Why would Ds say this?

[ClearBlueWater]

My marriage isn't good, and that isn't new.
I am disabled and our intimate life has dwindled (I find it painful).
H is very unkind to me and I hate being intimate with him due to this too.
He says I am a 'shit wife, who's only use is I can cook'.

Here is a small example.
Today, H wants to go on a train. The trip is for him, but he wants the kids there to be with him and to take pics to send his family to show what a 'good dad' he is. (He will 'fuss them' in front of other people and ignore them at home, and has always been this way)
Only one particular train will do (cant be the next train, has to be that one).
He wants to take the kids, so I get to stay home (we have a new and difficult dog who doesn't cope with being left alone atm).
Dd is not really keen on trip so H says she can have sweeties when she gets there. She wants to buy me some to bring back.
Just before leaving, Dd starts fussing about a particular purse she cant find. If we stop and search they will miss that particular train and H will be in a bad mood. I wont be there, and I am worried he will make life miserable for the kids by grumping on and on.
I tell her: 'don't worry about your purse, Dad will have spare sweetie money'.
I go into the kitchen and tell H: 'Dd is fussing about a purse. there isn't time to find it. I've told her you have spare pennies for sweeties'.
He starts ranting: 'I cant look for it, NOW I will burn the toast'.
I say: 'Oh you have misunderstood me - you don't need to find it, just reassure Dd'. He then rants on about toast etc etc etc again and starts using the F word in front of Ds, ('you fucking stupid cow') quickly becoming verbally aggressive at my perceived criticism of him. He leaves room.
I go into the hallway and explain that I was just trying to pass on helpful info re Dd and tell him to stop swearing. He is standing in a doorway at the top of a flight of stairs. He lunges at me and I move away quickly and I shut the door to stop him lunging again. It is not enough to alter his standing room, and he is in no danger of falling down the stairs, but he is annoyed and hammers on the door shouting.
He storms into the kitchen and tells Ds that I tried to 'push him down the stairs'. Ds looks upset (of course!).
Before they leave, Ds says: 'Dad was just trying not to burn the toast'.

Obviously, things cannot continue like this.
I have stayed with H for 'the sake of the kids' but this was a mistake.

But I am poleaxed that Ds would make this sort of comment?

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

Oh balls to the italics fail!

[ClearBlueWater]

I am going to ask for this to be moved to relationships.

I think I am going to need some support.

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

Good idea, Clearblue - holding your hand every step of the way

[BeccaMumsnet]

We'll pop this over to relationships now.

[ClearBlueWater]

Thank you, MNHQ.x

[Twinklestein]

You need to rehome the dog and your husband.

[ClearBlueWater]

The dog is the only thing that has given the kids and I any joy.
(needless to say, H, whose idea it was, hates it)
The dog, hard work as it is, stays.

[BertieBotts]

Glad you are ready to get that support, Clear :)

Yes, DS will probably blame you for a split in the short term, because he will still have this mindset which is of course shaped by his experience. His experience to date tells him that Dad wouldn't be annoyed if everyone was perfect and didn't have accidents - this isn't true, as you know, but children are optimistic by nature and tend to believe in the best of their parents, so he will totally believe right now that this is true.

This is one of the painful things that we have to do sometimes as parents. Remember when he was a baby, and you took him for his injections, and he probably cried and wondered why you would let this strange person hurt him. But you did it, not to hurt him, but to protect him. Now he is older he understands about vaccinations and that they are not nice for a short time but in the long term they stop us from getting seriously ill.

So yes, your son will likely be angry, and some of that anger will be directed at you. It is hard to cope with at a time when you are feeling emotionally vulnerable and unsure of yourself to begin with. Please know that it is still the right thing to do. In fact, his anger might even be eye opening to you - a younger child would be upset and confused, but an older one has already learned to blame you, rather than trust you, because when something goes wrong Dad normally blames Mum, and there is some (twisted) logic to the blaming.

Do know that the trust will come back. Short term you use neutral terms to explain the break up by explaining that Mum and Dad find it very difficult to live with each other and are always making each other unhappy and arguing, that it is between adults and sometimes adult relationships break up. That both of you love them very much and that parents do not break up from their children - that no matter what you will always be there for them.

Long term (when he's much older) you can explain to DS that Dad had impossible standards. That you know sometimes it looked like you were winding him up but that you really were trying your hardest to get along and be nice, but still he found things to pick at every day. That such a negative person can be very draining and that ultimately, Dad chose to react in the way that he did.

Medium term, you will see a change in both DC as you model a more accepting environment for them, a calmer one, where people can make mistakes and they get laughed off and fixed, not berated. If they experience the opposite when they visit him, at least it is for a minority of the time, and the contrast with your home environment will also be clearer.

[BertieBotts]

Also, I think that after a surprisingly short time even if DS is angry to begin with he will actually be relieved - once he realises he can see both of his parents, without the arguments, and there is a calmer overall environment at home it will undoubtedly be a great relief for him. So I don't think he will be angry for as long as you fear.

[ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight]

Kids often side with the shouty, mean, abusive parent because they are the scary one to be appeased

[CherylTunt]

OP my Dad had a temper and would rant and swear and so on. Mine and my siblings' whole childhood (which was mostly quite happy, on the whole!) was lived with an undercurrent of don't anyone make Dad angry. And I remember resenting and cursing internally my mum or any sibling who pushed back, or answered back, or did anything to set him off. Because when he was in a mood, everything was shit for everyone. And as a child you just want that not to happen.

[ClearBlueWater]

Cheryl

I know. But for the last 2 years or so Dad has been Mr Perfect and every single time I say something innocuous like: 'dd is fussing about her purse' or 'ds is tired so we'll not bother with X' or ' did the dog get fed?' and H goes into ranty meltdown, DS will come flying to his side and tell me how 'Dad was just trying to help mum'.

So, maybe it IS me?

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

Clearblue - at what point do you start to think that a small child has a better grasp of the situation than you, the grown adult, do? More to the point, when you start to think that, you need to realise that you have been more brainwashed by this behaviour than you thought.

Your DS is trying to appease your fuckwit H. That's what he's doing. He's also silently pleading with you to stop aggravating the fuckwit, because he doesn't like the results. He's just too young to know how to do it effectively so that YOU understand what he's doing as well.

It is NOT YOU. NOR is it your DS, nor your DD, nor the dog, nor anything else - it is entirely your fuckwit H's fault.

Please - understand this - it is your H who is causing all this upset.

[Itisbetternow]

No you need to listen to everyone on this thread. It is not you. Your DS is trying to keep the peace so he defends his father as he knows he is the aggressive one and needs to keep him calm. If he defended you your FS knows that his father will explode at all of you. You need to leave as soon as possible so that your son can stop playing the ref. there is so much help on here for you.

[CherylTunt]

No, I think your DS is just desperately trying to smooth things over...and there may be an element of wishing (irrationally) that you would just shut up and not set him off. I am projecting all over the place here

That doesn't mean YOU are actually doing anything wrong. You are not. You're just making normal, innocuous conversation. Your DH goes off on one, and for a child, it seems easier and better to confront you (nice, not scary) than DH (volatile, frightening).

Like I said, though, I'm projecting.

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

This isn't a catchy saying but it's true nonetheless:
When one pisses you off, it's probably them. But when everybody pisses you off, chances are it's you.

The common factor in the pissed-off-ness ranty meltdowns is your H. Not you, him. So guess what... yes, that means it's down to him. He's the problem.

[ClearBlueWater]

That's the thing though, thumb

I come from a very odd family background.
H's is more 'normal'.
But I had a lot of counselling and am aware of the tendencies it left me with and how to mitigate them. I am now n/c with almost all of mine (sad, but there was no other way to stop the scapegoating).
When I first met H I was dealing with a major issue in my family in a formal way and H was very supportive.
However he would now say: 'even your own family hate you' if it came up.
His family are 'normal' but actually they are quite dysfunctional and he was made the 'helpless/poor ickle' one and he just doesn't see it. He is full of rage about it, but cant direct it at them, so it has to go somewhere...
BUT - it IS hard to believe that it isn't ME when I have no family to support me.

re the 'at what point do you think a small child has better grasp of the situation than you do?' Yes, I do see what you are saying.

It is down to me to make the decision - only I can do it. BUT

It is GUILT. I should have left when ds was 3.5.
I can tell you the exact moment I should have left.

Now, I have stayed until he is 11 and he and H bond over TopGear and Hornby and stuff he will hate me if I 'take him away from his Dad'.

It is too late.

[Callico]

It is never too late, clear.

[5608Carrie]

Clear you have been made to think like this. It is classic emotional abuse. Google the freedom programme by Womens Aid. It is designed for people like you.

Be very careful. If he thinks you might leave he will be at his most dangerous.

[BertieBotts]

We all have those moments of "I should have done it then". The reality is it's extremely difficult to act at these seemingly pivotal moments even if we think that it should be easy. It's not. Your self preservation instincts kick in and you minimise, defend and excuse your reasons for staying.

He can still watch telly and play trains with his dad if you leave. You wouldn't be taking that away from him, honestly. Even if H goes off in a strop and refuses to see him, that wouldn't be your decision, it would be his. For once, you could lay it out clearly to your son. "I am not stopping Dad from seeing you in any way. He is free to pick you up and take you out at any time."

[ThumbWitchesAbroad]

Clear - it is NOT too late.

Your DS will still be able to have his time with his Dad, just not every day.

But the damage limitation needs to start soon - saying it's "too late" is like a smoker refusing to give up smoking on the grounds that they're probably going to get lung cancer now anyway - well no, the sooner they stop, the more likely it is that their tissues will return to health and the threat of cancer grows smaller.

So you DO need to get him out of this situation, even now, even still - because there is still the chance that he will be able to view your H's behaviour towards you as abnormal and wrong. The more you stay, the more you accept your H's treatment of you, the more chance there is that your DS will view it as acceptable because you accept it. And he will start to copy his father and you will accept that too. :(

[AnyFucker]

Your son said that because he is being abused. He will turn into a people pleaser just like you, or an abuser like his father if you do not change his situation.

[ClearBlueWater]

He is not being abused.
He may be living in a house with two very unhappy people and that is not desirable, but he is not being abused.

[ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight]

I'm sorry but living with that level of aggression and walking on eggshells is emotional abuse. He is absolutely being abused and you need to accept this.

[ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight]

Your H involves your children in his abuse of you. That is abuse of them.