Left H last week but his reaction has completely blindsided me (long winded - sorry)

[AvaLeStrange]

Been together 20 years and have a 12yo DD.

It's always been a rollercoaster relationship, downs marked by him being moody, sulky & uncommunicative. Over the years this has escalated to aggressive and intimidating behaviour (stonewalling, door slamming, throwing things, vigorous 'tidying up'). He can be controlling, disrespectful, critical, anally retentive, rarely interested in engaging with my friends and family...you get the idea. He's incapable of dealing with/communicating negative feelings and basically takes them out on me.

In the interests of balance, when he's 'normal', which can be for months at a time, he's mostly no more annoying than any other bloke - gainfully employed, remembers special occasions, does his bit re home/childcare, decent in bed.

As the years have gone on though, its been harder and harder to get over the bad patches when he returns to his normal self. The last year has been particularly awful. I can count the good times in weeks (and those in single figures), and when he's snapped out of his moods I've been increasingly unable to forgive and forget. His behaviour has also started to impact our DD who is now getting support with anxiety from school and the local youth support service.

So last week, DD and I left. I fully expected him to go 70 shades of apeshit, threaten all sorts and change the locks. Instead he is devastated. He's staying with his parents as can't cope with being in the house alone, has been in touch with the Samaritans, made an appt with GP to ask about some kind of individual counselling/therapy and made a huge list of all the things he wants to change/improve.

We have seen him 3 times since moving out (DD doesn't want to see him alone yet) and whilst I believe he is genuine at least on a superficial level, I'm not convinced his reasons are sound (suspect he is worried about the material side of things and his reputation as much as losing me, not so much DD tbf).

He is also pushing for us to spend time together as a family, and already talking about us going on dates to try and work things out. I'm going along with the former so he and DD can see each other, but dates?!!

I have told him I am open to seeing how things pan out but it will be a long haul and I cannot promise my feelings for him will return, or that I will ever be able to trust him enough to resurrect our marriage. I've made it clear that he will have to get through individual therapy before I'll consider any kind of couples work, if at that point I feel it would be appropriate/beneficial.

I just don't really know where to go from here. I have my doubts that things can be worked out, but there is no reason for me not to wait and see if he can change. I do need to put some boundaries in place in the meantime though for mine and DDs sake. I felt fine for the 3 days post move but have started having panic attacks since seeing him and feel absolutely exhausted afterwards. He tries to be affectionate and is upset and ermotional not just with me but with DD.

Mostly just letting off steam here really, but if anyone has anynwords of wisdom they'd be much appreciated.

[Cary2012]

Yes it is a normal reaction, twenty years with him, you can't just switch off your feelings and emotions. But it will get better. Don't change your mind, he is very predictable. You've done the hard part. Dig deep for some inner strength and keep going. It isn't easy, but you know that it's right. Glad that you will have time to yourself in the next few days, perhaps use it to start the ball rolling re legal/financial stuff.
You've been through a rough patch, if you have him back, you'll go through it again. I have no doubt.

[Mix56]

as pp said "He's busy worrying about himself."

That.....is.....all.

That is all you need to know. He may try to change. but it is self serving
He is who he is. he will revert to form.

The last thing you need to say to him, is now that he is manipulating his parents, ( & now his mother is on to the game) this other group of friends, & attempting to manipulate even them, when he says he will work on changing. proves that it is
irredeemably OVER
Move on, do not continue to pay into his guilt trip, Be happy.

[ExitPursuedByABear]

Nothing to add except good luck and stay strong.

[AvaLeStrange]

He just seems so genuine. I have never seen him in such a state, but then I guess I've never left him before!

I have the majority of legal/financial stuff in hand, aside from actually filing for divorce, although I have the forms printed and reasons drafted and have been seen by the solicitor.

He is going to see the GP about solo counselling for his issues. I am going with him to ensure it is very clear how severe the problem is and will see if I can speak to the GP on my own afterwards.

Have just downloaded 'Why does he do that' and am going to look into the Freedom Programme as I think I need some support getting my head straight about all this too.

I will also be giving him the mother of all bollockings re MILs convo with DD when I've calmed down enough to not actually rip his head off.

[AnyFucker]

You are not detaching

Family days out. Going to counselling with him. Speaking to him about your MIL instead of directly to her. Entering into pointless conversations about how the poor love will manage when he has to face the consequences if his own behaviour.

20 years of entanglements makes it difficult to extricate yourself but what you are doing so far is going to make it much harder.

[AvaLeStrange]

It wasn't planned - I dropped him home (he's staying with his parents) and DD needed the loo. I stayed in the car so was somewhat cornered when MIL came out and stuck her head in the window.

Also didn't witness convo between her and DD - had I done so WW3 probably would have broken out.

Family days out - I'm reluctant and he knows that. Unfortunately DD does still want to see him, but not on her own and there is no one else that can facilitate that. I'm trying to encourage activities where I can be around but not involved iykwim, but its easier said than done.

I do appreciate what you're saying AF, but some of us don't find quite so easy to release our inner badass. As pathetic as it sounds, this is the first time I've ever ended a relationship, so the whole thing is new to me, let alone the added complications of his behaviour, hence the book and the Freedom Programme to help me gain more confidence and the courage of my own convictions.

[Footle]

Thing is you don't sound as if you are ending it. He doesn't have to tell his mother where she gets off ( imagine that conversation- would he say what you want him to say ? ). You have to do that.
Don't go to the doctor with him. You aren't in control of what he says there either. He will improve or further fuck up his own life, all by himself.
Focus on your child.

[Mix56]

Take him to GP, see what he says, do NOT step in & correct. If he plays it down, walk out.
After this, you decide what days/hours he can see DD, maybe a cycle ride, or go swimming, something where they are active & you can sit in the car & read the Bancroft Bible Then do not interact.
Don't respond to his bleating texts, his emails, his calls... he is supposed to be improving himself, that is all you need to know.
The next contact date will have been organised.
Get on with your own life. See how fast he gets angry when he can't guilt you !

BASTA

[ElspethFlashman]

Yeah.....tbh whether he tells the GP the "right" version of events or not, who cares???

Who cares if he goes through with counselling or not? (Hint: he won't)

Your expectation should be that he is a responsible co-parent regardless of what help he is getting privately or not.

[AvaLeStrange]

BASTA?

I love the suggestion of seeing what he says to GP first - will definitely do that.

Am going to spend today sorting out a contact programme

I rarely respond to his calls, emails etc and tbf there haven't been that many. If I need to reply to anything I do it when it suits me, not immediately.

He's away for a few days this week so I'll be getting the remainder of our things from the house, although he's said I can leave them and collect them if I need to at a later date .

[MephistoMarley]

Basta- that's it (Italian)

You need to be absolutely 100% clear with both him and your dd that it's over. You don't want to get back with him, you don't want dates and family days out so stop going along with it out of guilt.
I also don't understand why he can't see your dd with his parents if they live close? Why do you have to do it?

[Emochild]

Ava you will find the freedom program to be an eye opener

My ex sounds similar and when I did the freedom program it was almost as though my ex had the script for our relationship and unfortunately I'd never been given a copy!

Even the breakup followed a script -angry, depression, suicide threats, moving in with his parents because he couldn't bear to be in the house

He promised he would go to the GP/counselling -went once and came home clutching lots of information about bipolar and depression -then told me I should read them as I would recognise a lot of myself!

Your ex is an abussive man child -the longer you take to detach, the longer it will take you and your dd to move on with your lives

I know this is easier said than done but it really needs to be a focused goal -rather than seeing what happens after all the 'what ifs' play out

[Lweji]

Yes to everything before.
He can make his own way to and from contact activities.

Right now he should show he's changed by facilitating the separation, contact, etc. His mother can go to the gp should she wish, or he can write a letter.

He is going away, presumably for work, so he's not that bad or devastated.

Meanwhile whatever he does should be to prove he is capable of unsupervised contact eventually, not get back with you.
Using dd as a pawn should mean an end to contact. At least for a while.
He can use other means.

[Footle]

Mephisto, because his mother is manipulating the child.

[MephistoMarley]

Is it any worse than confusing and distressing 'family days out' though?
Maybe this child doesn't need to have contact with her father for the time being

[Hissy]

Argh, this is painful to watch, let alone live!!

Stop the outings, let him sort out his doctor, programmes etc (he won't!) and even if by some miracle he went, it's still too late, you'll never trust him again.

Basta indeed! Enough!

Now you are free, you are the one who speaks for your dd, the one who takes it up with your STBXMIL

If I were you I'd be straight with her and give her 2 scenarios;

(A) she gets behind you as their mother, and him as their father, stays neutral and does whatever it takes to be a good granny, enjoying the children and being a positive part of their lives

(B) she doesn't. And you and the kids carry on as you are, happy, free and blossoming, without his oppression and control. And without her.

[DoreenLethal]

It wasn't planned - I dropped him home (he's staying with his parents) and DD needed the loo.

Then take her to the nearest supermarket.

To me it all seems very 'staged'. Its his performance to show you how pitiful he is. Stop attending and paying attention to all this - it is all to suck you back in.

[Cary2012]

Let him take himself to the doctor. Certainly don't go in with him, why would you do that? He's an adult, they're his issues. Don't have family days, don't engage unless it is directly about DD contact. Don't ask him how he is, don't respond if he asks you anything. DD obviously wants to see him. Option 1, drop DD at his parents house at an agreed time, they can facilitate. If DD doesn't agree, be with them both, but distant, detached, don't engage unless unavoidable. They both need to know that there is no going back. He is looking for cracks in your resolve and right now you're providing them aplenty. Stuff MIL, she's totally irrelevant, don't engage unless and only about DD and contact. Will it be hard? Yes, very. Will it be easier this way? Absolutely.

[Hissy]

One of the things we were told on the freedom programme was that abusive men will do anything to get you back.

One tactic is that they go to charity shops, buy clothes that are tatty and far too big for them so that it looks like they are losing alarming amounts of weight.

Understand the mindset here. They will go to the nth degree to guilt/hurt you.

[NameChange30]

He is textbook abusive. Don't fall into the trap of believing his manupulative shit about getting help and changing. He won't. You need to disengage and STOP SPENDING TIME WITH HIM! No family days out, no holiday to "reconnect". Limit contact to essential communications about practical arrangements for DD, the house and divorce.

"Have just downloaded 'Why does he do that' and am going to look into the Freedom Programme as I think I need some support getting my head straight about all this too."

These are very good steps. Can I suggest that you also call Women's Aid and ask them and/or your GP about individual counselling for yourself.

[Namechanger2015]

I went through the same when I left my abusive husband. What kept me going was thinking - I'll leave him for now, and if we are still in touch and civil in 5 years or so we can always get remarried. But in the meantime I'll progress with the divorce.

If you can't contemplate leaving him because of his false promises (and they are false) just plough on anyway and keep that option open. Allow him to improve himself and say to yourself you will reconsider in a few years time if you want to.

Fwiw, my ex also said counselling is a load of bollocks and he was not going to pay for it. So he didn't. His choice. A year and half later I can see him for what he was but it's very difficult to leave someone when they suddenly behave differently and promise you the earth. Don't let him back in but keep the option available to you, that will keep you sane and will get you through this difficult bit. I'm thinking of you, you will be fine.

[Hissy]

His behaviour is an act. If he went 7shades of apeshit, he'd give everyone the proof of why you left him.

He is angling for sympathy, so you and your dd don't get any, and you both end up the bad guys...

Trust me.

Abusers don't get angry, they manufacture anger, they plan what they need to use in terms of emotion to get what they want and use it.

Your ex thinks this will all blow over and his victims will be back in the house in the next couple of months.

Expect the woe is me act to end right about September. Expect him to do much more lobbying of your friends and families. He is isolating you from your support system. Classic abuse tactic.

[Hissy]

Absolutely can't stress enough the need for age appropriate honesty with DC.

Tell the truth always. Make sure the DC know that women should not be treated like this, that this isn't what a relationship looks like.

Break the chain of abuse, or you'll see your DC fall into the same kind of relationship you had.