"But We Took You To Stately Homes!" - Survivors of Dysfunctional Families

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

It's July 2014, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
February 2009
May 2009
January 2010
April 2010
August 2010
March 2011
November 2011
January 2012
November 2012
January 2013
March 2013
August 2013
December 2013
February 2014
April 2014

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller

Personality Disorders definition

More helpful links:

Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker

Some books:

Homecoming
Will I ever be good enough?
If you had controlling parents
When you and your mother can't be friends
Children of the self-absorbed
Recovery of your inner child

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Happy Posting

Quite right.

If you enter into House discussions you are just opening up again.

Another e mail: "Have found the lawyer´s details and put the sale in the hands of an agent who it seems is your landlord. he will do photos etc next week."
That's all it says. I think she's mistaken about the agent being my landlord, I think it's the slimy agent we went to but didn't go through. Or may be the agent we actually found this house through, actually. But he's not my landlord.
Ignore and ignore, right?

Right. Ignore and ignore.

Maybe she'll actually go this time. She'll have been here nearly ten years and not one single friend or even acquintance...says a lot doesn't it? What a fucking waste.

You know what she reminds me of? Many years ago I was babysitting for my 6YO nephew. We needed to go out, but we were going to be a long time in the car, so we wanted him to go to the loo before we went. The other two babysittees went, but he chose to lock horns on the issue. He refused point blank to go and sit on the toilet to see what would happen (I don't insist they wee - I just insist they try). He just stood, face like thunder, arms crossed, in the hall.

I took out my phone and told him if he wouldn't at least try, I'd have to call his mum to pick him up. He wavered but didn't move.

I told him I was dialling the number, and he looked concerned, but didn't move.

I started dialling random numbers on my phone. I got to about 5, and he suddenly darted up to the loo and did a mammoth wee. I put my phone away, and nothing more was said and we got in the car.

This is what your mum reminds me of. 'I'm dialling the number...' in order to get you to break down and do what she wants after all, which, in this case, is simply talk to her.

The thing is, what's vaguely acceptable when you're dealing with a stubborn 6YO who really thinks he knows best but doesn't, isn't appropriate behaviour when you're dealing with a grown adult who gets to decide for herself who she talks to and where she goes and what she does.

Don't get sidetracked by whether there's a mutual person who happens to know the situation. It's another case of 'I'm dialling the number...' So bloody what if it is your landlord? If you've never given him any trouble, he's not going to give a rat's arse about anything your mother says.

She's trying to get a rise out of you. Don't give her the satisfaction.

That's a good analogy. Dbro described her as a giant toddler, throwing tantrums if she doesn't get what she wants instantly. Yes, the landlord comment is neither here nor there. He isn't my landlord anyway. I'm not responding to anything today (and probably not ever). What's the point? What on earth would I say? She'll just wheedle and manipulate and thunder and lie. She won't even hear what I say.
Ironically, you all know from my posts on here, I never intended to go full NC but she has backed me into that corner with her behaviour.

Good, you are doing brilliantly. Keep ignoring. And yes: the NC is her doing. You tried to avoid it -- she has brought it on herself.

I'm really sorry to break in with a rant, but really getting angry at the moment. It seems that having less contact with mum (it was every day, several times, for years) has brought a lot of fury with it. I'm so hurt and angry at all of it:

The incredible pressure to do well at school. The harassed teachers, the enlisted specialists, the absolute hysteria about my abilities. The fact that doing really well at something only brought more expectation. And yet I was also deemed to be excessively fragile and vulnerable and in need of protection. My mental health issues were proof of this, and proof that I was a difficult child and a burden on her.

Now, the total reversal of history. The visceral objection to women "being feminist" and having ambition. The sheer worry in her voice if I have an opportunity to do well. I've stopped telling her.

The threadstalking, the grudges, the outpourings of anger about people who've stepped out of line in some way. The obsessive speculating about others.

The emotional blackmail. The oppressive love, the gifts with strings, the screaming anxiety if I dropped out of touch for a day. Although this seems to have switched off entirely now I'm less available. Now it's very easy not to be in touch. Illogically enough, that hurts too.

My dad, pinging between affectionate, solid and comforting and distant, cold and sarcastic. He's gone quiet now.

The fear that she'll somehow find this and identify me and be deeply and permanently wounded.

And now I'm all terrified and guilt-ridden!

thecardinal it's all such a headfuck, isn't it? You can never relax, there's always a big black cloud of something lurking. "The emotional blackmail. The oppressive love, the gifts with strings, the screaming anxiety if I dropped out of touch for a day. Although this seems to have switched off entirely now I'm less available. Now it's very easy not to be in touch. Illogically enough, that hurts too." I identify with that so much. The smothering when you're doing exactly what she wants like a puppet but actually not really being interested in any meaningful way. If I'm ill she couldn't really give a bugger if it interrupts her mad internal self obsession. If she's ill the world must stop, I must rush to her bedside.
I think your mother sounds like mine, a lot. I don't think we are real autonomous beings to them, we're just a facet of themselves. I actually think when my mum is off on one of her rages she thinks I can read her mind. I know that sounds silly but it's like she forgets I'm a separate person and so things she's has only thought she sort of thinks I know, she assumes I will react the same way as her.
Another call and a voicemail "will you ever speak to me even to tell me why" or something...made Dh listen to it. Now this e mail:
"I don´t even know if there has been a car crash and you are all dead. What do I do now? Contact the police? DH´s parents? Will you at least send a message to X to confirm if you are all right?"
What do I do? E mail back I don't want to talk to you.

What do I do? E mail back I don't want to talk to you.

No. She's hoovering. If she wants to check you're alive, she can ask your brother. You don't need to send a message via him - he knows you're alive - he can confirm it to her if she was to, I don't know, ask him maybe?

She is dictating to you how to deal with it 'leave a message!' ergo 'talk to me!'

There really is no need.

She's just phoned DH's parents.

Cardinal, I was utterly washed out with rage after stopping contact with my Dad. It took a few months, and then I was in a seething rage about it all.

It was almost as if, when I'd stopped having the emotions that he controlled - the sympathy and guilt and worry about him and so forth and so forth, I started having all the angry emotions that I should have been feeling all along.

Therapy helped a lot.

Don't rise to it, Goodto. She's triangulating.

Also, be prepared for 'I just thought I'd let you know, I've had to go to the hospital for chest-pains...'

Headfuck is exactly the right word, Good. And I feel both stupid for only starting to think now that my parents' love might not be 100% pure and unconditional because it's always been about love and self-sacrifice and concern, and I've never had my safety threatened or my physical integrity infringed and incredibly traitorous for thinking it. After all, I am not an easy person. In fact I'm damn difficult: although for all that, my DH, who chose me, seems determined to keep loving me anyway :)

"A facet of themselves." That makes so much sense. My mum complains to me about other people who don't agree with her, and she seems to assume I'll automatically be on side, even though I keep saying well, I'm a feminist/I don't like X either/I believe Y, as it happens. It's either total disbelief that I wouldn't agree with her, or a sideways way of getting at me without coming out and saying it. Not sure which.

I agree with Looking. Definitely leave it. I think that's not about knowing if you're OK that can be verified perfectly well but about making you get in contact.

I've sent an e mail "we're all fine".

Looking, that makes sense. Thankfully I have good pastoral support. I still have a hard time really calling on it when I need help (a sort of "mustn't bother the doctor" mentality), and then an even harder time admitting to what I see as ugly or unworthy feelings. But I am improving. These threads have been such a kick in the arse in that regard.

Heh - when I was younger, my Dad signed me up to the Labour Party. I was very surprised when the membership pack arrived for me. I had previously assumed that people were allowed to choose their own political allegiances.

He was very surprised that when he cancelled both memberships, I didn't follow him dutifully along to UKIP.

Oh God, Good, just saw your updates. Ringing your ILs... not surprised you sent an email just to make it stop. Awful when other people are brought into it.

good ..... no more contact. Not even for that. Because by responding you're feeding her and she;ll up the ante until you respond again. And again. And then you'll be sucked in.

Remember what she said about you and about your children. About how you didnt want her for christmas day. I suspect that it might be fading becuase 1) you're a very nice person and 2) you're conditioned to let the stuff you should be angry about fade.

She will keep on upping the ante. She may harass acquaintances. The best you can do is, if she does, is to apologise to them and ask them to say nothing.

Secondly, plan how you will handle it if she turns up on the doorstep. Actively plan it with your husband.

Remember, all this nice little old woman act has a very vicious and cruel undertone. She isn't what she wants you to believe. she is not a nice woman.

By the way the reason it feels surreal is because there's been a giant shift in the emotional landscape but ordinary everyday practical stuff is still the same. Habit's a huge force and when there's an unheaval it takes a while to adjust.

Same after a death, especially unexpected.

Yes, I am concerned she will come to the house and make a scene and upset the children. Her rages are easier to deal with in a way than the pity parties.

She's so transparent. Rage hasn't worked to bring me to heel, so now it's tears. Now she's gone quiet, planning her next move.

fuzzy ... from what I gather, it's certainly possible that you are sabotaging yoruself, but it's possible you're not, too.

I don't think there are any clear answers. Some people get preg at the drop of a hat. Some people don't get pregnant no matter what.

I am starting to feel that unless i can really start to believe I deserve a family it won't happen, I am so terrified of becoming my mother......

It's notorious that anxiety can delay conception though so it really does seem like a good idea to get to the bottom of it. Therapy isn't appropriate for everyone but for you, it seems a really good idea.

Also, pregnancy is not a deserve-don't deserve thing. Life is not that nice. It's way more random.

If it helps, my own story is that I conceived for the first time at 38. Had bad and untreated hyperemesis gravidarum. It mostly comes back if you conceive again and I was so frightened that I didn't dare try again for several years. At 38, that's taking a big risk. At last, I was ready to try again but did not conceive. Started looking at fertility treatment but they weren't willing to discuss how to handle the HG and ... I was too scared. So we left it up to chance or fate or whatever.

Nothign happened.

5 years on we gave up hope, I was 43. I gave away all the baby clothes we'd saved, almost all the babytoys and over some months came to terms with the fact that we wouldn't have another. I decided to concentrate on myself - started swimming and the gym, lost weight on the 5/2, worked harder on my dutch lessons, simply tried to enjoy life more.

You guessed it, one morning I started upchucking and after another frankly fucking awful pregnancy we have our second son. But I'd genuinely accepted that it wouldn't happen and had grieved for that and accepted that it was going to be one of those 'might have beens' in life.

I do believe, a d so do the docs , that relaxing (and getting fit and loosing weight) was the key point. But I had to really face the grief over not conceiving.

I don't think that's the key for you, but I do think that you need to reach peace with your family background and your own fear of yourself. You almost certainly need skilled help with that. Once you've done that you'll be able to stop sabotaging yoruself more easily.

Even then you might not conceive because it's not only about the mind. But it will put you in a very good place to face things from there on.

I can see the pressure you're putting on yourself - at early 30's fertility is still pretty good. This pressure won't be helping either. You can afford to step back, put a couple of years into therapy and then if necessary look into fertility treatment maybe. Lots you can do.

Also if you do reach a peace with your childhood and the patterns you've learned, you'll be in a better positiion if a baby does come along. Stepping back and looking at things in this way helps you choose to behave differently.

best of luck, lady

good ... how will you handle it if she turns up?

what will you say to her? how will you stop her coming in? How will you close the door on her?

Im sorry to say but you may have to face the possibility of a public scene. How can you help yourself face that?