He doesn't pay attention unless I shout

[Desperadoo]

Please be kind.
I'm already feeling volatile about this and loathe myself for the way I'm behaving.

DH doesn't listen to me unless I'm shouting at him. He literally pays no attention. He doesn't remember conversations we've had, says "ok" to my requests but doesn't follow through or just blatantly ignores me.

There was a situation last week whereby he had asked me to arrange something for him. I did it, but he criticised the way I'd done it. I tried explaining that he hadn't communicated specifically what he needed from me, but he couldn't grasp what I was saying at all and I ended up shouting to get him to listen. I feel invisible unless I'm shouting.

I asked him specifically and calmly to stop lunging the children at me when they were playing "flying" on the sofa. I had a pen in my hand and was trying to write a shopping list. The pen almost poked DC in the eye so I requested he stop. He then did it again and the pen poked DC in the eye. I shouted angrily at him and found myself repeating "why do I need to shout to be listened to?!"

Then I've specifically asked him to take DCs out on a Sunday morning for an hour or 2 so that I can clean the house. I'm not asking him to do any cleaning, just take them out and I will do it. He would usually take them swimming at this time pre lockdown so it's when I get the cleaning done. I don't mind doing it provided I have the space to.We've had several conversations around this, reminders etc. He always nods away. We are in a bubble with his Mother, so he has somewhere to take them even if the weather is bad.
Yesterday, after cleaning upstairs, I came downstairs and the house was a tip, I asked him to tidy up so I could clean assuming he would be taking DCs out as usual (they are very small so cause more mess as I'm cleaning and it becomes an impossible task, hence him needing to take them out). I went for a shower instead believing he was tidying and getting them ready to leave the house, came back downstairs and the house was even more of a tip and he proclaimed "we're not going out today."

I found myself reminding him of the copious amount of conversations we've had around this and he glazed over as if they'd never happened. He then said that he would clean and watch DCs at the same time, no big deal. Completely missing the point that Sunday mornings are my time to get a bit of space and quiet to do a few jobs. I even had to use the analogy of me keeping DCs away from his office so that he can work during the week and that I needed the same from him on a Sunday morning for 2 hours.

He just came at me with counter arguments. I lost my temper and shouted in his face. I felt like my head was going to explode as he failed to listen to anything I was saying despite all the conversations we've had around this. I ended up crying and going out for 4 hours on my own to calm down. I've been up most of the night feeling ashamed of myself for losing my temper so much recently. On the other hand, this man just does not take in anything I'm saying unless I'm shouting. This isn't who I want to be.

In general life, he appears to need a lot of sensory stimulation. He's extremely loud himself, always has big bright lights on, loud music, makes big movements. I'm starting to wonder if small sounds, calm requests just have no impact on him, like he just can't hear them. I'm starting to wonder if he has a sensory problem? He would also do what I would describe as 'stimming' so I believe there could be a problem.

I've found that the only way I can avoid getting so angry with him is complete emotional distance from him and me treating him as I would an employee, dishing out regular black and white instructions and sharing the DCs in seperate time slots where we're not around each other. This isn't the way I want to live at all.

His parents tell me that he's never been much of a communicator. I feel I'm communicating very clearly but still not getting my needs met. I'm worried that I'm losing my mind sometimes. How do I relate to and navigate life with someone who follows their own unspoken agenda without much thought for much else?

[RuledbyASD]

[quote DameJackieWeaver]@Twisique

Reported your post for ableism.

Being a selfish twat does not make her husband have Asperger’s. But given the number of times observations like this are made on MN, it’s no surprise to see such ableism rear its ugly head yet again.[/quote]
How on earth is directing an OP to a thread called 'Married to men with Aspergers' - ableist? Whether you think the title is ableist or not, is irrelevant as Twisique did NOT name that thread - just directed OP to it.

Thankfully it appears MNHQ agree with me too!

[DameJackieWeaver]

How do you think people are diagnosed with autism, if no one is ever allowed to wonder if it's a possibility?

You get a professional diagnosis, just as you would if you suspected cancer, or covid, or depression.

Why do people think autism is easy to diagnose? It is not - especially as most of the traits can be seen in other conditions.

And of the most common myths trotted out is “lack of empathy”. We typically have affective empathy, we typically don’t have cognitive empathy. It’s is incredibly important that this is understood.

www.bbc.com/future/article/20151006-its-time-we-dispelled-these-myths-about-autism

[Oblomov21]

DameJackie and Hosanna seem particularly vexed at my suggestions.
Your instruction of 'please don't' is an absolute cheek.

And yes, I am well aware of the similarities and cross overs of AS,ASD, ADHD, and other variants. Thank you very much.

[picklemewalnuts]

I think I know what you mean. I don't think you know what I mean.

[Oblomov21]

And I never claimed to be an expert.
But seeing as my own son is diagnosed AS, and yes AS rather than ASD, I have read.
And was only trying to help OP.

[Oblomov21]

Actually. Sorry. I kind of now wish I hadn't posted.

[DameJackieWeaver]

oblomov

Posts like yours demonstrate the ignorance around the condition and I want to flag it. Ableism alive, well and condoned on MN But you don’t change a narrative by ignoring it.

[SurrealSea]

How do I relate to and navigate life with someone who follows their own unspoken agenda?

I recognise this OP, the ignored agreements, however reasonable or basic, the shouting, and the feeling like you’re going mad. Also the “stimming” thing, though I’d never heard of that one before.

This is my 19 year old son. He can be fine at times but, because of the behaviours you describe, the last 5 years have been tough. He will be moving out in the Summer I’ve decided. I almost pity the poor girl he finds (assuming he does). It’s a very stressful way to live, and hard for an outsider to understand as many things seem normal especially when they are in a social “effort” mood. It is exactly as you say, they seem to have their own rules and ideas and agenda, and will mostly ignore even the most basic requests of others, unless that person goes batshit. Though in my case going batshit also creates a refusal to do something because I haven’t asked nicely! When he was 15 I asked him once to not throw a pencil at the cat after he’d hit her with it. So he picked up the pencil and threw it at the cat again. Just like your sofa saga. I do think some form of autism is involved - but believe there are different kinds and aspects and so not everyone will be the same.

I think you should either accept or separate. He will not change. As he is driving you mad, I don’t see how there is any alternative but to separate.

[Wanderlusto]

@Desperadoo

I've looked at the thread *@twisique* I see some similarities. My own father was undiagnosed autsitic and would deny my sense of reality a lot.

I thought I'd consciously chosen someone much different 😪

So do narcissists. Deny peoples sense of reality, I mean. It's called gaslighting and is an abuser tactic. I would not be so quick to jump to 'autism'.

[Oblomov21]

Dame, I really resent that comment. I don't think I'm ignorant about it.

[Mintjulia]

OP, does your dh use a phone based calendar? Have you tried putting a reminder in his calendar that say 'Take dcs to MIL for 2 hours so Desperadoo can clean the house'. Make it two hours long. Add two 15 minute reminders with audible alarms. Then it's in a form he uses successfully all week. Can't say he forgot. Be very specific about what he has to do.

If that doesn't work, go out on a Monday and leave the dcs to hassle him while he's trying to work. When he gets frustrated, explain that he did the same to you at the weekend, and it isn't fun.

[Desperadoo]

Can I make a plea to MN?
Please don't delete this thread.
I've had threads before around DH and MIL potentially being autistic and they get wiped off when it's reported by those who take offence.

This thread is the only support I have at the moment and I'm feeling extremely low. Removing it would be more harmful to me right now than anyone who takes offence.

[Desperadoo]

@mintjulia we tried that.

When there was a clash once and he wanted to go to the pub, he told me he'd forgotten to check the calender. His friend was visiting from America so I looked like the twat who wouldn't let him go. He went anyway and I cancelled my thing, despite it being on the calendar first and him not putting his thing on.

I gave up after that.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Desparadoo

How does this man present himself to people in the outside world or amongst work colleagues?. Does he for instance have many friends?. How does he communicate his needs?.

You have a choice re this man, your children do not. Would you want them to model this sort of relationship you have as adults?. No you would not. Regardless of why he is the way he is you cannot carry on like you are because all your kids will remember is you as their mum shouting at their dad. This is who he is and he does this because he can. It on some level also works out for him.

I would consider counselling on your own as well as further looking into separation.

[Mintjulia]

All I can say, as an autistic woman, is that I sometimes don't realise what someone wants me to do because they haven't specifically asked. They've just assumed I get it, when I don't. Requests need to be detailed.
But if he's ignoring a specific timed reminder, then I'd say he's just decided he isn't going to help and is being a selfish arse.

Not that that's particularly helpful. Sorry OP.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Desparadoo

re your comment:-
"When there was a clash once and he wanted to go to the pub, he told me he'd forgotten to check the calender. His friend was visiting from America so I looked like the twat who wouldn't let him go. He went anyway and I cancelled my thing, despite it being on the calendar first and him not putting his thing on.

I gave up after that"

And that was his intention all the way along, you cancelling your thing so he could meet his friend (with you caring for his children and house at the same time). Such a deliberate move on his part is a nasty form of male misogyny. He really does not care about you at all does he?.

We learn about relationships as well first and foremost from our parents, what did yours teach you?.

[PicsInRed]

@Desperadoo

Can I make a plea to MN?
Please don't delete this thread.
I've had threads before around DH and MIL potentially being autistic and they get wiped off when it's reported by those who take offence.

This thread is the only support I have at the moment and I'm feeling extremely low. Removing it would be more harmful to me right now than anyone who takes offence.

Does this resonate, OP?

Pathological demand avoidance:
www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/diagnosis/pda

It could help you understand. However, I would urge you to leave for you own mental health. You need to put the oxygen mask on yourself. If you want to (and you are under no obligation) you can support him from afar.

[PicsInRed]

I would also point out that whilst being autistic doesnt equal abusive, an autistic man could happen to also at the same time be abusive (as he could also at the same time have blue eyes or black hair).

Is it possible that he's autistic, but is also abusive?

[billy1966]

OP,

It reads like you are in hell and your poor children are in the middle of a toxic environment.

Your MH is suffering badly.

Can you make plans to separate?
Can you look at your options?

This doesn't sound as if it is recoverable.

You need to look at your options.

It really sounds like an awful situation.

Reach out IRL to those who can help and support you.

[HosannainExcelSheets]

@Oblomov21

Actually. Sorry. I kind of now wish I hadn't posted.

You can ask for your posts to be removed if you now regret their content.

[TooManyMonkees]

PicsInRed re. Pathological Demand Avoidance. I had thought of that myself. Its like a subset of autism, where the person with it finds it difficult, and often refuses, to comply with the "demands" of life, however everyday they may be, even brushing their teeth.

From the sounds of your story, I think you need to make plans to separate. He is who he is, and for the whole thing to bring you to this state of mind, means you must do what is best for your menthal health. You can still be friends and co-parents. Though because of his issues around refusing and being unable to respond to demands, you will probably be doing most of the parenting by yourself. But you can start your life again.

[Hollanda40]

I feel like I could have written this thread.

My husband is identical.

Case in point:

I get 30 minutes before I have to pick DD up from school. Time for me to go to the shop and pick up any urgent supplies eg bread, cheese etc. I asked DH if we needed anything as it was snowing/freezing and I didn't want to leave the house when I got in. Fair dues. He said we needed tobacco, eggs etc. He WFH and therefore knows what we need so I can pick up on my way home from work.

I get home and say ooh quite fancy jacket potatoes and cheese for tea.

DH: We don't have a huge amount of cheese left. We could do with bread too.

Erm I said why didn't you tell me on the phone?

DH: I didn't know.

Obviously he did or wouldn't have mentioned it so quickly. So I had to go out in the cold again to the shop.

It's so frustrating!!!!!

If I shout I'm the one out of line. But honestly it's so hard not to!!!!!!!!! :(

[Thebumblingdark]

Does he care that you are upset by this? Does he try to make amends in any way? (Actions not words).

[Desperadoo]

I've long considered PDA.
I see it regularly in clients in my field of work.
I've long given up on trying to work with him, trying to get him to seek help or a diagnosis. I know that I'm at a point where I've personally been pushed too far by his behaviour, whatever is causing it.

[HosannainExcelSheets]

@Desperadoo

I've long considered PDA.
I see it regularly in clients in my field of work.
I've long given up on trying to work with him, trying to get him to seek help or a diagnosis. I know that I'm at a point where I've personally been pushed too far by his behaviour, whatever is causing it.

Then you're ready to leave. You know you will be happier without him.

You just need to decide how. I got to the point where my ex had said he'd leave 3 times and refused to go when the day arrived. So I just packed up with the DC and left.

Ultimately, DC and I are back in the family home and DH finally left it. But it took months.