Left H last week but his reaction has completely blindsided me (long winded - sorry)

[AvaLeStrange]

Been together 20 years and have a 12yo DD.

It's always been a rollercoaster relationship, downs marked by him being moody, sulky & uncommunicative. Over the years this has escalated to aggressive and intimidating behaviour (stonewalling, door slamming, throwing things, vigorous 'tidying up'). He can be controlling, disrespectful, critical, anally retentive, rarely interested in engaging with my friends and family...you get the idea. He's incapable of dealing with/communicating negative feelings and basically takes them out on me.

In the interests of balance, when he's 'normal', which can be for months at a time, he's mostly no more annoying than any other bloke - gainfully employed, remembers special occasions, does his bit re home/childcare, decent in bed.

As the years have gone on though, its been harder and harder to get over the bad patches when he returns to his normal self. The last year has been particularly awful. I can count the good times in weeks (and those in single figures), and when he's snapped out of his moods I've been increasingly unable to forgive and forget. His behaviour has also started to impact our DD who is now getting support with anxiety from school and the local youth support service.

So last week, DD and I left. I fully expected him to go 70 shades of apeshit, threaten all sorts and change the locks. Instead he is devastated. He's staying with his parents as can't cope with being in the house alone, has been in touch with the Samaritans, made an appt with GP to ask about some kind of individual counselling/therapy and made a huge list of all the things he wants to change/improve.

We have seen him 3 times since moving out (DD doesn't want to see him alone yet) and whilst I believe he is genuine at least on a superficial level, I'm not convinced his reasons are sound (suspect he is worried about the material side of things and his reputation as much as losing me, not so much DD tbf).

He is also pushing for us to spend time together as a family, and already talking about us going on dates to try and work things out. I'm going along with the former so he and DD can see each other, but dates?!!

I have told him I am open to seeing how things pan out but it will be a long haul and I cannot promise my feelings for him will return, or that I will ever be able to trust him enough to resurrect our marriage. I've made it clear that he will have to get through individual therapy before I'll consider any kind of couples work, if at that point I feel it would be appropriate/beneficial.

I just don't really know where to go from here. I have my doubts that things can be worked out, but there is no reason for me not to wait and see if he can change. I do need to put some boundaries in place in the meantime though for mine and DDs sake. I felt fine for the 3 days post move but have started having panic attacks since seeing him and feel absolutely exhausted afterwards. He tries to be affectionate and is upset and ermotional not just with me but with DD.

Mostly just letting off steam here really, but if anyone has anynwords of wisdom they'd be much appreciated.

[lottiegarbanzo]

12 is such a sensitive age, so aware yet so clueless, feeling so responsible yet so powerless. Please give your dd some stability. A clear, safe, comfortable vision of a future she can relax and grow into.

He is feeling sorry for himself, nothing more. Well of course he is, he isn't getting away with it all any more. He's bumped into a consequence. Poor, poor him. How horrid, how undesirable, how very much better if he could blag his way back to normal.

He needs masses of space if he's actually going to take the opportunity to sort himself out. If he was serious about doing so, he'd be starting to recognise that. You need masses of space to create an alternative future, so you have a real choice. Your dd is relying on your ability to do that.

[Mix56]

btw.
practicalities: open new bank account, move all your money into it.
Change all passwords, bank, phone, computer.
Disactivate any cloud, whatsapp.... any shared accounts, (he may be linked on iPad phone etc, without your knowledge.)
Get ALL your important paperwork, house docs, savings, pension, shares, pay slips, birth certs, & passports OUT of the house & left at parents or good friend or work place. Do not leave stuff where he can copy, destroy, steal.
Trust is gone. this is important.

[MonicaLewinskisFlange]

Be strong Ava. You've already been so brave. Your DD is so lucky to have you. Why can't these fathers put their DC before their own selfish feelings? It breaks my heart.

And in all this you have supported me on another thread. Thank you.

[Mix56]

Yes galaxygirl.

[galaxygirl45]

1st of all Ava I think you need a big round of applause for having the courage to leave. You made a huge decision and stuck by it, and his reaction has obviously been the complete opposite of what you expected. This needs to be about you and your daughter, he doesn't even come into the equation at the moment. If he can change, then it's on him to prove it and not for you to even be remotely involved with. I suspect that with time, he will just get angrier that his games aren't working...... but only you will know if he has truly changed. Keep him away, and get your parents/friends/neighbour to be there for handovers.....i think the message that you don't want to see him will be a powerful one. You've lived this way for such a long time that anything new will take time and even more courage, but you'll get there.

[DoreenLethal]

If she doesn't feel safe with her father then you need to either arrange a contact centre or let her wait until someone can escort her throughout the visit.

[RunRabbitRunRabbit]

Did you actually tell MIL off yet? Are you scared of her?

[RunRabbitRunRabbit]

Do you really not think your STBXH is a toxic parent to your DD? Do you really not think she is in a toxic situation?

Children can react weirdly. Overenthusiastic declarations of love towards the abusive parent are common. The child has learned from birth to mollify the toxic parent at all costs. You have been modelling that behaviour to her for years, even though you didn't mean to damage her, it is what she has seen every day for her whole life.

Putting yourself first is probably too big a step after so many years of abuse, like you said, you can't transform into an iron lady overnight.

The jump to super protective mother is likely to come much more easily. To do that you need to learn about the damage that has been done, how it might manifest and what you can do to help and protect your daughter.

If do go to the GP with your STBXH it should be with a clear aim of getting advice on accessing services to help you and DD, and maybe to get the GP emphasising to him directly that DD's needs should be paramount, even if he feels bad about it.

[middleeasternpromise]

What you are experiencing is completely normal but you are dealing with extremely manipulative behaviour designed to get yr husband what he wants - a return to the status quo. If you consider how unprepared you were for his reaction, compared to what you expected - it shows you how much he is in control. His behaviour is not something he's blind too even though he's probably gas lighted you into believing its your imagination, he knew things had changed when you left so he too has had to bring in a change in his behaviour but he knows he cannot afford to give you too much space as controllers cannot allow it. He is still trying to control you it's his normal script but you need to recognise it if you are to stay ahead and hold the change you have created.

Your DD is a child its different for her she will not understand, that's her dad and all she has known hence the conflict she has in trying to love someone who offers such an unsafe relationship. You will need on going support to make decisions in the future if you aren't going to slip back to square one - the thing with wider family is that they will usually want everything to go back to 'normal' my MIL didn't accept things until I finally warned her any reconciliation would be 'over my dead body's that time she heard it. I wish you well.

[NameChange30]

Rabbit wasn't being rude, she was trying to make a helpful suggestion. You seem to think she was accusing you of being toxic, but I doubt very much she was - it's your ex who is the toxic parent.

I understand that you want to support your DD but I don't think you can agree to her request to be present when she sees her father. It's not healthy or helpful for you to see him. The negative impact on you will ultimately have a negative impact on DD. If she doesn't feel comfortable with unsupervised contact, find someone else to supervise, or stop contact until she does feel comfortable.

[AvaLeStrange]

Rabbit...Toxic Parents...did you mean to be so rude?

I am supporting my daughter 100% including obtaining support at school and counselling which I have already stated on this thread. She knows she is under no obligation to see or contact him and that I will back her up in whatever she chooses. Thus far she has chosen to see him, but asked that I am also present, so I have been.

There is no 'making it clear that we will get back together' - quite the opposite as every time I have to see him and he goes on about wanting to work things out, I tell him that whilst that is all well and good I can't promise it will change my feelings towards him - namely that I no longer love him or can imagine ever trusting him enough to live with him again.

Yet still he continues, and I guess you are all right in that that in itself is a way of continuing to be abusive. I took a long time to reach this point and didn't take the decision to leave lightly. I never considered getting back together to be an option prior to having to see him because of DD, which says it all.

[sealmane]

I think his getting his parents and friends involved in the way you describe very strange ...

[RunRabbitRunRabbit]

Maybe you should also read Toxic Parents to get a feel for what your DD is experiencing and how it might affect her in future.

Of course she is asking to see her father now despite being desperate to get away. You and he are making it pretty clear there is a good chance you will be back together within a year. She is then forced to stay with him for 5-6 years until she is 18 and can leave. Self preservation is kicking in. She has to toady to him now ready for when you prove no one will protect her from him. Btw, when you put her back with him then your relationship with her is over, it might take a few years for you to realise it but her relationship with you can't recover from that kind of betrayal. She will probably need therapy when she is older.

Do you want that? Think about what is right for your DD even if it doesn't match what she says she wants.

Also, go to the GP for counselling for your DD not with him. Put your effort into fixing the victim not the abuser.

[Anicechocolatecake]

My heart sank reading this. You are in huge danger of going back and things will only get worse if you do. Your dd needs protecting.

I think everything you are feeling is normal. In real life people do return to their abusers again and again and again. It's all about wanting to believe they can change and feeling sorry for them and not knowing how to function alone. When I left my abusive relationship I was overwhelmed with pity for my ex. He was distraught. I kept getting sucked back in to having contact and just couldn't draw a final line under it all. Then eventually I got angry. I went over and over the abuse and thought, wait, what? He treated me that badly and yet wants me to feel sorry for him? That seemed so upside down it was unreal. I would never have left if he hadn't been abusive.

It's very simple, if you think about it. If you love someone and want them to stay, you don't intimidate them or scare them or belittle them. Would you do that to someone and then expect them to let you stay in their life? Would you consider that acceptable generally? Why not? And yes most people have stress in their lives and many people manage it without being abusive. Playing sports, hiking, playing music, watching crappy telly, masturbating, gardening and countless other things are far better stress relievers than abusing someone, if your husband needs suggestions.

This will play on your emotions for a long time. You just have to keep reminding yourself of the very worst things that happened and get angry. Great if he's having counselling but I guarantee if you get back together that he will slip back into old habits. It might take a year, it might take 5, but it will happen because it's habit for him. It is very very hard, actually almost impossible for someone to change so drastically so as to stop being an abuser. And I say that as someone who spent a good 6 months weighing up whether I should go back to my abuser. (!!!!) It's a very strong pull. I am so so so so so glad I didn't. My god, the relief. Once you're settled, counselling is an excellent idea to properly look at why you've put up with it for so long.

[Cary2012]

I can only share my experiences OP, I cut all ties after 20 years marriage (and three years prior) with three teenage kids. But I really, really was 100% certain that I wanted the split. He was served with divorce papers the week after I threw him out. I had absolutely no doubts. There was no part of me that wanted to make a future with him. Can you honestly say that this is how you feel? I can get that you still have feelings, of course you do. There is no quick fix, I wish there was, but if you really want to move on, you must put in place boundaries. You must work at detaching. Please don't think we are being hard on you, I just feel that if you don't detach, you are prolonging the agony. Sometimes you just have to rip the plaster off in one go, less painful x

[Kr1stina]

If you husband was really sorry for his actions and determined to change , this is what he would do

1. Let you and your DDd move back home immediately and he woudl move out. She is the one who needs the stability of her own home and things.
   

1. Respect your wishes for time and space to work things out for yourself
   

1. Stop talking to you about how hurt he is and expecting you to be the caretaker for his own feelings and protect him from the consequences of his own actions .
   

3 . Tell the truth to his family and your friends

1. Arrange contact with his daughter that is centered around HER needs and not HIS. Make his own way there and back .
   

1. Stop his mother from harassing his daughter with " don't you love your dad ? " questions
   

6 , take responsibility for fixing his own shit

1. Be completely reasonable and fair about arrangement for the separation, child support, closing joint accounts etc
   

That is the different between repentance and regret. People who are repentant accept full responsibility for their own actions and seek to make amends for what they have done. They respect that other have the right to their own feelings and decisions and choices . They decide to turn around their lives and seek whatever support they need to do so . They accoetaccept that them changing doesn't place any obligation on anyone else .

What your husband has is regret - he's sorry for himself and the trouble that he has . He wants everything to go back to the way is was - him in control , you doing what you are told . And DD a pawn in his game .

[PrincessHairyMclary]

No, people don't just leave relationships without the guilt etc that you are feeling. They go through the horrible inbetweeny stage that you are in now before realising cutting all ties is the best way to go for everyone and try and help people learn from their own mistakes.

You feel blindsided by his reaction - but in truth it's how many men act. I was only with DDs Dad for 18 months and he piled on the, "I'll change I'll do counselling", "you're making me suicidal" etc rubbish. It's to try and regain the power. When that didn't work he tried the "we should have family days out for DD" and try and get back together each time I didn't fall for one of these he'd go back to being horrible and trying to control things. Then it was the "Ill take you to court and you'll hardly see DD and she'll be with me half the time" what a load of tosh I offered and was accepted by the judge much more access then he has ever taken up.

You and DD will massively benefit with a clear break with clear cut boundaries that everyone understands. Once the arrangement has been in place for a while you can start to be more flexible.
First, make times when DD is available to be picked up (that you and DD are both happy with) if she doesn't want to be alone then she needs a third party (grandparents or contact centre).
Secondly, avoid the family days out and spending time in each other's houses it'll only confuse you all. There will be moments when you are nostalgic etc and will waver so it's best if you have to meet do it in a mutual place.
Thirdly, if you can explain to DD why you don't want to be with her Dad, that sometimes adults don't make each other happy anymore and it's better to have two happy homes than one unhappy home. People who stay together for the kids aren't doing them any favours in a stressful home.

Good luck, the first 6 months is rocky but you'll soon have your life back and be in your own flow and much happier.

[Lweji]

He and his family are the ones prolonging your feelings of guilt and confusion. You'll do better on your own for a good while. Surround yourself by people who do have your best interest at heart, not his.

[Lweji]

Not at all, Ava.

Which is why we are telling you that it's best to cut it asap. Keeping in close touch and having shared days with abusers just continues the abuse.

Making yourself cut contact IS the best for you and your child.

[PotteringAlong]

Stop the family days out! You've split up or you haven't. If DD wants to see him she can see him with her grandparents present if that's what she wants.

No one is saying you should have no regrets. People are saying that when a GP tells you that you and your DH (and it is you as well as him) have damaged your DD so much she almost thinks it needs referring as a safeguarding issue your priority should be her and any talk about going back / family days together makes it seem that, for whatever reason, she is not your priority.

She will have stuff she doesn't want you to know. Tell her that it's not about keeping secrets it's about stuff that she just doesn't need to know and start keeping her safe.

[AvaLeStrange]

Seriously, does everyone else who leaves their relationship, particularly with kids involved, manage to just walk away without a backward glance and cut all ties immediately without any feelings of confusion, guilt etc?

Clearly I'm some kind of freaky idiot that I can't go from zero to iron lady overnight.

[DoreenLethal]

See - if you have ended it with him you should not even know that he is away next week. He is not now your concern. Just stop.

[AvaLeStrange]

I've just finished a course of CBT which really helped me to make this decision...I am seeing GP in a couple of weeks so will mention it, but not sure that's what I need really.

What I do need is some space from him, which of course I'm not getting atm. Will use him being away this week to think of some solutions to that and how to enforce them.