Is it a relationship if your partner never touches you on a daily basis

[wondering2]

and mostly sleeps with you only if you initiate it (though the sex us then good or at least I think it is!)?

This is what it is like with my h. Asked him to give me a squeeze yesterday as we were lying in bed chatting (I had my arms around him but he generally he just lies there or gives my hand a squeeze which feels like I am making all the effort) and he started complaining (I guess it feels like a straitjacket if someone asks for attention in that way). He said him just being there was a kind of cuddle (yeah right). I pointed out that he had no problem cuddling the dc (which he really doesn't, he is very affectionate with them) and he said that they are special. When I looked at him like (aren't I special to him too??), he said he meant that they are little.

Anyway, apart from making me feel he can't be bothered and doesn't really care, it also makes me feel unattractive.

It's ok at home. He can be bad tempered / negative but that has got better (with occasional outbursts) because I have (and it took a long time and was hard) re-drawn some of the boundaries. He is still the way he is in the way he thinks however, though he may express it less.

The atmosphere is ok these days and we can be reasonably chatty (there used to be a lot of silences but they are of much shorter duration now). The kids are noisy and we are noisy with them. I think it's ok. I was crying last night in bed but in general I am okay. H has his head buried in a computer and sometimes seems divorced from what is going on around him though he cooks some of the meals at the weekend and will break away from the screen to say nice things to the kids.

I think he is a loner and being surrounded by so many people is not really his thing - or having someone (like me) dependent on him is not his thing, and I am a bit co-dependent.

He is not a cold-fish with the dc at all and is always talking about how amazing they are, but he is very detached from me.

I guess I am hoping that if I am happier in myself I won't feel this constant yearning. This might means he feels a little less pressured to be affectionate and he might do it more naturally but I am not holding my breath!

I'm sorry but, if he can choose to be demonstrative towards the children and say nice things to them and about them, he is choosing to not be demonstrative towards you. It's a choice.... so why has he made that choice? What does he get out of it? I have to say that I don't like the sound of someone who is bad tempered and negative with occasional outbursts. I don't think any relationship is working if you find yourself 'constantly yearning' or crying. You may have set boundaries on his bad-temperedness but, if you know it's still there under the surface, how is that any better?

I also worry that if you set about finding ways to be 'happier in yourself' you are going to seriously struggle if you are forced to spend a big part of each day with this man. It's clearly draining.

You say you'd never leave and you clearly find the idea alarming. But have you ever seriously looked at the practicalities of separation? Done a little research? You say you're worried that you'd only see your DCs 50% of the time if there was a split. Would you really? Would a stressed, work-obsessed man really want to spend half his week being in sole charge of children?

In the light of information on your other thread I'm sorry but you are not being treated as an equal partner in this relationship. It sounds as though you are on the scale somewhere between a domestic appliance and a pet.... not a respected human being with opinions, thoughts, feelings, needs. You've provided some children but you're irrelevant to him otherwise.

Sorry

Hi Cogito

Thanks for your answers (on both threads!). Answering what you have said here, I agree that I find my relationship draining (not least because I stay up late to tie in with the times h goes to bed, only to lie there resentful when he comes up to bed and goes instantly to sleep).

I don't know why h does not say nice things to me or behave affectionately.

Could be because his default adult setting is this one (due to the way his parents were with each other etc... and the fact that his Dad was an alcoholic who left when h was 15 etc) and how we was at first in our relationship is an aberration.

Or because he is also resentful about stuff (we have been through some tough times and buried resentments I think rather than really airing them, in any case h is difficult/impossible to talk to).

Or because he has gone off me and no longer loves me / finds me attractive...

Or because it is a form of punishment - a power game.

Or because he is completely exhausted by his work and life and does not have the energy / cannot be bothered.

Or - most depressing of all - a combination of all of the above!

Re. being irrelevant - does it still count as irrelevant if the other person does not really understand how relationships "should be"? In his mind, h thinks I have it easy and is envious of the time I have with the dc. He provides the house and works very hard and thinks that if I love him, then being with him is enough (this is me extrapolating, he hasn't actually said this).

If I am kind of generationally (I don't think 12 years counts as a generation but it feels a little like it with him) and culturally different, maybe my expectations of an "equal" relationship actually mean nothing to h. He literally does not understand (I think).

how he was at first (not we was !)

Or maybe h is having an affair??? Don't think there are any real signs (he was getting some texts late last night but then I do too and I am not shagging anyone else more's the pity, just kidding) but you never know!

(Don't really want to shag someone else, but oddly feel that my life is slipping me by and with it opportunities for fun / laughter / meaningful communication with someone else.)

that was meant to be more's the pity, just kidding

I don't know why h does not say nice things to me or behave affectionately

Naive question wondering Why haven't you found this out yet? This is fundamental stuff, not just mundane, this is at the very heart of your relationship. I was in a LTR with a man who would cuddle, kiss, fuss over his niece and nephew, but to me he was a cold fish. He said he needed space.

I eventually told him he could have as much space as he wanted....as I headed towards the door!

Any, or combination of, the scenarios you have listed are possibilities that can be explored. You deserve a straight answer so you can set your own life expectations accordingly.

I eventually told him he could have as much space as he wanted....as I headed towards the door!

That must have felt really liberating daisy.

I find h difficult to talk to and in the past when I asked about the affection etc... he used to say that the house was messy (it is not particularly tidy now but it used to be a fair amount worse). It then used to degenerate into an argument about this. i cannot express to what an extent he is difficult to talk to about anything "controversial" as he quickly becomes cross / defensive / uncommunicative. When I say that he is able to show the kids affection he says that they are children and I am not. He might also recently have said that he does not need hugs etc.. ( I suppose that's where he could compromise if he wanted to but that's not his strong point).

He will at times hold my hand in bed if I grab his hand first that sort of thing, but he will rarely make any kind of gesture of affection towards me. Rarely in bed that is, absolutely never during the day. 1.5 years ago he gave me an unasked for hug when I was about to go away for 2 weeks with the dc. That's how bad it is, I remember specific instances .

I totally agree about setting my life expectations. That's the point I want to get to, confident enough to find out where I stand etc..

In the meantime I also want to live my life because that's the problem with all of this, I sometimes focus on it to the detriment of other stuff.

'if the other person does not really understand how relationships should be'

All that matters is what you think a relationship should be . I know what I think a relationship should be and the people I choose to be with share my opinion. If they have very different ideas to me, they don't last. Whatever his understanding or upbringing, If your husband's idea of a relationship is totally at odds with yours it means you're incompatible. It doesn't mean you have to compromise.

I'm genuinely sad for you that you remember isolated incidents of affection because they are so few and far between.

It sounds like he deliberately derails the conversation by throwing stuff back at you - sort of, well the house is a mess, so I'm not going to "pat you on the head" and reward you for being good.

Genuinely you do deserve to be treated with respect, and cherished, you are his DW and the mother of his DC and yet he is treating you no better than a stranger in the street.

It was liberating to create distance, when I left, it was all I could do to get the message across, but by then it was too late to do anything else. So I feel for you and your situation a lot. If only your DH knew how lucky he is!

Thanks cogito and daisychain.

If only your DH knew how lucky he is! I sometimes think that too but on the other hand maybe he would just be happier without me. I guess it's hard to conceive of the fact that someone might actually not want to be with you. It's really hurtful to be rejected in that way because after all I am all that I have so if that's not good enough where does that leave me?

I would much rather he told me how he felt and that we mutually agreed to split up if there is no point in carrying on, but he is never going to do that. I guess there are a lot of grey areas in a lot of relationships, but certainly his detachment from me would seem to indicate that he doesn't particularly need me want me. Sounds like a pity party but I don't mean it in that way.

It sounds like you would consider splitting, but only if he initiates it. If you wait for him to give you his reasons, it sounds like you will be waiting a long time. So maybe doing what I did isn't such a bad idea. But only you can decide that.

In an ideal world we would split (despite the pain) as we would then be able to grow / develop in the way we wanted to I could find someone to have a equal, tactile and communicative relationship with, but seeing as the children are involved I think the trauma would be unbearable. I don't think I could get through the bit in the middle. I also think h would make things as difficult as possible.

an equal

Such selfish and self absorbed men are bloody difficult but no obstacle to splitting is insurmountable. I do not also think they would be unduly traumatised by a split particularly if they saw you as being a lot happier going forward. I cannot also see him wanting anything like 50-50 time (and that is just a starting point anyway, not an absolute) re these children either.

Better to be apart and happier than to be together and miserable as you are now. I can see what he gets out of this but you, what do you get out of this relationship?.

Look into the practicalities of separation and seek legal advice so you know more going forward as well.

I would also suggest you read "Co-dependent no more" written by Melodie Beattie.

There is no painless solution to your problem. Whatever you choose to do next will involve some kind of trauma to one or more of the members of your family. If you maintain the status quo, even allowing for your plan to pursue a more separate life, the brunt of the pain will be yours but your DCs are also likely to experience the coldness and sadness in your marriage second-hand.

I'm sorry you are so much held down

wondering so much of your post resonates with me. I have a workaholic, self-absorbed (stbx) dp who is a cold fish. He's also very affectionate to dd. I tried to give him the benefit of the doubt, particularly when I discovered a very affectionate to another woman. I'm a bit of a cold fish too, to be fair. Was it me? Was it his upbringing? Work?

No, he admitted he couldn't give a stuff. I'm gutted, shocked, angry.

I hope this isn't your relationship. But I have a feeling it may be. Good luck

Hi there
I can completely sympathise. My husband is not remotely interested in me physically and actually seems to find me repulsive. We've been married for 18 years. Looking back now I realise that it's always been like this but I suppose I've ignored it rather than face the truth because we have three children. Now though I have met someone and have been having an affair for the last six months. I feel like a new person and realise how unconfident and dispirited I had become. I know many people will consider me to be in the wrong as he is married with two children of his own but is it wrong really to want someone to touch you, talk to you even? The other day I found out my grandfather was dying when we had just gone to bed - we were very close. My husband carried on reading his book then went to sleep whilst I cried beside him. I feel like my marriage is over but don't know what to do.
A lack of a physical relationship means basically that you are flat mates not more, i think. I can't remember the last time we had sex.
I can't speak to my husband about our lack of physical relationship as he shouts and says its me when I know I'm always the one to initiate it. It's not just the children either as when we went away for the weekend he read the paper.
Now though I am tense and stressed because of my affair so I probably wouldn't recommend that as a course to follow. Sorry if I'm not very helpful but sometimes knowing you aren't the only one with a relationship lacking in physical elements may make you feel like you're not the only one. I don't know

"I feel like my marriage is over but don't know what to do. "

If your marriage is over, end it formally. Divorce can be relatively simple and quick if everyone is amicable and cooperative. Divorce can result in two happy households for children rather than one miserable one. If you're engaged in an affair and all it is resulting in is you feeling tense and stressed then I'm not going to moralise but it's clearly not a practical solution to your problem and it's causing further damage to you emotionally.

I admit I am a man, but I wanted to add to your post in regard to "Jokey hugs". When I was younger I dated a girl for several years and I was a giver of "jokey hugs". Eventually she told me she doesn't like me thinking I can just come up any time and touch her body. So I stopped. Fast forward six months or so... I get "why don't you touch me anymore!?" I of course say "you told me you don't like me randomly touching you." a fight ensues the relationship never quite recovers from it and eventually fails. 20 years later, I'm still confused. I just wanted to share that story for anyone reading through this.

Very weird that my thread has been resurrected!!

Anyway, by way of an update, I started divorce proceedings in 2017 after being estranged (but in the same house) from exh since the Autumn of 2016. He eventually moved out in 2018.

i have been single ever since, but my divorce is one of the best things that has happened to me.

i started from the beginning and was very invested and glad to see the outcome and that you are happy. I read because I feel in a similar situation. Sigh.