It's March 2015 and the Stately Home is still open to visitors. Unfortunately I have not been able to make the links work; is it possible for one of you lovely people to do that?.
Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
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July 2014
October 2014
Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.
This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)
So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.
One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;
'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'
Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.
Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.
NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.
You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.
'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.
I started with this book and found it really useful.
Here are some excerpts:
"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.
Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.
Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:
"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.
YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".
"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.
YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".
"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."
"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"
"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."
YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."
"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.
YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."
Helpful Websites
Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
More helpful links:
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
Some books:
Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child
This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:
"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."
Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody
Relationships
But we took you to Stately Homes
AttilaTheMeerkat · 23/03/2015 10:59
Yes, I totally understand.. 
It's only recently I started to reflect on how my friends families are, and whilst some aren't perfect, they are a lot different to mine.
I wonder if they just cannot face the person that they are, and simply take the easy route to blaming others for their inner weakness (as they see it) of depression, jealousy and bitterness. "If it weren't for (such and such person) I would be happy"..
Feeling really down today.
Went for lunch with friends and exB to try and sort things out but it hasn't gone to plan. We've agreed to leave it for a while and see how things are in a few months and go from there.
I really don't know how I am going to cope- they have been my support net for a long time and who I have turned to for support when things go wrong. I've never had to stand on my own feet before and the thought is terrifying me. Plus my heart is broken by some of the things that have been said by exB. I know he doesn't mean it and is saying it out of anger, but it still really hurts.
I guess I made a mistake by trying to move on. As much as they have been there to support me- they have also treated me like a doormat for so long and I decided to stick up for myself. I really, really didn't expect things to work out like this though. I thought they would be more supportive :(
At least I have work tomorrow, Friday and Saturday to look forward to. I texted my manager yesterday saying we needed to talk, and it isn't a problem with her I know it isn't, but I'm just at a loss as to whether to open up to her. She does care I know she does...but there's part of me that is still hesitant because of what she has going on and the fact it's work. Has anyone had a close relationship with their boss in the past and can shine a light?
It's really, really thogh not having a Mum you can turn to sometimes 
Pocketsaviour: thank you for replying to me. Yes, she has hit me a few times and left "evidence" shall we say. I can't report her. She is my mum, and deep deep deep down I love her and don't want to destroy her life (and because of the career she had, it will)
I work voluntary, unpaid. It doesn't matter to me though because I love what I do and when I'm ready it will open doors for me to move into paid employment.
Dad is about but sweeps everything under the carpet and ignores it. He's a coward really. I know that sounds harsh but there isn't really any other words for it in my book.
And thank you to everyone else for making me feel welcome 
Eskimo I'm really sorry to hear that your lunch went so wrong.. Will your friends not separate your relationship split with just them being friends? That seems very unfair of them and you have to wonder if they are really true friends in that case.
It's very hard to stick up for yourself if you don't usually, people usually act very angry and hurt and lash out, they aren't used to it, but that's their problem and being more assertive will be better for you in the long term.
I really don't know what to suggest, you have quite a lot going on all at once. I think you should reach out to your manager and talk to her. 3 days at work will help to take your mind off this and to confide in her.
Do you have any extended family you could turn to? Rekindle any old friendships, or join any local groups.. just to open up your support network a little more.
Please keep posting here, I'm sorry I'm no good with advice, fairly new to this as well, but things can and will change in time.. 
I guess they are being forced to choose sides roland and they have picked his side- which in a way does make sense as I chose to call it off with him not the other way round. It had to be done though- at 22 I can't be at the beck and call of a 28 year old man who can't even pick up his dirty underwear or cook a meal. I just can't- i've done it for years and it has made me miserable.
I've been friends with them for the good times (which is 80% of the time)- the nights out, the support with Mum etc. They all want to move away out of this town- and a few months a go it is what I wanted to. But i've started this job and I love it- I don't want to go anywhere. They can't see that- and if I give into them and move away I honestly don't think (long term) I will be happy.
I don't want to take on another job- I applied to do more voluntary work a few weeks a go but I just don't think I can face going into a work place without my manager there. I know it sounds daft- I really do, but I can't help the way I feel.
We have been working together six months now- and while she said she wanted me to move jobs with her I really, really can't help in a way that i'm intruding a bit and when I tell her i'm not going to be able to move on for the foreseeable she is going to regret it.
It's tough because I used to talk to my friends and they told me to keep it professional, its work etc etc and I google and google says the same thing. I don't want to make her uncomfortable, I don't want to loose her friendship and I don't want to loose my job- voluntary or not.
But at the same time she says she cares for me and wants to help me so in a way I feel guilty for feeling like this and that I can't confide in her- I don't know if she feels like she's hitting a bit of a brick wall because we both say we are each others friend but I still don't completely confide in her because i'm afraid. Does that make sense?
It's also difficult hearing her say she doesn't want to make any friends in work- she sometimes tells me that excludes me but i'm just not sure because she acts in some ways in the way she does with me. Being professional perhaps? I'm not sure.
It's my first ever job as well so I guess i'm just so uncertain on how things work.
I know it probably sounds insane- but i've just had so little direction in my life i'm walking half blind wherever I go
I seriously hope things get easier as you get older.
eskimo they do get easier yes.
it sounds like this lady really has your best interests at heart and you can trust her, but I'd suggest you don't pour your entire hope and need inot her, if you see what I mean. But it does sound like you can talk to her and that's lovely.
I'd second rolands advice to see if you can rekindle old friendships or make new interests. You have so much on your plate and really need some friends without strings.
good .. there is so much sadness when you want to love and be loved easily with a mother, but you know it is an impossible wish. It's a grief in life
I guess I do Roland- the problem is; I think it's too late to go back and have a professional relationship. It isn't all just me I know that- as I said she was the one to describe me as a friend first, she is the one who takes me for lunch and she is the one who comes and talks to me about things. I think (OK, hope) my anxiety is just getting the best of me and when we chat everything will be OK. I don't know- but I do think it needs to be done. Maybe I should write her a letter?
I have been depressed, i've attempted suicide twice- I had counselling about 3/4 years ago but i'm just too afraid to go back to the doctor to ask for more. The past six months or so I have been coping fine- and now i've hit another rocky patch. It's a big one and it's going to take me a while to get through.
I don't really have the confidence to go and join any groups and I didn't really have any friends at school- the three I suppose you could call friends haven't even contacted me in over 3 years.
Hi everyone, thanks for such lovely replies. I was expecting to be told I was being stupid or 'catastrophising' (DM's usual phrase). 
I feel like I owe you all an individual reply because you really made my day but I wrote them all up and lost the whole thing turns out I can't work mn on a phone! Just wanted to say thank you and I'm here, just have a lot on and not a lot of time to join in but reading everyone else's experiences is really helping.
Hazelnut I agree, just keep going. The 'transitional' phase where boundaries are going up is so horrible, you have to watch them just keep bashing into the walls but people only do the same thing a certain number of times and hopefully then there will be a shift. No one's going to hit their head off the same wall over and over again forever. And if they do (as my Dad seems to ) you have your answer. If you do decide you want contact in the future you'll be re-entering the same relationship unless you keep firm and strong.
Eskimo I've been reading your posts and just wanted to say I'm so sorry youre in the position you're in. I really identify with your 'nice as pie' comment, my mum is kind, funny, and very well respected. The possibility of other people - even my closest friends (as they've grown up with me so know her) beliving me seems so overwhelming I don't even try. I really hope you get something out of talking here.
roland I'll take that cake need it after a hard day.
eskimo Maybe you could write the letter and then decide whether to share it with her or not? Maybe it will help you organise your thoughts a little and then things may seem a little clearer. When I saw a psychologist years ago (for a traffic accident, so unrelated to family), she suggested writing down things, screwing up the piece of paper and throwing it away, burning it, or whatever I wanted. I've got to say, I thought she was a little bonkers saying that, but everything she suggested to me worked and I now don't have a problem with the accident I had that lead to me seeing a psychologist.
The brain is a funny thing, and I'm no psychologist myself, but everything is linked, even one small change someone can have a knock on effect elsewhere, positive or negative. I'm sorry to hear about your suicide attempts, it's not something I know much about, but I can really feel your pain in your posts and I've had some very low times in my life. I was bankrupt a few years ago, I'd split from my partner of 6 years or so and was living back at home whilst I was helping my mum through her 2nd divorce. I didn't consider suicide as I had some great friends at the time, and I'm so sorry and almost angry on your behalf that your mum, ex, and friends can't just be there for you.
Life is bloody hard, and I suspect your boss wants to help you as much as she can. Write that letter and see how you feel about it?
Loveheart I too felt that sense of relief for finally being understood at last! My boyfriend is very supportive and can't understand why my mum is being like this, but he also thinks it'll all work out and go back to normal. I don't think he realises she has some sort of personality disorder and I don't think it'll ever be the same. P.s You may have to fight me for the cake, I need it ALL
Wrote a letter. Still not too sure . I guess i'll make my mind up tomorrow.
roland it's lovely finally feeling like someone can see the same thing as you isn't it? I have the opposite problem though - he understands how she is doesn't expect it to end. He comes from a dysfunctional family himself, and just gets on with it. He's very good at taking things a day at a time but I get very overwhelmed with the fact it will never end. Hope your day got better and you got some real cake - I got chocolate
lottieandmias I understand about the books thing. Sometimes when there are so many huge things it's the things that other people might see as small that hurt the most. The day before I attempted suicide (long time ago) my DM had done something similar (still scared of outing myself 
) don't know why it was the last straw but it hurt more than all the bigger things. I suppose with the huge things you can say 'no I'm definitely not going crazy' but with the constant comments or disrespect for how important things are to you etc it feels more like you might be overreacting.
Loveheart I got party rings lol, pretty much on par with cake in my opinion! I hope you are doing okay today?
Lottie I'm sorry to hear you have had such dysfunctional relationships. It must be hard knowing what to do or not to do for the best. Good to hear you are going to do the freedom programme! It's very hard coming to terms with someone else damaging you, I hope you find the programme helpful to you.
Everyone else, hope you are all okay today 
or 
if it's a bad day!
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