make things difficult for her. So various things you said rang true for me. He also doesn't really see the point in doing things for fun even for himself. So definitely doesn't understand why she does things she enjoys. He's just a joyless fuck.