Can you be in a relationship you think is great but is actually abusive?

[evanescence]

My counsellor told me today she felt my ex was abusive, my captor in fact.

I never saw him that way - I saw him as my best friend, partner and the most loving partner I could think of so what she said has be caught off a bit.

Is it possible I was being abused and still thought our relationship was wonderful?

Basically he was a very loving partner, affectionate, always talked about everything, kind to me, shared chores, looked after me, never said bad words to me once and treated me in a way that made me feel extremely loved. All my friends and family liked him very much and thought we were so happily settled until he left me which suprised everyone. Especially me.

The convo with the counsellor today was bringing up some things that niggled at me as I have been quite broken since he left me. The reason he gave for leaving me was basically that he didn't love me anymore because I wasn't the girl he first met. I'd had some depression and gotten a bit down (nothing bad or just a bit down)

I got ill because I was very isolated in our life together. I had to move overseas to be with him and left behind everything. We had young children (some his some mine) and I found it hard to adjust.

Basically he didn't include me at all in his life once I moved and nothing was as he'd promised.

He was very loving to me, and when we were together it was fantastic but he was away quite a lot and quite selfish really.

He went to work, I was a SAHM for the first time ever. I had no friends locally, but he never invited them over. We had my children all the time, and his children every weekend and he would never get a babysitter (he said it made him feel guilty to have his children and get a babysitter) so we never went out. We never had a weekend off from his kids so I think in the four years we lived together I went out probably 3 times and he invited his friends over once.

He had quite an active life...sports clubs, social activities with his old friends and even weekends away with his mates occassionally but because these groups were mutual with his ex wife I was never included as he felt it was arkward and he did not want to cause problems with the kids Mum.

We lived in a very isolated place (I am a city girl so that was hard on me too) and while he said we could not afford a second car for me, he spent a lot of money on silly things that were less important.

He never expressly told me I could not go anywhere or do anything- in fact when he saw I was down and came home to me crying he would tell me to go and have fun and do whatever I wanted but but the lack of money, car and him being at home and the fact I didn't know anyone made it so difficult so I became a bit of a hermit.

He wasn't ever mean...in fact he always asked if I minded him going to things, but basically I loved him and wnated him to be happy so I said it was ok. Sometimes I asked him to change things or include me more and he'd cry and tell me that he really loved him and he'd die if I lieft him but that his kids had to come first.

He was always making me feel like I was asking him to choose me over his kids.....and I wasn't. I was asking him to treat me like his partner, which he didn't. I felt excluded from his life even though we were meant to be a family.

I never ended up with any sort of life, and I know I was largely responsible but I do feel like he made it really difficult and I am not that good with new people and I'm not sporty or into any hobbies and I get quite shy around people I don't know. In the end it just got me down.

I got fat, I got depressed and then he left me and told me it was all my fault because me being down had drained him and I had become a burden.

My counsellor says he was abusive and manipulative.

If that was true why did I feel so lucky and so loved? I'm very confused.

[BertieBotts]

There is a lot of overlap between Narcs and sociopaths and sociopaths are not always violent. The only thing that is not quite right about the narc thing is that people who live with narcs usually find that it's extremely exhausting because the narc tends to act as a kind of "emotional vampire" and all of the sites say that this takes effect relatively quickly. My ex used to (presumably still does) literally make people ill around him. It was quite astonishing to witness when you look at it in hindsight.

I honestly don't think that the vast majority of abusers are evil. Evil is child murderers and people who are horrifically sadistic for fun. It's not like that in most abusive relationships. These people can be nice, they can be fun, they can be loving and caring and even kind and insightful. It's very strange and difficult to come to terms with.

I am glad you are making progress :)

[BertieBotts]

And my ex, in hindsight, was not even that narcy compared to others. But he was draining, physically so. I can think of at least five people who became ill in his presence not counting myself (I lost weight until I was skeletal) and DS who went through a phase of throwing up for the whole night every time he returned from his dad's. That stopped (after four consecutive times) when I asked my mum what to do and she sent him some healing, which I'm not a massive believer in TBH, but it worked and there were a lot of weird, unexplainable "woo" coincidences like that around the break up. I'll leave that there because I don't want to get massively into that, but it was seriously weird. I am open minded but it was odd.

[Garlick]

I often felt like his coach, explaining simple emotions to him.

Me too, with XH2. His own emotional range was pathologically limited, which I naturally refused to couldn't see until the end. He did anger and hilarity; nothing else. He used words for emotions, but they were empty of content. As was he, basically. He felt upset one time while we divorcing, and thought he was having a heart attack!

XH1 was a fairly textbook narcissist; he had almost too many emotions, especially when they related to his ego. XH2 I think is a psychopath. He uses risk-taking behaviours as a substitute for feelings, and control as his analogue for caring.

[Fuckingstupid2015]

yes, I am

[Atenco]

It looks like your only blame Evan is in being a very, very nice and selfless person.

[Garlick]

Xposts, Bertie :)

It's quite disturbing that she wrote it as a happy song. You're totally right about the difficulty in understanding the dynamics of powerful emotions, though, especially when you're young and experiencing much of it for the first time. God, I wrote some mournful shite as a love-struck young thing Luckily I'm no musician, so never had the opportunity to inflict it on others!

[evanescence]

Garlick I think they were quite similar then, he also had a really weirdly small range of emotions. He did feel empathy and sorry for things but had to ave it spelled out and explained like a foreign language sometimes. He said all the right words though...like right out of a romance novel.

I think atenco it's nice of ou to say that but also not true. My counsellor asked me today also what was in it for me.

Being honest, I was aware I had no life and did nothing to help myself. I enjoyed being adored, worshipped, told I was beautiful, fawned up, bought gifts. It appealed to me more than it should have and the fairytale I lived in was not real...I played the martyr with as much gusto as he played his role and I do think to some degree being looked after was running away from life.

Not intentional on my part but so many signs were there and fear motivated me.

[trackrBird]

I just want to reassure you again that no amount of boundary setting or standing up for yourself would have helped.

Someone with little emotional range, stunted empathy and a stunted conscience is never going to turn into a truly loving partner. The capacity just isn't there. He had to learn it all by rote: how to look like a caring person to others (charity work); how to appear like a caring lover (say lovely things, or borrow words/actions from a romance novel) - but the intent behind the lovely appearance was entirely missing.

So I hope you can take comfort from the idea that he couldn't love you properly because he did not have it in him. All the superlative words you're using - worship, adore, perfect, idolise, wonderful - they show how unreal it was, how much of a performance it was for him.

You can find real love. Don't be afraid you won't. Most men are normal and healthy, with a full range of emotions. Not perfect or amazing, just great human beings.

[saltnpepa]

It seems clear to me that he was a narcissist and you were a codependent, these go very well together. Have a read online about it because it will help you in the future.

[evanescence]

Thanks all. I've taken a lot from the thread so far and will read it all again.

[Twinklestein]

Underneath all the lovebombing it's just a bog-standard pattern of isolation typical of emotionally abuse.

You couldn't go out, you weren't allowed transport, you weren't allowed a social life, you couldn't even mix with any of his friends.

However much he told you you were a princess or special or bought you flowers, you were completely trapped.

He took more care than other men to cover his tracks, but the bottom line is the same. It was because he covered up well that you stood it for so long. He knew exactly what he was doing.

[Twinklestein]

And no he wasn't basically a kind person, he was basically an arsehole who put all his energy into appearing to be a good guy rather than actually being one. No-one but a complete arsehole does not introduce their partner to their friends and socialises without them.

He has a touch of the Jimmy Savilles - I don't mean the paedophile element - but the obsessive, overt, attention-seeking charity and do-gooding work, masking a darker side.

He was clever - pay salary into your account but make sure that there was no money in there for you to use. Not definitively say you couldn't have car, but spend the cash on bbq equipment and canoes etc, so, whoops, you couldn't go out.

I think he may well have still been involved with his ex wife, or some woman in that circle and that's why he would never introduced you. I'd be very surprised if his endless training and funeral hopping didn't involve OW somewhere.

[evanescence]

I think he loved his ex wife and never stopped loving her to be honest.

She was always the one he was trying to impress and put first.

I was younger and prettier so I think basically he used me to make himself feel better.

He pretty much maintained his life as if he was still married to her. As he does now.

I hope the comment above didn't sound concented, am just being honest in what my thoughts were. I don't have a big head or anything. Total opposite actually and feel pretty worthless.

[evanescence]

A lot of friends actually that he acted like he was still married to her.

Always trying to impress her, expensive gifts for her family members and leaving me out of stuff. He was willing to let my well being suffer so she thought well of him. Most of the events and acitivities he refused to abandon involved either her or her family.

His charity triathlon was in aid of the illness her father had. I felt like a mistress.

He always made it hard for me to complain because he told me it was for his kids and cried. He was always with the waterworks.

He always said to me that he never loved her like he loved me, but I know he was lying. I just believed him at the time.

[Twinklestein]

You don't sound conceited at all, just honest about the dynamic with his ex.

It does sound as if he just continued his life as it had been when they were married. Perhaps she's who he was trying to impress with all the charity stuff.

You may not feel it but you're worth so much more than him.

[evanescence]

I felt great yesterday, but tody really sad. Realising I suppose that the one person I thought really loved me in my life for me didn't love me at all really.

the comments helped a lot though, and I know the counsellor is on the right track.

I probably was codependent. The way he seemed to actually "need" me was like nothing I'd felt before. It was me feel safe. It made me feel like I could do or say anything and he'd always love me. Have never felt that safe or at home before.

I suppose as soon as I moved he did some very funny stuff and I chose to ignore it because what else was I going to do? I'd just uprooted my children to the other side of the world. I had to suck it up, so I think I made a choice to focus on the good and gloss over the reality that he kept absolutely none of the promises he made me.

Like marriage (kept putting it off after begging me to move and marry him), or having a baby together (this was agreed before I moved then he reneged). Everything I wanted and needed was unimportant.

I don't think I was even a real person. He just sucked the love and admiration out of me.

I was so stupid.

[Twinklestein]

Xpost.

It all makes sense now. He sounds obsessed with her. And in trying to prove to her he was a great guy he was an arsehole to you, because nothing was more important to him than her (and himself).

[Twinklestein]

You weren't stupid at all, you were just very manipulated and bamboozled by someone who was highly cunning.

[evanescence]

I had an engagement ring for a year before he let me annouce it publically so as not to upset his ex wife

How can I have been so stupid.

That's not how you treat someone you love.

[Twinklestein]

I don't know if you can be highly cunning - deeply cunning.

[evanescence]

would he have known what he was doing?

[Twinklestein]

Of course he knew what he was doing. Everything he did was calculated.

[Twinklestein]

I think you need to kick him off his pedestal and see him for what he truly is.

And see yourself and an intelligent, attractive, loving woman who got trapped by a manipulator who's not actually worthy to kiss your boots.

His behaviour actually made you ill, and luckily that was the key to the door. The great thing is you're free now.

[Garlick]

That one's quite a tough question, evan. I think people's behaviour is mostly formed by their inner drives - what might feel like a rational choice really isn't, except in relation to an individual's particular drives.

We are conscious animals, though, and we always have the potential to evaluate our actions and question our motives. The facts of your story show he must clearly have known the effects of his (in)actions on you. Therefore he either didn't care, or got satisfaction from it.

Lundy Bancroft, the author of the profiles here, ran perpetrator treatment programmes. He says his clients nearly always knew exactly what they were doing.

[Lostalot]

Passive aggressive personality disorder. Look it up you may find it fits your experiences with his fool x