Money arguments - am I right to feel hard done by?

[User1336468]

My other half and I are always arguing about money. We each think we are hard done by.

So I thought I'd lay the facts in front of a mumsnet jury to see what you think.

My spouse D and I are married, with 2 boys, 7 and 3.

I have a normal office job, and earn about 80k. D has a small business, with a turnover of around 80k.

The eldest is in school and the youngest is in nursery 3 days a week, with a nanny for part of the other 2 days, and D fills the gaps.

I sometimes do the odd dropoff, and get back from work in time to help with bathtime and do bedtime.

I pay for:

all childcare, nanny, babysitting - 750 pm
all holidays - average 650 pm (that's only 2 holidays per year)
all going out for dinner, cinema - 240 pm
all car servicing etc - 120pm
house bills (inc food) - I pay about 1400 per month and D about 450

D handles school runs, cooking, tidying, organising school uniform, buying presents for children's parties, organising things to do on the weekend, and so on.

D also has a hobby / sport / obsession, which takes up a good deal of time and money.

Due to the nature of the business and the sport, it's difficult to know how much the latter is costing. Think of a motorsport enthusiast who also owns a garage. If they use the garage staff, supplies, and tools etc to maintain their fleet of racing cars, it's difficult to separate legitimate business costs from motorsport costs. However, D has estimated it as about £2k per month.

My gripe is that every penny of my £4500 salary is accounted for every month, with almost none left to spend on myself or save. I'm always in the red by the 15th. D on the other hand, spends an unknown amount (but probably around 2k) on the aforementioned sport, £450 on house bills, and then has none left to pay for anything else.

Am I right to feel hard done by?

[calmalamadown]

Turnover doesn't really tell us anything, he could have expenses or £1k or £79k!

[SesameOil]

It would be legitimate to consider whether the amount of time and money being invested in D's business is a cost the family can afford. If it's a short term thing for a couple of years or whatever then it could well be, sometimes these things are an investment, but if this is just how it's going to be then 6k profit is not colossal. That being said, if D were to find other work that brings in more money given the amount of time they invest in it, you will need to accept that this could very well mean you doing more household stuff, particularly as such work wouldn't necessarily be school hours.

[LionelRitchieStoleMyNotebook]

Is @fortherecord1 D?

[zsazsajuju]

I don’t think it’s fair for one person in a partnership to contribute so little financially unless both parties are agreed (eg that they stay home with the kids). In this case it doesn’t sound like they are. 6k is not a viable business (but apparently it also pays school fees although I’m not sure how that’s a business expense!)

[hellsbellsmelons]

You have a 3 YO at school?

[TeacupDrama]

your bills total 3610 per month 450 is more than 10% if he truly has only 8k but if in fact he spends 2k a month on hobby his actual income per year is 32K ( 24K somehow not counting as income but available to spend!!!)
therefore should be paying 40% of bills
no-one can know if this is fair until hobby cost is separated from business cost

[TeacupDrama]

despite the disparagement in incomes everyone should have the same fun money
however paying bills needs to come before fun money
However the most important thing is that the hobby and business must be separated
It seems to be a hobby that earns a bit of money on the side rahter than a business that is also the field of the hobby
taking the mechanic illustration if a mechanic owns a garage and has a hobby of banger racing at weekends, using the garage to mend banger by using vehicle ramp out of hours is fine but parts etc must not be ordered through the business or from same bank account
you can't run a self employed business from a joint account as it is too hard to differentiate which is business income which is spouse wage what is birthday money from mum
So you need a business account which then pays a salary to the partner out of which he pays a share of bills
if he wants to spend his share of fun money on hobby rather than holidays or eating out maybe that's Ok but it's not fair to deprive kids and you of these things for his hobby
you need a franker discussion re finances and certainly the turnover to profit ratio is not good, if the profit margin is slight it is normally because it is high volume making 10% on 1000 sales a week is different to making 50% on 10 sales per week
if you are selling antiques 10% even 25% profit would almost certainly leave you struggling due to the fact that you don't sells hundreds of items a week, but if you drop ship t-shirts a 2% profit on thousands of items is fine
if self employed for the hours he puts in, is it making enough profit to pay himself even the minimum wage?
if one person earns 8k and the other 80K the 8k person should be paying about 10% of the bills

[hellsbellsmelons]

I still stand by what I say in how you fairly share out the monthly incomes.
It is how a lot households function and is the fairest way of doing it.
The unpaid childcare and work around the house totals about £500pw I wish 'women' at home could claim this and the 'man of the house' listen. It's just expected from us though!

[hellsbellsmelons]

WTAF????
Turns over 80K with 6K profit.
What god awful business is this?
THIS is not good enough.
It's basically costing you money for him to run his own business.
He needs to stop the madness right now!
Stop subsidising him and his ridiculously expensive hobby.
You pool all resources.
You pay out what you need to.
To put another % into a savings account for holidays etc.....
You split the rest for 'fun' money!
You are bankrolling him.
He needs to step up!
(and I also laughed at 'normal office job' at 80K)
Nicely done, but don't let him continue to take the piss out of you!

[fortherecord1]

The "hobby" is a business. It just does not fit what OP defines to be a "proper job".
The "hobby/sport/obsession" was a way of life and I was extremely good at the sport involved before children (national level)
The "hobby" pays the school fees (OP did not mention that) and maintaining a profile in said sport/industry in general is important to that
The unpaid childcare and work around the house totals about £500pw.

[WombOfOnesOwn]

This "hobby" isn't just costing 2k/month.

Because D is pretending it's a "business" even though the earnings are below minimum wage, it's also costing you all of D's potential income if D were to do something else.

Assuming D has normal earning potential, you're probably spending 4-6k every month on this hobby. Since D could otherwise be doing the childcare, even if D does not have the ability to earn in a traditional job setting, it's still costing you an additional 750 every month to have D doing this business.

What a time and money suck it sounds like. Literally half your household's potential is being drained into a pretend business that D is using to pretend D is working while actually spending all D's time on D's hobby.

[Techway]

I think you need to look at the monthly budget from essential costs first, house, utilities, food, cars etc. Then look discretionary costs such as holidays and going outs, each of you should have some personal spending.

Is D saving towards a pension? As that should be included. Then you need to decide as a couple what balance you want for your children.

Is the hobby horse related?

[Mixingitall]

Fundamentally you both need to start thinking differently, all money in a marriage is essentially shared, it’s one pot. Division of labour will rarely be equal, at best it can be balanced.

Would a joint bank account work better?

[Pringlemunchers]

Running a business with 80k turnover 6k profit ????.?

[Leaveitout]

... Let's all show off how much money we have

[MrsGrindah]

Civil service can mean normal office job..my next pay band would be around 80k so I don’t know why people are so disbelieving

[Leaveitout]

Sorry what is his hobby?

[Leaveitout]

Proof money can't buy you happiness

I don't want to be mean but money isn't the issue here it's the state of your relationship. You're clearly unable to communicate with one another and seem to argue. You are resentful of one another.
Do you even love him?

[category12]

It's ridiculous to say that the person earning 6K should contribute 50/50 to household expenses with the person who earns 80K. How would that even work? The person earning 6K would be plunged into a spiral of debt and the person earning 80K would be rolling in it.

You're married, you pool resources. There's value in the unpaid work of childcare and housework that D does. It enables the career of the OP and their family life.

[AnneLovesGilbert]

Why is she feeling hard done by?

[Chitarra]

In answer to your specific questions above, I think the answer to 1 is yes but the answer to 2 is no.

In other words this arrangement would be fine if D didn't have such an expensive hobby. That's the issue here IMO.

[C0untDucku1a]

I can’t believe youre including nanny and other childcare as what you do hilarious.

[Ilikethisone]

Even though D does a lot more childcare than I do, almost all the domestic chores, works hard, and earns very little, is it fair to split everything 50:50 ? including childcare?

You said this. D does almost ALL domestic chores. And you said a lot more childcare than you.

If d does almost all of house work and more childcare than you, you do FA.

You paying for childcare does nor go into the pot of your time with the kids. Dont be ridiculous.

[User1336468]

D does the lion's share of chores and childcare, but for @Ilikethisone to say that I "do sweet FA" is not fair. At the weekend I do plenty of both, and I do bedtime most days.

Looking at childcare specifically, I counted up the hours. The childcare I pay for, and the childcare I do, between them make up 60% of all hours.

If D were to give up the hobby, the best guess is that would save 1-2k per month.

And if D were to get a 9-5 job, then we could easily pay for the extra few hours of childcare required with some of that money.

[Ilikethisone]

1. Even though D does a lot more childcare than I do, almost all the domestic chores, works hard, and earns very little, is it fair to split everything 50:50 ? including childcare?

No, its nor fair to split bills 50:50. D earns alot less. Maybe you need to do more. I earn well and work 8-5. Still manage to do jobs at home. How do you think single larenta who work full time cope?

1. Is it fair for D to spend money on an expensive sport, when we are struggling to keep up with the household costs?
   

If she gives up her hobby, how much more cash will she be bringing home.

Given the fact thats it also D job, not a hobby, enables you to do sweet FA in regards to childcare and household chores. I would consider what would happen if she decides to become employed.