Are men generally less confident these days?

[Aggieisback1]

I have met a number of men since divorce 2 years ago. When I was last single in my 20s men all seemed to be full of confidence and not mind knock backs. Maybe it's because 25 years have passed but so so many of the men I've met recently are really quiet and lacking in confidence. I'm also surprised how many 40 & 50 sthg men have never been married. Ironically it is the divorced ones who seem the cockiest and the shy guys low on self esteem. Wonder of anyone else had noticed this?

Wow this thread has gone from "I can't find a shy confident guy" to "men are self absorbed and only interested in surface beauty but won't use moisturiser to make themselves pretty"! This could be part of the problem

I thought there was a trend for men to spend more money on skincare products? There is no evidence where I live. I live in the midlands men look gross up here. I have lived here 9 years and am still amazed how shocking the majority look. Men in other parts of the country don't look nearly as bad.

I've never seen a man or a woman who I've thought "oh your looks would be improved by skincare products".

A decent flattering haircut, good clothes, yes. Some pseudo-scientific over priced over marketed gloop, no.

Ellisandra - I know a few men with skin so dry it's peeling and rough calloused hands when they don't do hard manual work. They would definitely benefit from moisturising their hands.

Clothes, yes. Most men look better in a shirt than a T shirt. I have a friend who goes out on the weekend in an unironed T-shirt. Not a great look.

Yes no better than those with bad breath and barely any teeth.

I'm missing teeth Polly as I don't have the money for implants. It's not something simple to fix like using some hand cream or putting a shirt on.

How much do implants cost?

IIRC Implants can be a couple of grand each.

Really that is such a scandalous price.

I guess they do them in instalments as payment option plans but even so you could spend that on a car!

Yes, so have a bit more sympathy for us toothless people Polly. Mine are at the edges of my mouth. I suppose I would prioritise it if the front teeth were missing.

Speaking for myself, now in my 40s, I feel more confident than I've ever been. I also think women notice me more now. I look young for my age and I'm in good shape. When I was in my 20s they looked right past me. It's kind of odd, in a nice way . Also, although I've been married for well over a decade (and have children) I am quite sure that I'd cope just fine by myself. I know everything I need to know to look after myself and those close to me in all respects, including emotionally. I don't think I'm abnormal in this respect.

On the other hand, I'm doubtlessly less of a wanker than I was when I was 20 (both literally and metaphorically) and I suppose that could come across as reduced confidence, although it isn't.

As for my observations re those around me, I see a huge chasm between what I read people saying on the Internet and what those around me in RL say. The Internet comments are a depressing read: both men and women have unrealistic expectations. I have spent hours reading manosphere forums with horrified fascination. By contrast, in RL I see people making sensible compromises and getting on with their lives. With the exception of a rather odd Trump-admirer (who I suspect spends all his time reading MGTOW blogs) my married male friends and acquaintances muck in and do their share. I don't generally hear them (or my female friends) complaining about their DPs generally, although it sometimes happens.

To be honest, my male friends don't really pay much attention to what it means to be a man: they just get on with their lives. I'm glad about that; it's much healthier to use your efforts to be a good person.

As an aside, where I live it's quite normal for women to do chores traditionally done by men including DIY. As for me: I doubt I've done any of those ones listed.

Some interesting points raised here and i guess the bottom line is as always, all men are different though of course they could be sub grouped. But then thats just the same for women.

I can only speak of myself. I'm male, i have a full time job that pays fine for me. I look after my body,eat the right stuff, keep fit,dont smoke,dont drink to excess,dont do any drugs other than ibuprofen occasionally. I know where the shower is. I know how to work a range of domestic appliances ie cooker,washer,vac etc and im not afraid to use them !

I can do a full range of diy

I can converse on a wide range of subjects. I am a good listener which could lead to me being thought of as "quiet" but to me listening can be often more valueable than speaking. Conversation is a two way thing.

I treat a woman as an equal. If it isnt working we move on,if it is,we enjoy the time together. I dont NEED a woman and i dont need moaning control freaks.

I can live alone equally as well as with a woman.

In the bedroom i love crisp clean sheets and enjoying plesing a woman. I dont rush, i love mutual oral and deep,stasifying love making.

Thats it,,why over complicate matters?

You sound lovely Manchester, but I'm just thinking how odd it'd be if a woman felt the need to announce this sort of thing online...

I know how to work a range of domestic appliances ie cooker,washer,vac etc and im not afraid to use them !

Ditto having clean sheets on her bed and wanting to please her sexual partners. That's just a given, surely?!

Manchester has just written a dating ad by the looks of it.

Gnochi People around you will apply a respectable veneer to thier comments and actions. What they actually think may be completely different to what you hear/observe. The net is unfiltered unlike real life.

Polly agree wholeheartedly about men in the Midlands. Its generally a deprived area though so no money available for grooming sadly.

On the other hand, the Internet is an echo chamber. A good amount of what people say on it is like old-fashioned moaning down at the pub. I agree that it's unfiltered, but in my view that means people think more carefully about their views in RL.

In my view, that's the only explanation for the amount of rubbish online.

I am happy to say, both in RL and on the Internet, that no moisturiser will touch my skin by my choice.

"On the other hand, I'm doubtlessly less of a wanker than I was when I was 20 (both literally and metaphorically)"

Ive always preferred older men and this is/was part of the reason for that.

When i met DH 25 years ago i was 19 and he was 42.

Manchester you do know this aint a dating site right

As for grooming. I currently cant afford a leg wax so it isnt being done and i dont like shaving. It does come down to budget like Gwen is saying. It is a social construct that women are expected to do this although you try telling some men that.

Another vote and plus for men of DHs generation.

"I am happy to say, both in RL and on the Internet, that no moisturiser will touch my skin by my choice."

Too macho are you? Are you also one of those men who refuse to drink half pints because 'men drink pints'?
Moisturiser is as much for health as it is for vanity.

It's the estrogen in the drinking water op.
But seriously, I have a really hard time finding a blokey, confident English bloke. Have dated other nationalities for last 11 years as just find English guys are all looking for mummy figures or, if they do seem confident and decisive, it comes with a side helping of porn-influenced misogyny. They don't seem to really be very grown up or capable of looking after themselves.

Thanks for the comments. Its not really a pseudo Tinder ad. Its just that i hear so much of women complaining of the lazy ways of their men folk that one could be forgiven for thinking that nearly all men were the same !

By the way , i also moisturise, feed the birds,garden and meditate !

AbernathysFringe

What you say is a complaint I've heard elsewhere on the Internet and in RL - and not just in the UK. You will be aware that for the last twenty or so years men - me included of course - have been increasingly encouraged to get in touch with, and show, their sensitive side. They've also been encouraged to look up to strong women. If they're doing so, it's not surprising that they might appear needy to you and other women. However, I suspect you've been dating other women's leavings and so perhaps you should be cautious about generalising too much.

Perhaps they've been worrying too much about what it means to be a man.
cue Kenny Rogers

Gwen

It's way, way down my list of priorities. I have an office job and while I play some sport I don't spend ages in the sun. So, I've never looked at my hands and thought "you need moisturising". My own view is that looking after one's health and looking presentable is important, but I am a bit worried that the obsessive care that many women take over their appearance is starting to be copied by men. There's better things to do with one's time and with one's bank balance; and it's a zero sum game anyway if all other men are tweezing, waxing, taking anabolic steriods and whatnot.

RiseandGrind these same men have money to spend on holidays and cars and hobbies and going out just not on grooming it must be some local thing sadly :( Sometimes I look around in the local supermarket and cannot believe how appalling the local men actually do look, I still notice it after 9 years up here! They also seem to have plenty of cash to waste on umpteen tattoos yeugh ....

Well i had the point i made on this thread beautifully proven on another thread.
Bloke on there is moaning that wife doesnt have sex with him. Then in the next breath saying she doesnt keep herself tidy downstairs.

I was actually talking about leg waxes (above) but my statement about a social construct that men expect certainly applies to this as well.

Which thread is that?

Tbh I think both men and women (but women especially) should relax about their appearance.

I recently returned to London after some years away and noticed firstly how many more waxing/beauty salons their were, and also how overly groomed the women were (and the men too, but not to the same extent).

Shock horror, as you get older your skin loses it's elasticity and some parts of you may go 'a bit south'.