Left H last week but his reaction has completely blindsided me (long winded - sorry)

[AvaLeStrange]

Been together 20 years and have a 12yo DD.

It's always been a rollercoaster relationship, downs marked by him being moody, sulky & uncommunicative. Over the years this has escalated to aggressive and intimidating behaviour (stonewalling, door slamming, throwing things, vigorous 'tidying up'). He can be controlling, disrespectful, critical, anally retentive, rarely interested in engaging with my friends and family...you get the idea. He's incapable of dealing with/communicating negative feelings and basically takes them out on me.

In the interests of balance, when he's 'normal', which can be for months at a time, he's mostly no more annoying than any other bloke - gainfully employed, remembers special occasions, does his bit re home/childcare, decent in bed.

As the years have gone on though, its been harder and harder to get over the bad patches when he returns to his normal self. The last year has been particularly awful. I can count the good times in weeks (and those in single figures), and when he's snapped out of his moods I've been increasingly unable to forgive and forget. His behaviour has also started to impact our DD who is now getting support with anxiety from school and the local youth support service.

So last week, DD and I left. I fully expected him to go 70 shades of apeshit, threaten all sorts and change the locks. Instead he is devastated. He's staying with his parents as can't cope with being in the house alone, has been in touch with the Samaritans, made an appt with GP to ask about some kind of individual counselling/therapy and made a huge list of all the things he wants to change/improve.

We have seen him 3 times since moving out (DD doesn't want to see him alone yet) and whilst I believe he is genuine at least on a superficial level, I'm not convinced his reasons are sound (suspect he is worried about the material side of things and his reputation as much as losing me, not so much DD tbf).

He is also pushing for us to spend time together as a family, and already talking about us going on dates to try and work things out. I'm going along with the former so he and DD can see each other, but dates?!!

I have told him I am open to seeing how things pan out but it will be a long haul and I cannot promise my feelings for him will return, or that I will ever be able to trust him enough to resurrect our marriage. I've made it clear that he will have to get through individual therapy before I'll consider any kind of couples work, if at that point I feel it would be appropriate/beneficial.

I just don't really know where to go from here. I have my doubts that things can be worked out, but there is no reason for me not to wait and see if he can change. I do need to put some boundaries in place in the meantime though for mine and DDs sake. I felt fine for the 3 days post move but have started having panic attacks since seeing him and feel absolutely exhausted afterwards. He tries to be affectionate and is upset and ermotional not just with me but with DD.

Mostly just letting off steam here really, but if anyone has anynwords of wisdom they'd be much appreciated.

[OneArt]

Stay strong, OP.

You have been blind sided by his reaction because you did not expect it. You thought he would react with violence or aggression and he has disarmed you.

In fact, his reaction was predictable (although obviously you couldn't have known this) and is a common response from a manipulative man in this situation. As other posters have said.

Take back control.

[bakeoffcake]

You must put your DD first! its your duty to protect her, your Dr has given you a very clear warning that your DD's health is being very much affected by her father.

I really don't understand why you even consider putting her back into that environment! I also don't understand why you are saying you hope they will be able to complete their hobby together in a few weeks, whilst early saying your DD doesn't want to see her father on her own.

Get a bloody grip and put her first.

[Janecc]

Why would you facilitate contact between your DD and him? No wonder he's not getting the message.

He's been emotionally abusive and continues to manipulate you and DD. A break from him for Dd and you will bring new perspective for everyone. Doesn't he need to earn the right to be with her?

[Janecc]

I have an emotionally abusive mother. I've had counselling on and off for years. I'm 45. My brother still has zero opinions because we weren't (and still aren't) allowed to have opinions. In some ways he's still very similar to her too - with me because he's learnt no different.

The problems your dd has should be resolved or will haunt her for years. And if you do get back with him and he continues to be a shit, you risk alienating yourself from Her when she accuses you of putting yourself and your marriage first.

[Westfacing]

I put up with a similar but worse marriage for 25 years - when we split the children were in their early 20's so easier for me.

He too was 'heartbroken' and promised all sorts of changes but I'd had enough. Within a year he moved on and has been on/off with the same woman since, about 12 years now, and that relationship is also very volatile.

I'm very happily single and love the peace and quiet of my own home with no dramas, shouting, throwing things around, etc. Not easy in the beginning but oh so worth it for the sheer peace!

I wish you well.,

[1weekdown5togo]

I think you have received excellent advice from pps.

Do you honestly think counselling will make any difference? You need to be realistic. If it did it would be a long arduous journey for him.

My ex finally tried counselling after I had suggested it for years when he knew I didn't want to be with him any more. He went once with me and once on his own then decided he didn't need to go again but I did!

[Zumbarunswim]

I have been where you are and as a pp said my kids flourished very quickly before my eyes as soon as I left. I was shocked at how h crumbled as I expected him to go ape. I think after all the strength it took to leave (I was petrified even though my h had never been physical, "just" psychological/emotional/financial/shouting type abuse) I just wanted to gather some strength before making the final cut and having to deal with him turn nasty again. I hope you get strength to stay away. My h did revert to nasty and, as deep down I knew he would all along, also condemned me for "not giving things another go/leaving without any commitment to try etc" now I can see it very clearly having been out of it for almost 2 years but when you are in the thick of it you've been conditioned to try and placate him at every step of the way. Stay away from him and look after your self and your DD.

[AvaLeStrange]

Nicky & Olivia

I hate the fact that DD has become so involved in this mess. Obviously I couldn't prevent her from seeing his treatment of me and the effect it had on my wellbeing. Even so I thought if he went back to normal we'd still be better off staying.

Then there were a couple of incidents that affected her more directly, and one day I found her online looking at houses to rent for the two of us, at which point I started getting my act together.

I've tried and tried to steer her out of the finer details, but she says she feels like I'm keeping secrets and it makes her feel more insecure .

[MyNightWithMaud]

That last one is very tricky, but I think you need to explain to her that it's not about secrets; some aspects of the relationship between parents are personal and private to them (I'm talking in generalities, not about hiding abuse) and you are not burdening her with problems that are not hers to solve.

[Mytown1971]

Ava, based on that last post, why would you even remotely consider getting back with him. She has spelt out in big letters to you that she doesn't want to be around him.

You are probably a caring person and don't want to see someone hurting but it's all an act. It's the oldest trick in the book yet women all over the world still fall for this bullshit.

You need to tell him now that it is over, that you won't be getting back together and that you need to work together to make sure your daughters life becomes happier.

Leaving him with hope is absolutely the worst thing you could do.

You really need to take control and start getting the message across. He cannot be allowed to feel there is hope for you and he as anyone can put an act on for 6 months to get what they want.

The hard bit is leaving. Don't waste that strength you had by going back to square one.

[Lweji]

I have a boy only a year younger.
Obviously some things are not for them to hear, but as far as possible I have tried to be honest with him about the problems with his dad, including the past few years after separation. It has still been a revelation to him some of the crap his dad can spout by email, but it was his decision at some point to stop contact with dad and I respected it, while mildly encouraging it. No pushing or forcing it.

I do think children, and certainly approaching the teenage years, appreciate and respect honesty.

I'd answer her questions truthfully. In a way she can understand and not giving too much information that is not asked, but certainly satisfy as much as possible her curiosity. Anything you don't want to talk about, you can say it's a more private matter. I'm sure she understands, but the unknown can often be worse than reality and she could make a worse picture in her mind than what really happened.

You do need to make a difference in relation to her dad. Regarding honesty, in respecting her wishes and opinions, and reassuring her that you're not going anywhere and will keep her and yourself safe.

[Cary2012]

You took a massive step leaving this man, I threw my ex out after twenty years marriage, similar sort of behaviour you suffered OP. It isn't a decision taken lightly. Focus now on you, and don't let his reaction, which you didn't expect, to influence anything. Have courage in your conviction, you left, it was the only option. The first few weeks after a long marriage break up are a rollercoaster. You cannot make any decisions yet about the future. You will feel differently on an hourly basis, if you are anything like me. I think you should have minimum contact with him, and not think about family times with him. Your DD can see him, perhaps his parents could get involved to help with this. You made the right decision, you just need time for your heart to catch up with your head.

[Hissy]

My love, now that you are out, you need to sit down with dd and have a totally open. Age appropriate conversation. There may be some issues you can't fully discuss, but promise her you will when you can, you need to show her you're the one she can believe, the safe place to fall.

The fact that she was looking for rental places should be shouting at you how bad she was feeling. Time will heal.

That means not playing along with family outings, if she doesn't want to see him, she's old enough to make that decision and have it respected. You and she need time to heal and regain strength. HE is not going to want that, but it's not his call. For any hope of a relationship between him and his dd, he needs to back off

He could use the time to enroll in abuser programs, do therapy and change his mindset.

[Hissy]

The other thing you need to understand is that ther is no NORMAL for him to get back to. That normal was an illusion, an act.

[FantasticButtocks]

His reaction may not have been what you expected, but it is part of the same thing. It is designed to get you to take him back.

How would it be if you said to him DD and I are moving back to the family home as our daughter needs a proper, safe place to live. This means you DH do not live with us as she is only safe from emotional harm if you are not there. You get on and do what you need to do to sort yourself out, and in the meantime there will be no family time, certainly no dates, and you need to keep your emotional outbursts away from both of us. Express those emotions elsewhere and in therapy. Your unchecked emotions and behaviour are what got us to this point in the first place. Let's see where we are in a year's time. If he agrees, fine. Or he might just go apeshit, which will strengthen your resolve. His feelings on the subject need to come further down your priority list than your DDs and yours. He is already at the top of his own priority list, and it should be dd and you, both of of whom he has harmed.

[toptoe]

The fact is it is no longer about you and him anymore. It's about your dd and her needs.

She has told you that she does not want to be in his care unless you are there. You can't move back in with him when she has been so frank with you. Don't think about what is best for him/you. He had his chance to be a kind father. You chose to leave. It's done.

Now, your focus is not him. Or you. It's your dd. Your gp has also been very frank and told you it's a safeguarding concern. Don't let his selfish behaviour (unkind, guilt provoking behaviour) take charge over the needs of your dd.

It really is as simple as that. She is better off away from him. She knows it. Your gp knows it. You know it. So why even consider taking her back into that environment she was so desperate to leave? It would be selfish of you to do that, to be blunt.

Every woman who has children with an abusive man comes up against this choice at some time or another: his needs vs the children's needs. After years of servicing him, being belittled by him and having your esteem bashed by him it's easy to get tricked into going back into this role of doing things for him. Just don't forget your dd is innocent in all of this. She has told you and so has the gp. We can all tell you aswell: she needs you to support her, not him.

It's not your fault he has made you 'choose' between his needs and hers. That's his fault. So far you've made the right choice, spurred on by your dd practically showing you the way (amazing for a 12 year old). Don't slip back and start servicing his needs again. He's just upset that he's lost the energy he had from you. He'll find another woman and then move on at some point.

[MadisonMontgomery]

The thing is, if he was that bothered about you and your DD, he would have sought help for his behaviour before.

[DoItTooJulia]

I completely agree with DoinMummy. You've done the hardest part, you've left. Don't look back. Don't put yourself and your dd through having to do it again.

stay strong. It must be so difficult but you e already come a long way.

[toptoe]

Also you must remember he is not going to change. He will do only what benefits him at the detriment of others. At the moment, wallowing and begging for attention is his tactic with the aim of getting you back in the house so he can use you again.

I can't tell you how far away from a kind person this is. Yes, kind people get upset when the relationship ends. But they are respectful of the others' wishes.

It might have blindsided you, but it is classic abusive tactics and actually pretty common when someone takes control of their life again.

Just think of it this way, whilst he's worrying about himself his own dd is seeing a counsellor because his behaviour has caused her emotional harm. A kind person who was told their behaviour had caused damage like this to their own child would be horrified and would be doing everything to rectify it. But not your dh. He's busy worrying about himself.

So, like I said, leave him to it and concentrate on the innocent party - your child.

[adora1]

So now that the devastation he has caused is over and you are your daughter are now free of his abuse and crap he wants to try again, seriously OP, please do not put your daughter or yourself through any more of his mental torture, you are not a therapist, your prime role here is to be a good mum, stay as you are, he will never change.

[PragmaticWench]

By wanting to know the finer details, it sounds as though your DD is trying to control what is happening to you and her. This is completely understandable as she is deeply affected by her father's behaviour and very anxious about what is happening.

It is NOT the responsibility of a 12 year old. You need to reassure her that you are calmly in control of the situation and that you are putting her first. She needs to hear and believe that, otherwise she'll keep wanting to know the finer details as a way of controlling her anxiety.

Good luck.

[Hissy]

The day I dropped my ex at the airport was the most disturbing day of my life.

In the hour it takes to get there he rapidly cycled between techniques to hook me back in, when he realised it wasn't going to work, he unraveled before my eyes.

Did me a favour. He lost all his power over me, I realised iheld all the power actually

Never looked back!

[Sqooobado453]

I split up with ex-h when my son was 18 months old. Like pps, said, the change in his personality and behaviour was instantly noticeable (went from a shy, quiet boy to an outgoing, confident and very happy little boy). He was a toddler, I feel enormous guilt that he had to put up with EA ex for so long before I was strong enough to call it a day.

Your daughter has massive, massive problems. 12 is an awful age anyway without putting up with door slamming and aggressive tidying(I remember that). She needs you to protect her. It is hard to hear, but it's true. You don't need him in your lives. Don't go running after him for contact. Look after her and you.

[AvaLeStrange]

And still it goes on.

We all went out together yesterday...more tears and promises of all sorts. The ILs have offered to pay for us to have a family holiday to 'reconnect' (obviously said thanks, but no thanks). Brief brush with MIL who was all over me (I could count on one hand the number of times we've greeted one another with a hug/kiss in 20 years). She then tried to put the wind up me by saying she was scared of H being on his own and apparently grilled DD as to whether or not she loved her dad and wanted us to get back together .

Apparently he had a heart to heart with a couple we are both close to earlier in the week, so I can guess where that is heading - potential for more external pressure and me looking like the bad guy if I don't capitulate (not planning to, its just so dismally predictable).

He is going away for a few days this week, and will see DD on Friday with friends and her Godfather rather than me, which is a relief.

Why do I still feel so bloody guilty and responsible for him? This is a normal reaction, right?