engagement ring

[chesram]

Hi I have recently had a mutual split with my fiancé. We got engaged 10 months ago. She said that if our engagement didn't work out that she would keep the ring and give me the money I paid for it. The ring was £1600-of which I paid £1000, she paid the rest.
When I asked for reimbursement she refused, I reminded her of what she agreed and she said " that was before I put £600 towards it".
She has kept the ring. Is that fair?

[WoodenGo]

The resale value of the engagement ring will be significantly less than you paid for it. You would be unlikely to recoup your 1k even if you get the ring back.

[CogitOIOIO]

Some might say it's morally wrong to expect someone to pay towards their own love token... Did she pick one that went way over budget? Was it a mutual decision for her to chip in?

[Lonecatwithkitten]

As Wooden said resale value is much less at auction you would probably get about one fifth of replacement value. Having been through the legal finances of a divorce all jewellery is regarded as a gift and not an asset.

[CheeseBuster]

Tbh it was a bit tacky that she had to pay towards her own ring, although i completely disagree with sanity. Even if the guy breaks it off you should give it back. "compensation" is not a word to be used with matters of the heart in my mind.
Im at pp making her daughter jewellery out of a token of failed love. How nasty.

[CupidStuntSurvivor]

Why is it you actually want it back???

[Shockers]

You say 'mutual split', who actually suggested it first?

I've had two engagement rings before the one that mattered . I offered both back. One took it and gave it to his mum; the other said to keep it. I donated it to the charity I worked for, who sold it for as much as it was worth to... an ex boyfriend and his new partner!

I thought better of the chap who said to keep the ring. It was a much nicer ring than the other too.

[chesram]

Don't want anything back- im just trying to gauge the general consensus of what is considered to be moral or deceitful.

[Shockers]

Cheese, not if the person who gave her the love token was her daughter's father...

[oswellkettleblack]

No offense, but was being tight a reason why the relationship broke down.

[Glittery7]

Let it go. She's a bitch and it's small price for being rid of her.

[Shockingundercrackers]

I think the form with broken engagements is that one offers to give one's ring back but the gentleman will hear none of it. That seems the decent thing to do. At least, that's what happened to me. I didn't have to pay for my own ring though.

My advice: Let it, and her, go OP.

[CheeseBuster]

shockers yes i guess that's different. I automatically read it as her ring being from the same situ as OP and DD from new partner/husband. Still would've given it back and suggested to the father he had something made for DD.

[CupidStuntSurvivor]

So you don't want it back but you do want her to reimburse you for the cost of your proposal? Would you have gotten engaged to her if she didn't put £600 towards the ring?

[KeatsieMincePie]

I think the form with broken engagements is that one offers to give one's ring back but the gentleman will hear none of it. That seems the decent thing to do.

This is my understanding too.

I can't say I see anything immoral or deceitful in her keeping it.

[KeatsieMincePie]

Are you trying to decide what kind of person you should remember her as? I don't think that matters very much. For one thing, she'll be in your past, and for another, how you remember her will change over time.

[dirtybadger]

Wouldn't occur to me to offer an engagement ring back. Not out of kindness anyway. Maybe anger. It's useless (I assume they wouldn't want to use it for another person? That would be weird) so only worth whatever value it is. It happens to be the property of the woman (generally) but really you might as well start totting up who spent what on what. You spent 400 (more than her) on the ring, she took you to Spain that one time, you paid for the dogs vet bill, she got the carpet professionally cleaned when you moved house. Really not worth it for what you would now get for it. It's just another expensive thing you bought together.

[Mumtobenovember]

She paid towards her own ring?...
And they say romance is dead

[Tobyjugg]

Traditionally, she keeps the ring.

[radiobedhead]

Mumsnet is a funny place. All money is family money unless it's to do with outdated traditions and jewellery.... God forbid a couple spend joint money on a ring - some couples even discuss engagements and marriage together and not everyone awaits a proposal -- the horror!!

OP, your ex is being mean. Considering your short engagement you should sell and split the money fairly.

I think it you were married a long time I would feel it fair you both kept your rings.

[CupidStuntSurvivor]

They didn't spend joint money on a ring though. She spent 600, he spent 1k. So they obviously don't practice 'family money' and have separate finances.

[sykadelic]

Morally... for me it would depend on the length of engagement and length of relationship... but then I'm also aware of the tradition where the woman buys an engagement gift for her man as well (I didn't, i paid immigration fees - my sister bought her fiance a bed)

Really, as others said, it's thought of as a gift, a symbol of a promise, not a contract. However you could argue (and some have tried) that it IS a contract and if the contract is not fulfilled (marriage) then it needs to be returned...

Your argument could be that it wasn't a gift, or indeed an engagement ring at all... it would be that you "loaned" her $1000 for this ring, and there was a clause in that "loan" that said if she married you she wouldn't have to pay it back. You could try and claim it back in small claims court but you'd need proof and honestly most people would hear "engagement ring" and think you're SOL.

Try and just be happy that you're out with "only" $1000 and the knowledge that if she tries to sell it, she's highly unlikely to get $1600 for it.

[Bogeyface]

I paid the entire amount for my engagement ring as I had just had a bonus and H would have had to save up, just made sense for me to pay for it.

Why the suggestions that he is unromantic or tight?! If he had a £1000 budget for a ring (which is not an insignificant amount, its double what I paid for mine) and she set her heart on a more expensive one that she was happy to pay the extra towards, I dont see the issue.

Apart from the fact that he has a penis so is automatically in the wrong

Morally OP I think it is difficult because you both paid towards it, had you paid all of it then yes I do think she should offer it back. But in law there is nothing you can do. She wont get much for it tbh, a couple of hundred if she is very very lucky.

[WoodenGo]

There is rarely a thread started here by a man that doesn't at some point have someone point out that they think the answers would be different if the op was female. Bullshit.
The op has basically asked if ex fiancee should return the ring. Some think yes, some think no, that's all. The waters have been slightly muddied by the fact that exf has paid towards the ring. OP has made his stance quite clear, he has used the words immoral, deceitful and untrustworthy. Why he needs back up from a bunch of strangers on the internet is his problem.

[coolaschmoola]

I get the feeling that the op wanted us to agree with him so he could show his ex that Mumsnet think she should hand it over.....

[BringMeTea]

I have a story. My friend's brother got engaged. The minute he proposed she handed him a piece of paper with her ring requirements written upon it, how many carats, cut, best place to get it made etc. He was a little taken aback but in love and wanted to make her happy etc. Ended up costing around 30k.

Fast forward a few months.... She announces she has had their 'charts' done (not entirely uncommon in their culture but she was a lawyer so an educated woman) and that they weren't a good match and the wedding was off. A few weeks later he asked for the ring back as he had used a lot of life savings for it and she refused point blank, actually getting angry that he had the temerity to ask. As a lawyer obviously she knew he had no recourse. Was she unreasonable? I think so.