Money arguments - am I right to feel hard done by?

[User1336468]

My other half and I are always arguing about money. We each think we are hard done by.

So I thought I'd lay the facts in front of a mumsnet jury to see what you think.

My spouse D and I are married, with 2 boys, 7 and 3.

I have a normal office job, and earn about 80k. D has a small business, with a turnover of around 80k.

The eldest is in school and the youngest is in nursery 3 days a week, with a nanny for part of the other 2 days, and D fills the gaps.

I sometimes do the odd dropoff, and get back from work in time to help with bathtime and do bedtime.

I pay for:

all childcare, nanny, babysitting - 750 pm
all holidays - average 650 pm (that's only 2 holidays per year)
all going out for dinner, cinema - 240 pm
all car servicing etc - 120pm
house bills (inc food) - I pay about 1400 per month and D about 450

D handles school runs, cooking, tidying, organising school uniform, buying presents for children's parties, organising things to do on the weekend, and so on.

D also has a hobby / sport / obsession, which takes up a good deal of time and money.

Due to the nature of the business and the sport, it's difficult to know how much the latter is costing. Think of a motorsport enthusiast who also owns a garage. If they use the garage staff, supplies, and tools etc to maintain their fleet of racing cars, it's difficult to separate legitimate business costs from motorsport costs. However, D has estimated it as about £2k per month.

My gripe is that every penny of my £4500 salary is accounted for every month, with almost none left to spend on myself or save. I'm always in the red by the 15th. D on the other hand, spends an unknown amount (but probably around 2k) on the aforementioned sport, £450 on house bills, and then has none left to pay for anything else.

Am I right to feel hard done by?

[Robin2323]

Has op left?

[C0untDucku1a]

Nothing new to add. Turnover is not salary. Massively over spending for your take home pay. Why are you doing so little at home?

[Ilikethisone]

I wonder what people would have thought if OP wrote

'I earn 80k a year. D earns 20k (I think 20k based on the fact that are paying about a quarter of OP on household bills). D owns a hobby business that turns over 80k. D has employees as well.

The business also allows d to do all the school runs, everything at home. The youngest is in nursery and we have a nanny to enable d to work.

I am fed up of paying for the majority of the costs for the house. I have, approx £1300 spare once bills and savings for luxuries are taken care of. I think D should be paying more towards the house, so I can have more spare money.

I think most people would be asking if the OP would prefer D to be employed and op pick up half the work at home.

If OP was married to someone who only earned 20k no one would be saying they are ripping the OP off. They would be saying D has stunted their career to enable the OP to earn more while not having to take any responsibility for the children or home.

Given the OP has given turnover not profit or wage, I think they know they are being unreasonable but just want everyone to side with them.

[category12]

Op just seagulled anyway.

[User1336468]

Thanks for all the responses. Just to clarify a few points:
Firstly, turnover of 80k is very different to profit. D's last tax return gave a taxable income of around 6k (since so many expenses are channeled through the business - including the sport).
Secondly, I realise I am earning well: when I say "normal" office job, I mean 9-5 - as opposed to D's business which is not 9-5 by any stretch.
Thirdly, I spared you a complete breakdown of my monthly costs: the ones I listed are the bulk of the shared costs, and the rest goes on things like my commuting costs, eating out (not often), etc.
Fourthly, the cost of £2k per month is a guess - it could be much less.

I suppose what it comes down to is two questions:

1. Even though D does a lot more childcare than I do, almost all the domestic chores, works hard, and earns very little, is it fair to split everything 50:50 ? including childcare?
   
2. Is it fair for D to spend money on an expensive sport, when we are struggling to keep up with the household costs?

[category12]

IMO, What's fair is to be open about both your incomes with each other. Go through all your outgoings.
Household outgoings would include childcare and groceries, etc.
Decide what is needed for savings and leisure.
And pay in proportion to your incomes, which should leave you both with personal spends.

If the hobby is genuinely leaving you as a family short, then it should be reviewed. But if your partner would choose the hobby over holidays and leisure activities, there's obviously going to be a friction there, because I'm not sure that you should get to choose how to spend the leisure oney.

[category12]

money

[Bobbybobbins]

Why don't you just have a joint account where all household expenses are paid from and then a frank discussion about spending on non essentials, eg hobbies/nights out/clothes shopping etc?

[MoMandaS]

We are in a similar situation in that my DH earns a similar amount to you and my income is variable (self employed, do all the school runs etc). The way we work it is, every month he puts a set amount (the bulk of his income) into the joint account to cover bills and household management costs and an equal amount of what's left into our personal accounts. The money I make goes into the joint account or savings, depending on how healthy the joint account is looking. So we each know how much we have to spend on hobbies etc and neither of us resents the other.

[DoctorAllcome]

“D's last tax return gave a taxable income of around 6k (since so many expenses are channeled through the business - including the sport).”

It’s not really a hobby cost if it is legally treated as a business cost.

I do think, however, that you are right to question the utility of D running a business that only contributes £6k/yr to household income when childcare is costing £9k/yr. You’d be better off as a couple if D did not have the business. Unless The business will start paying out more in the long run. I know startups tend to not pay out much the first five years or so because the revenues are being invested back into the business. But D should have some business plan or projections of future earnings that would include that £6k/yr increasing. At least to £12k/yr so that it’s not a loss when looking at childcare costs.

I don’t ascribe to the view that each partner must contribute 50% for it to be equal. I think paid/unpaid work needs to be considered when looking at whether the partnership is equal. Contributions financially need to be proportional to earnings and both partners should have about the same £ disposable cash as well. But honestly, it’s what you both think works for you that matters not how I or others make things work with our partners.

[Ilikethisone]

1. Even though D does a lot more childcare than I do, almost all the domestic chores, works hard, and earns very little, is it fair to split everything 50:50 ? including childcare?

No, its nor fair to split bills 50:50. D earns alot less. Maybe you need to do more. I earn well and work 8-5. Still manage to do jobs at home. How do you think single larenta who work full time cope?

1. Is it fair for D to spend money on an expensive sport, when we are struggling to keep up with the household costs?
   

If she gives up her hobby, how much more cash will she be bringing home.

Given the fact thats it also D job, not a hobby, enables you to do sweet FA in regards to childcare and household chores. I would consider what would happen if she decides to become employed.

[User1336468]

D does the lion's share of chores and childcare, but for @Ilikethisone to say that I "do sweet FA" is not fair. At the weekend I do plenty of both, and I do bedtime most days.

Looking at childcare specifically, I counted up the hours. The childcare I pay for, and the childcare I do, between them make up 60% of all hours.

If D were to give up the hobby, the best guess is that would save 1-2k per month.

And if D were to get a 9-5 job, then we could easily pay for the extra few hours of childcare required with some of that money.

[Ilikethisone]

Even though D does a lot more childcare than I do, almost all the domestic chores, works hard, and earns very little, is it fair to split everything 50:50 ? including childcare?

You said this. D does almost ALL domestic chores. And you said a lot more childcare than you.

If d does almost all of house work and more childcare than you, you do FA.

You paying for childcare does nor go into the pot of your time with the kids. Dont be ridiculous.

[C0untDucku1a]

I can’t believe youre including nanny and other childcare as what you do hilarious.

[Chitarra]

In answer to your specific questions above, I think the answer to 1 is yes but the answer to 2 is no.

In other words this arrangement would be fine if D didn't have such an expensive hobby. That's the issue here IMO.

[AnneLovesGilbert]

Why is she feeling hard done by?

[category12]

It's ridiculous to say that the person earning 6K should contribute 50/50 to household expenses with the person who earns 80K. How would that even work? The person earning 6K would be plunged into a spiral of debt and the person earning 80K would be rolling in it.

You're married, you pool resources. There's value in the unpaid work of childcare and housework that D does. It enables the career of the OP and their family life.

[Leaveitout]

Proof money can't buy you happiness

I don't want to be mean but money isn't the issue here it's the state of your relationship. You're clearly unable to communicate with one another and seem to argue. You are resentful of one another.
Do you even love him?

[Leaveitout]

Sorry what is his hobby?

[MrsGrindah]

Civil service can mean normal office job..my next pay band would be around 80k so I don’t know why people are so disbelieving

[Leaveitout]

... Let's all show off how much money we have

[Pringlemunchers]

Running a business with 80k turnover 6k profit ????.?

[Mixingitall]

Fundamentally you both need to start thinking differently, all money in a marriage is essentially shared, it’s one pot. Division of labour will rarely be equal, at best it can be balanced.

Would a joint bank account work better?

[Techway]

I think you need to look at the monthly budget from essential costs first, house, utilities, food, cars etc. Then look discretionary costs such as holidays and going outs, each of you should have some personal spending.

Is D saving towards a pension? As that should be included. Then you need to decide as a couple what balance you want for your children.

Is the hobby horse related?

[WombOfOnesOwn]

This "hobby" isn't just costing 2k/month.

Because D is pretending it's a "business" even though the earnings are below minimum wage, it's also costing you all of D's potential income if D were to do something else.

Assuming D has normal earning potential, you're probably spending 4-6k every month on this hobby. Since D could otherwise be doing the childcare, even if D does not have the ability to earn in a traditional job setting, it's still costing you an additional 750 every month to have D doing this business.

What a time and money suck it sounds like. Literally half your household's potential is being drained into a pretend business that D is using to pretend D is working while actually spending all D's time on D's hobby.