Why would Ds say this?

[ClearBlueWater]

My marriage isn't good, and that isn't new.
I am disabled and our intimate life has dwindled (I find it painful).
H is very unkind to me and I hate being intimate with him due to this too.
He says I am a 'shit wife, who's only use is I can cook'.

Here is a small example.
Today, H wants to go on a train. The trip is for him, but he wants the kids there to be with him and to take pics to send his family to show what a 'good dad' he is. (He will 'fuss them' in front of other people and ignore them at home, and has always been this way)
Only one particular train will do (cant be the next train, has to be that one).
He wants to take the kids, so I get to stay home (we have a new and difficult dog who doesn't cope with being left alone atm).
Dd is not really keen on trip so H says she can have sweeties when she gets there. She wants to buy me some to bring back.
Just before leaving, Dd starts fussing about a particular purse she cant find. If we stop and search they will miss that particular train and H will be in a bad mood. I wont be there, and I am worried he will make life miserable for the kids by grumping on and on.
I tell her: 'don't worry about your purse, Dad will have spare sweetie money'.
I go into the kitchen and tell H: 'Dd is fussing about a purse. there isn't time to find it. I've told her you have spare pennies for sweeties'.
He starts ranting: 'I cant look for it, NOW I will burn the toast'.
I say: 'Oh you have misunderstood me - you don't need to find it, just reassure Dd'. He then rants on about toast etc etc etc again and starts using the F word in front of Ds, ('you fucking stupid cow') quickly becoming verbally aggressive at my perceived criticism of him. He leaves room.
I go into the hallway and explain that I was just trying to pass on helpful info re Dd and tell him to stop swearing. He is standing in a doorway at the top of a flight of stairs. He lunges at me and I move away quickly and I shut the door to stop him lunging again. It is not enough to alter his standing room, and he is in no danger of falling down the stairs, but he is annoyed and hammers on the door shouting.
He storms into the kitchen and tells Ds that I tried to 'push him down the stairs'. Ds looks upset (of course!).
Before they leave, Ds says: 'Dad was just trying not to burn the toast'.

Obviously, things cannot continue like this.
I have stayed with H for 'the sake of the kids' but this was a mistake.

But I am poleaxed that Ds would make this sort of comment?

[ProfessionalPencilSharpener]

Please OP, please don't believe that staying is in the best interests of the children (but I know you already know that). My dad was just like this - finding fault and attributing blame in ridiculously minor situations, and things would blow out of all proportion. Your son doesn't necessarily think you're in the wrong, so to speak - he feels that he's trying to keep the peace. It's awful to feel that you can keep both parents happy if you only knew how, that something you could say would make a difference. He's trying to appease your husband - doing the only thing he knows how in a difficult situation. He has a very simplistic view of the world, and just wants to try and help everyone get along. He doesn't think you're wrong. I hated waking up every day not knowing what fresh arguments the day would bring. Children will often take it upon themselves to be the family peacemaker, which is a hopeless task anyway and too much for little shoulders to bear. It affected me very deeply for a long time and I still look back on my childhood with sadness. My parents would have been so much happier apart, as they now are, and I'll admit to being slightly bitter about it. They should have done it years ago - I would have had a happier childhood. Instead it was sheer torment.

Sorry, that sound very self-pitying! But I so feel for your DC in this situation. Please don't take your DS apparent 'taking sides' to heart. He just wants happy parents - whether together or apart - that's all!

[ArcheryAnnie]

To answer your original question, ClearBlue, your DS is learning how to be a man from your H.

ClearBlue for your sake, and your kids' sake, get out now. Your H isn't going to change.

Will your DCs be upset? Yes. Will they blame you? probably, but they will get over it in time. Is it the best thing you can do, not just for all your current happiness but for your DC's future happiness, too? Absolutely.

I grew up in a household like this, full of tension, with a permanently angry father. I left it 35 years ago, as soon as I was old enough, and yet I can feel the leftover anxiety bleeding through as I read your post. My one goal on becoming a parent was to never subject my own kid to having to live with this, or to learn how to be an adult and a man from watching this.

Good luck

[AnyFucker]

Yes, he is being abused. Abuse yakes many forms. He is living in a house where his parents are modelling terrible examples of how relationships work and that will damage his own ability to form healthy relationships in the future.

[ClearBlueWater]

I love my children and I take good care of them.
Their father is an unhappy man but that is directed at me, not them.
I stand in the way.
I will do that until they leave home if necessary.

I will also try to leave if that would be better for them.
I did say that I am working on living separately.
There are practical difficulties which I am trying to surmount.

I am exhausted and in a moment of exhaustion, I asked why ds is so adamant that H is always 'right'.
It made my doubt my 'take' on it.
I am bracing myself for his anger when we separate (ds, not H).
I am fearful the separation will cause more damage.
I don't want my son to hate me. He is angry enough as it is.

[ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight]

Nobody doubts that you love them but witnessing one parent's abuse of the other is very harmful for children and constitutes emotional abuse. Read your op back and really ask how effective your protection is?
Yes he's angry now and that's his dad's fault. More of this will lead to more anger and more long term harm.

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

I have absolutely no doubt that you think you are protecting them from his anger etc. but you can't, not while you're all living there together.

It's like putting all your white washing in with one navy blue sweatshirt - the navy will run and will dirty all your whites. Your children are not immune from the atmosphere in your house, they can feel the tension, the anger, the misery. And that is now classified as emotional abuse, I'm sorry to tell you.

I'm glad that you're working on separating, and working on surmounting the obstacles.

Yes your DS might be angry to start with, as we've said - he might fear reprisal from your DH as much as anything! - but when he's living in a calmer, warmer environment with no fear of Daddy's anger, he will become calmer himself.

It might be an idea to talk to his school, see if they have a school counsellor or any access to such a person for children going through a traumatic time - that might help him as well.

Short term pain for long term gain is the key here, I think. for you - probably too early for so have and instead :)

[DistanceCall]

Your son has realised that the only way to keep his father happy is to tread on eggshells around him. He loves his father (he's his father) and identifies with him. And he is probably annoyed that you don't tread on eggshells too to keep the peace.

It's a common strategy among children of abusive parents. You need to get away NOW. Your son is on the way to becoming an abuser himself.

[cuntycowfacemonkey]

Your DS says it because he is scared, worried and anxious. He's too young to understand really that his dad is an abusive arsehole and sees only that you say something and your dh goes off on one. So although he doesn't understand why he feels that you are triggering these horrible scenes. He has no control over what is going on in his home so in his own way he is pleading with you not to "cause" a problem.

Your DS is already damaged by his environment and I totally understand his behaviour because that was my childhood. I assure you that you do not stand in the way and protect them from this abuse. He sides with your DH because he's desperate for you DH not to turn his anger on him a bit like the way kids side with the school bully in order to protect themselves from being the victim.

[ArcheryAnnie]

I love my children and I take good care of them.
Their father is an unhappy man but that is directed at me, not them.
I stand in the way.
I will do that until they leave home if necessary.

I don't doubt you take good care of your kids - but you can't shield them from the effects of their father's abuse of you while you live with him. It just isn't possible. Even if his anger is not directed at them, they will still be affected by it.

I grew up - as I said above - in an abusive household. Even though I was shouted at, belittled, hit, it's not those occasions that stay with me. It's remembering watching it happen to my mum that still affects me all these years later.

And this is their model of what a marriage is like. I don't imagine for a second that you'd want your DD to settle for the life you currently have, with this man, or that you'd want for a second your DS to treat another person the way your H treats you.

[GudrunBrangwen]

Two things: when you leave, ds will feel able to express his feelings more safely so you will get the fallout. It's not making things worse. It's making them better but it is likely to get worse for a time as the flood gates open. Then it should improve.

Secondly you have a choice about living in an environment such as you currently have - it takes two to have a relationship and while your h is the one causing the strife, you are accepting it for as long as you maintain the relationship by staying in it.

Once you have left it, then no, you are not abusing your children but exercising your choice to stay in it is really bad for them and therefore IMO colluding in the abuse that is taking place, the environmental abuse if you like. They are being abused by being forced to witness this bullshit day after day.

Hope that makes sense; you have a choice and it sounds like you are choosing to leave the relationship, which I applaud.

There are no rules in the world that will force you to have this man in your home, in your bed, or anything else, apart from possibly letting him see the children if and when he makes the effort.

Good luck and gather some legal support around you now - WA have local branches and there will be a womens outreach service near you too, that they can put you onto. They will offer counselling, money, legal advice, in fact anything you need.

[GudrunBrangwen]

also if you stay he will never get that floodgate opening thing. He will therefore learn to supporess his feelings, and 'cope'. And this will involve huge damage and sacrifice on his part.

Please get away from this situation A.S.A.P. so that your children can begin to heal (and so can you)

[GudrunBrangwen]

*suppress

[ClearBlueWater]

"And he is probably annoyed that you don't tread on eggshells too to keep the peace."

I DO though.
So many eggshells - all the eggshells in the world.
But it is never enough.
Whatever I do is never enough to prevent me being a 'shit wife'.

No, I wouldn't want either of my children to live like this.
I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
But I do think it must be my fault.

I can cope with anything except my children hating me,
ds hating me especially.

[Lweji]

Not read it all yet, but this is why people shouldn't stay in abusive relationships because of the children.

The children see how he is with you and prefer to play compliant and be on his side to avoid being the targets.

I can see two scenarios:
a) your children will start abusing you too
b) they will become targets too

[Lweji]

It's not your fault. It's his and how he chooses to treat you (and the children, effectively).

But you can do something to make your life and their lives better.

[cestlavielife]

you can get help and support with dealing with your ds before and after separation ask gp to refer you to family therapy now, explain that yo separating and you need support.

you need to get away from this angry man.

you are not protecting your dc by staying. you are making it worse for the dc long term.

but you dont have to do this alone- go to gp, ask for referral to counselling, for you; ask for referral to family therapy for dc.

[cestlavielife]

ps rather than hating you -Dc often blame themselves. "if i had stopped the arguing we wouldn't be separate" etc. family therapist can help with this.
and most dc at some point will say "i hate you" to a parent... but long term looking back on their childhood memories growing up - think about that... will they resent having been forced to stay in a damaged home or be happy they got to spend time separately with mum and dad, no arguments.

[DistanceCall]

^"And he is probably annoyed that you don't tread on eggshells too to keep the peace."

I DO though.^

That is the problem. It will never be enough. But your son thinks, and hopes, that if you all only did exactly what his father wants, then everything would be alright, and it's actually your fault (your fault and your DD's and your Ds's) because his father is unhappy, and you just need to keep trying harder and doing things right and...

Do you realise that this is no way to live? That you children's thoughts have already been poisoned by the toxic atmosphere in your home?

[DistanceCall]

^"And he is probably annoyed that you don't tread on eggshells too to keep the peace."

I DO though.^

That is the problem. It will never be enough. But your son thinks, and hopes, that if you all only did exactly what his father wants, then everything would be alright, and it's actually your fault (your fault and your DD's and your Ds's) because his father is unhappy, and you just need to keep trying harder and doing things right and...

Do you realise that this is no way to live? That you children's thoughts have already been poisoned by the toxic atmosphere in your home?

[DistanceCall]

^"And he is probably annoyed that you don't tread on eggshells too to keep the peace."

I DO though.^

That is the problem. It will never be enough. But your son thinks, and hopes, that if you all only did exactly what his father wants, then everything would be alright, and it's actually your fault (your fault and your DD's and your Ds's) because his father is unhappy, and you just need to keep trying harder and doing things right and...

Do you realise that this is no way to live? That you children's thoughts have already been poisoned by the toxic atmosphere in your home?

[DistanceCall]

^"And he is probably annoyed that you don't tread on eggshells too to keep the peace."

I DO though.^

That is the problem. It will never be enough. But your son thinks, and hopes, that if you all only did exactly what his father wants, then everything would be alright, and it's actually your fault (your fault and your DD's and your Ds's) because his father is unhappy, and you just need to keep trying harder and doing things right and...

Do you realise that this is no way to live? That you children's thoughts have already been poisoned by the toxic atmosphere in your home?

[LMGTFY]

I'm not great at relationship advice however here's my take. Your H is a knobhead bully, just like my father. We all bent over backwards to please or avoided him depending on his mood. My lovely mum ended up with no confidence till finally db and I had left uni and she broke free, her life 10 years on now is fab however my db is still at his father's bidding, he is a still a 'woe is me, why did she leave' knob head but now he has my stupid brother ruining his life as he grew up with that crap, greatful for the smallest but of notice between the twattiness. Please go now, I wish mum had been able to back in the early 90s, perhaps DB would have had a better make role model then instead of a selfish angry man.

As for picking Your area for SEN, there are other agencies that can help with fine motor dyspraxia too, I don't know your situation with diagnosis and support but the dyspraxia association can help, and your current Senco should be able to offer advice, we have a choice of 2 LEAs so have asked a lot of questions, wishing you well with that aspect too.

[Havalina1]

ClearBlue I was in your sons shoes and I would have said hints Luke that too to my mum. I watched on with razor sharp eyes while her actions triggered his rants 'mum if you could remember to write down what that cheque was for! / if you had the sandwiches pre made / if you hadn't worn that belt he doesn't like it!' Oh it was awful. But in my little mind it was so obvious all mum had to do was change HER behaviour and the problem of them arguing would be gone.

Of course I was completely wrong, my dad was a total prick to my mum.

She left him when I was 13 and by then I saw her as a weak woman... But when she told me the news she was off, she became my HERO. I surprised myself thinking. That and I can see if she hadn't left him I would feel s lot differently about her today. She is a very brave woman.

Your son can't make full sense of what is going on yet so dont doubt yourself or take too much heed of his logic. You sound exhausted, it's jumping off your posts. I hate what your H is doing - he is a bully.

[DistanceCall]

Oops. Sorry for the repeated message. Don't know what happened there.

[dementedDementor]

Nothing was ever my dad's fault either and unfortunately one of my brothers has the same attitude. One thing my parent's marriage taught me is never stay together for the sake of the kids, you are undoubtedly causing them more harm then good.

Sorry that you're in such a shit situation op. Please don't stay in it for longer than you have to.