Breeding or Leaving

[BloodontheTracks]

I'm 33 years old and have been in my relationship for eight years. After that amount of time we've both become a bit bored, we admit it. There have also been infidelities on both sides that we've worked through but they've left their scars, especially around trust. I love him hugely, I want only good for him. He loves me and we respect each other. However, along with the trust stuff, which we've worked very hard to get over, there are other issues. He's depressive and low energy, though he acknowledges this and does his best. But I look for positivity and fun more from friends and family than from him. We don't share the same sense of humour and we're not having as much sex as I'd like. Though he is amazing in a crisis, kind and hugely solid and wise, he's a heavy presence sometimes. I find myself thinking a lot about other relationships, just in theory, not with anyone real, just imaginary.

This worries me as I want to have a baby. He does too but we both feel trepidatious about it, for all the normal reasons I think, plus a little bit of doubt about the 'rest of life' partner aspect.

in short I'm considering us trying for a baby but I always thought that would happen from a place of absolute relationship bliss and strength. Whilst we're not angry or chaotic, it's a bit tired, like some relationships get ten years in and I do feel a bit like I'm settling and there is something a little damaged, a little sad, after an affair I had and his retaliatory infidelities a few years ago.

I know no one can advise this really but I find myself swinging almost hourly between desperately wanting to become a parent with him and fantasizing about leaving and trying to find someone a bit more upbeat, supportive of me, who makes me laugh. I know this sounds immature but it's one of those moments that feels like a potential life mistake, a major fork in the road. We've worked on a lot of stuff so I feel we know the essence of each other. The idea of losing him makes me feel distraught, but the thought of being with him for another twenty years makes me feel depressed.
Has anyone been in a similar position or have any insight into the best ways to stop over-thinking and just act?

[BloodontheTracks]

These different views are very useful. Yes, Honeybadger, the relationship is not weak, it's nor 'fragile' or volatile. It's just a bit sad and constricting and tired and wounded. I have no doubt he would love a child and work with everything to co-parent if needs be. And yes, 33 is an age which requires pushing of things rather than laid back 'see what happens'.

[BloodontheTracks]

Yes, I remember reading that actually if you include those people who describe themselves as 'unhappy' or 'deeply unhappy' in their marriages past a certain point, then nearly three quarters os marriages 'fail' as it were. Splitting up is not necessarily the definition of 'failure.'

[rainbowsmiles]

It sounds to me like you would like to split up but are scared that you might remain childless if you do.

The thing is. ... You only have this life. Try and picture 1 year from now. A perfect picture. Who is there. Don't limit your picture with reality. See it and feel it.

If, in your perfect picture you are with your current man then stay and work your arse off to get the magic back then start on the baby making.

If he is gone and replaced by another faceless but more appealing partner then you stop thinking about all the negatives of splitting up with mr practical and you keep your eye on the perfect picture prize.... You will find it.

[LittleMissMarker]

Also an old gimmer… I was with my DH for years and years (15-ish? I forget!) before we started a family, first child when I was 38. But we started a family because we loved each other and wanted to stay together forever and have kids together. Not because either of us was afraid there wouldn’t be anyone else. My DH actually stressed about whether I had truly chosen him as a father or whether I was just using him because he was there(!) – I told him that maybe I hadn’t expressed it very well but as far as I was concerned the last 15 years had been a long process of choosing him!

It doesn’t sound as if you feel your partner really is your choice of father and it doesn’t sound as if he is very good for you emotionally either. I might have said, give counselling a go to work out if this can be fixed but you’ve already had counselling and your partner isn’t interested anyway. So I’d say this isn’t going to work, full stop. If you stay then you will be repeating a variant of your parents’ experience with your own children. And if you drop him now you’d have five years to find someone better for you and start a family and you’d still only be as old as I was!

[LittleMissMarker]

PS for me the key is "the thought of being with him for another twenty years makes me feel depressed." You're considering starting a family with someone who depresses you? Not good. Maybe try individual counselling to see why you don't expect to get more out of a relationship?

[BloodontheTracks]

Thanks, LittleMM. Sobering.
I had individual counseling after my affair and there's no doubt that my parents marriage was what I perceived as normal and 'love' whereas it was unhappy and disconnected for the most part. I have never seen a healthy, intimate, joyous relationship, not close up. Maybe one or two in passing but you never know behind closed doors I guess. I have obviously been trying to 'repair' or solve that in my current relationship. But my partner is an interesting, kind man, and only like my father in that he's emotionally repressed and a bit low in his moods. I think my parental model is totally projected from me and not fair on him. What makes me depressed is ending up like my parents. But I know I am the one in control of causing/stopping that and I find that really confusing. That I'm creating or causing the thing I don't want. Welcome to psychology 101, I guess.

I've spoken to him about all this and though he completely understands and knows a lot about childhood and psychology from his work, he sort of regrets me telling him because he can't stop thinking about my parents now and how he acts and whether it's like my dad….!

[MaryBennett]

I married my first real boyfriend after years of going out/ dating/living together. We got married in the end because I told him (we were 32 and 33) that I wanted a family. Now he's hard working, kind, intelligent and funny but I yearn for a romance that I just don't have. He never buys me flowers or plans surprises. We don't really fancy each other any more either. We stick together and care for each other (and he's a nice bloke who I think feels equally ground down) but if I had my time again, I would not be here in this house with this life. He makes me laugh and we come from similar backgrounds but I feel I was too scared to look around for excitement.

OP, if he doesn't make you giggle, it's time to move on. At least we can have a laugh usually over our 3 kids. Good luck.

[BloodontheTracks]

That's nice and simple, Mary. He doesn't make me giggle. But he is there for me and makes me think and makes me feel safe.

It's strange how many people would go back and do things differently. But that includes single mums as well as those in grey marriages.

Perhaps regret is a natural part of life. Maybe it depends who you'd rather regret things with!

[TheHoneyBadger]

i wouldn't change anything. i love my son. i don't think 'picture perfect' relationships in your mind's eye are something to base your life on unless you think life is a romantic comedy. but we're all different.

[rainbowsmiles]

Or honey badger it assists in creating the life you really want rather than settle for some kind of.... Well what exactly....an expectation of failure, fear of failure or making the wrong decision.

You could also look at it as you have 60% chance of marriage lasting so choose someone you have the best chance of enjoying the rest of your life with.

I would not settle for anything less than picture perfect in my minds eye. Not imagining my life will be perfect but I'll be honest, it's not too far off it. A love filled life of joy and laughter. I do the rocking chair test - every little while and find it works a treat.

[TheHoneyBadger]

no but i'm pointing out there are many different kinds of happy lives. they don't all revolve around romcom themes. many people are happily single or find the person they want to settle down with later in life AFTER having had their children. there are also plenty of women who regret missing out on having children because they thought they had to wait for that version of perfect to have them and there are plenty of kids who could have done with their whole lives not being part of a big romance that when it didn't last turned into a huge drama of a darker variety.

there are lots of ways to live and to do things. lots of orders and forms that happiness-es come in and i'm pointing that out.

as much as holding 'a picture perfect' romantic life in your mind and not settling for less might have worked for you there'll be others for whom it equated to missing out doing things that they later regret because they had a notion of what it HAD to look like to be acceptable.

and if for example having a child is the prime ingredient of the OPs perfect picture (or essential, definite, want to do have/that picture more realistically) then it may turn out that is her priority for happiness

i too find myself pretty happy. i adore my son and being his mother - i like our family of me and him and the dogs and friends. i never met anyone i wanted to marry or settle down with though i had some lovely relationships and at 38 i'm glad i didn't wait for that to happen before i had my son, because it didn't happen. and that's actually OK. this stage of my life, raising a child, being settled, etc is/has been good. there will be other phases of my life that i hope will be good as well. my earlier traveling, adventures, self indulgence and romances phase was good too. there are lots of pictures in a life - one snap shot of a couple is not the destination or the whole of a life's story. life moves.

[bumdiedum]

I really feel for you in this dilemma! I guess it's been around for ages, as in having the affair you've already tried looking for someone else while you're in this relationship. I'd really recommend a book called Too Good to Leave, Too bad to Stay by Mira Kirshenbaum, which is really good in setting out a way to think through whether to stay or go. It's sort of like a flow chart, though I'm not sure everyone who is happy with their guy would pass absolutely all of the things in there! It's practical rather than romantic, but it does help sort your head out.

I do think that idea that somewhere out there is 'the one' is a really powerful draw, and maybe its impossible for any actual real person to totally compete with that. Are you the sort of person who hankers generally? Or is it just with this guy? I suppose it depends what you care most about as well, getting the best or avoiding the worst. If your picturing the perfect life in a few years time to help make your mind up, it's probably worth picturing the worst one as well.

Maybe you could give yourself a time by which you'll make the decision. It's really hard to draw a line under it if it's going round in your head, but whatever you do decide I think you need to trust yourself that you've chosen right, put it out of your head and be positive about it, and not constantly go back to the 'what ifs'.

[MiniTheMinx]

Brilliant advice from HoneyBadger

I agree, life is not like it is in the movies and Barbara Cartland novels.

If I had followed my heart I would almost definitely be a single parent now, because the "one" was quite fantastic but quite unreliable, not at all suited to raising children and putting their needs first.

[rainbowsmiles]

I agree with most of what you write honeybadger. I think there are many kinds of happiness and adapting to circumstance well and enjoying the life you live is key.

I'm not at all suggesting a perfect life is one from a romcom or God forbid a barbara cartland novel although I confess having never read one all the way through, I found them unreadable.

Anyway, no, my idea of a perfect life is very different to anyone else's just as yours is. When I picture my perfect life I don't have a hollywood directors idea of a perfect life. Its a perfect for me life. My husband is very much part of that picture, he always was, even before I met him. The feeling he provides the family is beautiful.

My suggestion is not pulled out my arse it is a tried and tested method and it works for me and plenty of other happy successful people. Sometimes imagining your ideal and really feeling it allows you to see the gap between the life you would like to live and the reality you've somehow ended up living.

The op's relationship sounds quite a bit short of perfect. It sounds fatally wounded to me. I know other women who have used the catalyst of the desire to have children to leave "so so" relationships and it has worked out well for them. I've known others who have had band aid babies and it has been disastrous.

I don't for a minute think there is one route in life and there is no happy ever after. Good choices certainly limit the unhappiness.

[TheHoneyBadger]

oh i see we're cosmic ordering now are we?

[rainbowsmiles]

God no, hate all that bullshit. No, just setting my life up for success.

[rainbowsmiles]

The OPs friends have said that she seems sad. She has cheated and her partner has cheated. She's unsure after all this time whether she wants him to be the father of her children. I'm not sure you need a crystal ball here.

[BloodontheTracks]

Oh honey and rainbow, it's like having one of you on each shoulder. Even your conflict is massively enlightening and helpful. It hurts to see the bald facts laid out as they are above but usefully so. I feel a bit stronger today, I think I've been a bit depressed for a while, trapped in anxiety and non-decision.

bumdidum, thanks for the pointers. I read the Kirshenbaum and interestingly, only fell down on one question. "Do you and your partner have fun with each other without a third 'source' of the fun, like a club or alcohol or a movie..?" That was the one question where I honestly couldn't answer yes, we don't just start playing with and enjoying one another and have loads of fun just the two of us with nothing else, there'll normally be something else we're responding to. But every other question came back yes. In the book it says even answering one question no means you should end it but there are tens of questions and I suppose I haven't accepted that that one thing was enough in reality.

And in answer to your question, no, I am absolutely not a hankerer. I'm very practical with a very dry sense of humor and a rather calvinist sensibility. So you'll find me in the non-fiction section, rather than browsing the Barbara Cartlands…. But that does mean I'm kind of independent and a tiny bit cynical. I can often see the potential issues in a relationship very early on and just assumed that love was about finding someone whose flaws suited you! It's hard for me to make leaps of faith. Something I am determined to work on.

[BloodontheTracks]

I'm going to talk to him this weekend about all this. Thanks and all your advice is really appreciated. Keep it coming.

[TheHoneyBadger]

i think even our names exhibit a different set of values bloodonthetracks (me and rainbowsmiles) all i'm doing is offering the counter view. it's so sad to see women in their late 30's on here desperate to have a child but still hankering after this 'perfect' man.

[Gen35]

It's a genuinely tricky thing. Personally I think you've stayed too long already but I understand that no child is a huge gamble. I don't believe in perfect men either, that's how many women get taken for a ride but I don't think you should settle for grey. You really do only have one life, and you should satisfy yourself you gave it your best shot, not all ltrs are grey, I've been with dh 16 years and he's much more than grey to me.

[BranchingOut]

I have been thinking about your thread a bit more and I think that one side of things is fairly simple - if you want a baby, have a baby. Or at least begin TTC.

Your relationship with your child is not dependent on your relationship with your husband. Nor iis his relationship with his child dependent on his relationship with you.

You appear switched on, self-aware and sensible and have everything within you to love your child and be a good parent. People bring babies into the world in to situations of fear, danger, addiction and abuse - that is not what you are doing. I have just come back from the library - at least two dozen babies were there for rhymetime... Were they all born into perfect relationships? I doubt it. Did they all look pretty bloody happy, full of joy and basking in the love of their parent? You bet!

Put it another way - are you having sexual intercourse? Well, regardless of any contraception, a baby could appear in your life whatever decisions you make. You could be a parent that way, or you could be a parent after months of agonising decision making.

[TheHoneyBadger]

agreed. if you want a baby HAVE a baby.

[BloodontheTracks]

If I get pregnant now I'm going to call the baby 'mumsnet' and charge you all maintenance.



seriously, though, thanks, branch. I'll discuss it with him this weekend and get back.

[TheHoneyBadger]

honestly there could be this man, another man or another 10 men in your future. meh.

but whether you want to be a mother or not - that's a life changer with a window of opportunity and no way to change your mind later.