Do Your Parents/In-Laws Intend for You to Provide Elder Care??

[FixItUpChappie]

I don't mean accidentally because shit happens - I mean intentionally as in that is their retirement plan.

If so, are you okay with that? Is your spouse okay with it? Did you all discuss it in advance or was it just "surprise! we have no money!!"? How did you broach the topic? Do want them to contribute? What about physical care? Do you just send money or do you have them live with you?

More and more (for various reasons) I'm getting the impression that my in-laws spend above their means (think travel-lifestyle), live hand to mouth and have no retirement "plans" per se. They already do a lot of freeloading for lack of a better word. I see some behaviour that signals to me we are going to have an issue. That and they announced to my mother that they are so lucky to have children who will care for them in their old age . Well my DH would be the contender for that job and I know they haven't asked for his perspective (or mine).

Just curious to hear perspectives.

This is a pertinent issue for us at the moment. DF's health has declined massively in last year, multiple hospital admissions, for very serious issues. He has been judged as still having capacity so we cannot do anything about the fact that he is refusing all offers of help (carers, cleaner, gardener, shopping delivered). He just bleats on about living with one of us and trying to bribe us to comply. Both my DB and I have small children (babies in fact, plus I have a 2 year old), we have both had him to stay on discharge from hospital pre-children and it did not go well. My dad is very difficult and argumentative, even before he started showing signs of memory issues and/or dementia.
In his culture children look after the elderly. However, he left his home country 50 years to come and live here. He did not have his parents live with him (and he couldn't stand his own father) and when my maternal grandad was terminally ill he refused to have him live with us.
We discussed it seriously but have decided that he has no patience for things he wants us to do when he's not living with us and that would be much worse if he was in our house.
He is currently in hospital having several times in the last week but will not have a walking aid, or adjust his lifestyle to accommodate his failing health.
My Dsis has had enough and is hiring a cleaner and carers herself to do all the things he is currently trying to lump on us. He will object strongly to this but she has a high pressure job, none of us are in a position to offer more practical help or pay for it so this is what she had decided to do. I am not happy about her spending her very hard earned money on this, but part of me is relieved that action is being taken. It is just frustrating that he has oodles of dosh and could easily afford to pay for it himself.

SIL lives next door to PIL and has benefitted from free daily childcare on tap for years, to the extent that PIL only book holidays when SIL books hers. We live an hour away and have spent thousands in nursery and childminder fees. PIL are fairly well off but won't spend it....their choice.
I expect us to be doing very little.

It also depends what you mean by help. There is a stage where the aged relative needs help to garden, bit of company, perhaps driving but they are still in essence independent and can do things like leave the house, cook,

The trouble is, when you are really at the end ( and everyone is different for how long this stage is) you do need help and have to have it. It won't concern you you aren't near your friends if your dc ask you to move in with the as you are too old and tired to go out anyway and you always feel like this. You can't " help" because getting up and watching a bit of telly exhausts you. The quid pro situation doesn't exist here.

You might not even know where you are sometimes and be more concerned with getting to the loo in private even if it does take you all day. You can't make tea because your hand shakes too much, which makes you a hazard for cooking. You need endless medication and tablets and visits to the doctor to get the dose right. And social workers, hospice people, still have to pay bills and worry about who's having any money, jewellery etc. who will look after the cat/ dog.

Op, are your pils the ones with the RV? I seem to remember a similar thread a while ago.

Thank you for staying this thread. I've been sticking my head in the sand as I'm an only with increasingly elderly, not very well off, parents living at the other end of the country. My PIL live close by but are better off although they come from abroad originally and I have the impression they still haven't entirely given up on the idea of moving back. Both DH and I work full time. We started our family late in life so have small children just at the point that our parents have retired (didn't think that through very well - joking aside it's one of the greatest regrets of my life that we didn't do it earlier but anyway, we have to live with that decision now).

My parents will be coming to visit soon. I will definitely be having a discussion with them. I don't think there are expectations on any sides but as an only child I feel hugely responsible. DH has a brother who lives in the States so I guess would be helpful from an emotional and monetary pov but probably not practical. I guess we need to call him too to discuss.

Great thread, it's been really interesting to read all the differing view points and experiences.

*starting

Agree with cleopatrasasp . My mum is only 63 but has told me she never wants us to look after her. I am glad we have had that talk. my ILs are from a culture where looking after family members is the norm. However they have never saved money and live 200 miles away where DS originates but has not lived for over 20 years. After FIL died MIL made it very clear she wanted to live with us. We said no as we have no spare room, young children and as lovely as mil is I could not live with her. Now several years later, she has full dementia and it truly is as Cleopatra says. She's physically aggressive,incontinent and wanders off. We have had Avery difficult year and finally she is in home. Of course we feel guilty but there is no way we could help her.

We have started to think about this recently. My PIL are no problem; they're comfortably off, sensible with m

Ive supported my mother, who is in her late eighties for years. She lives nearby and is frail, but mentally on the ball. She manages with a cleaner and gardener to keep her home ticking over. We do an online grocery shop for her once a week, so there's no need to drag round a supermarket. She's no longer allowed to drive so has a mobility scooter to get to the post office. Hospital appointments I take her to and once a week we spend a day out together doing whatever she fancies - usually shopping and lunch out. DH deals with all bills and financial stuff. This is a routine we've been in for more than ten years, and mum knows that living with us is never going to be an option. She talks about going into sheltered accommodation one day, if the need arises, and is happy to do so if necessary as she is a gregarious person and saw how happy her own mother was living in sheltered accommodation in her nineties.

money, and they have plans in place for the future which they are happy to discuss with us. They're also still quite active and healthy, although FIL could look after himself better.

My dad refuses to even consider the idea that he might one day be old and infirm He and my SM are in their 60s, both have health issues which, although low level at the moment, could become problematic in the future. They live in a council flat and have no money - my dad will cheerfully admit that he has always been crap with financial decisions.

My only sibling died some years ago :( so I know that it will fall on me to help them out. Ideally I'd like them to move nearer to us at some point in the future (they live 1-2hrs away, depending on traffic). My SM's daughter lives near us too, so it would be helpful all round esp since there is no way I will be providing sole care for her But my dad just doesn't seem to feel there is any need to make plans.

We have decided that DH will take responsibility for his mother and I will for mine. Principally because DH's sister's live abroad and will do diddly squat.

It gets complicated though when you look at people's back stories. All I will say is that neither will ever live with us. We will ensure they are well cared for; we will ensure they are visited and their homes are kept clean, we will ensure they have appropriate nursing care (we can afford this) but we will not be giving up our lives for them although they will be visited weekly when the times comes and any care will be carefully monitored.

My MIL and Mother are 77/78 and both presently fine. The joker is my pack is my mother's comment "if I go first I expect you to look after my husband and your step father". The man who has worked his way through her inheritance, etc.. My reaction to that is "when hell freezes over" but then if it's my mother's last wish can I reconcile myself with that - probably not.

DH and I are approaching mid 50's and have older teenagers and it would be nice to think that the next 10 years will be easier and enjoyable before we start to slow down ourselves. We got no help with children whatsoever by the way. My mother was looking after her parents and did so incredibly - grandma had dementia. The four/five years when she was at home were a huge toll although in the last three or so there was respite care two weeks in every five. After that she was in a specialist geriatric mental health nursing home (I think these are few and far between now) for over five years. I am pretty certain she lived as long as she did becaue mother and grandfather visited daily on a rota to feed her with food from home and give her drinks (in sippy cups after a few years). In the last few years they bought a special vibrating bed to prevent sores, etc. The nursing home was exceptionally good but I still think this went on for so many years because of the additional care they gave. My mother gave up her life at this point, her small business, she refused to help me with the children (I had babies) because my grandmother took priority. So, in a way, I feel I have a duty to care for my mother.

MIL - is DH's to worry about. His sisters will do nothing and she did nothing for her parents except two/three weekends each year when her sister's couldn't and I did the running around and the shopping on those occasions. I once said to her well I'll have to look after my mother when the time comes and she bit back with "well I would never be selfish enought to expect my children to look after me". DH is with her this weekend. FIL died 6 years ago. She does not open the post or do the garden because FIL did that. DH has to go and make sure she is dealing properly with the house. It makes me very cross.

Mum has only asked that I keep an eye on their finances to make sure no one tries to fleece them. Financially and health wise they're ok, mum and stepdad are in their 60's and go out running / do really bloody difficult crosswords etc so I think they'll be ok for many years yet. DSIS is an OT so she'll be in charge of sorting their house out.

My mum lives abroad (in the states) and has some type of insurance plan in place that covers any eventual admission to a nursing/care home that she has been paying on for years. She is very firm about the idea that while she is fine to live on her own at the moment (with some help from a cousin of mine that lives just down the street from her), she is fully accepting of the need to eventually live in a care facility of some sort, depending on what level of care she will need - which is why she got the insurance plan to begin with. She doesn't anticipate moving in with me at all, as she plans to stay in the states (her health wouldn't allow her to travel much anyway, as she does have some ongoing health concerns). She has also been very clear that she does not expect me to uproot to the states to take care of her (which is good, as I couldn't afford it anyway ). I have 3 siblings in the states who are varying degrees of helpful to her, but they tend to squabble over who does what and often expect something in return, which is why she relies on my cousin, who helps her simply because she wants to help.

My father is deceased, so no care issues pending. My stbx-fil is also deceased.

My stbx-mil lives nearby and her only living child (stbxh) has basically flitted off across the country and (in mil's words) abandoned her, even though he knew she had numerous medical problems (and even though her only other child recently passed away). Not sure who he thinks is going to take care of her, but if he thinks it's going to be me, he's in for a horrific shock. I love her, but I am a carer already for my DS and have another child at home as well. I don't have the time or energy to take on care duties for another person. I noticed when she was ill recently and in hospital, he rang me because he couldn't get there. Hopefully he'll man up, because as much as she is a wonderful woman and I do love her dearly, I cannot be her carer or be responsible for her.

So with any luck, that's me out of the carer duties for aging parents (god, that sounds callous, but I don't mean it to be!). My daughter, however, is probably wondering what will happen when I reach that point as it is possible that my DS(her brother) will need long term assistance/care due to his disabilities, although she and her partner have already stated they will take on those duties if/when needed.

It does seem to be a minefield, though, doesn't it? It gets so complicated.

We never had any kind of agreement but sadly my mum died 20 years ago (I really feel i would have gladly cared for her, but never had the opportunity, she died suddenly at 54) and Dad who is now 79 started showing signs of dementia 5 years ago. On the back of my grandfather having parkinson's related dementia, and cancer. As mum was no longer around I had to support him for as long as possible, then arrange his care and eventually, very reluctantly he went into a residential home. Over the last years I have had to take over all of dad's affairs (not once did he give me any clue as to how to proceed, his papers were in chaos I have had to hit the ground running). His house was a tip, added to which he lives with my brother who has lifelong mental illness, for which Dad had obstructed any contact with psychiatry, due to stigma. Dad is now still at home, quite badly impaired mentally, virtually no memory but still in robust physcial health. As I have power of attorney i have found out that his penny pinching ways were probably more due to psychological hang ups than penury, he had quite a lot in the bank and could certainly have afforded a weekly cleaner, not to mention being more generous to Mum back in the day. I digress. I am drawing the line at being his carer, he now has professional carers every day and they also do cleaning (they cost a small fortune). He has always said he'd never go into a home, and when we took him to one after yet another crisis, he did indeed go into meltdown and we had to bring him home.The only way I'd consider being a carer to an elderly person is for a short period of illness with a limited prognosis. Money often gets mixed in with caring plans where the elderly are concerned, but what price sanity? I finished 22 months of counselling back in feb, it was crucial to me as i could feel myself going under with the pressure of it all.

My parents had my paternal grandma live with us when I was a teenager, so we've all seen first-hand what it takes to care for an elderly person with dementia. They have both said that they do NOT want us to do that for them, if/when they can't manage then we need to sell their house to pay the fees for the care home. They're both in their 60s so I hope we've got quite a few years before anything will become an issue, but my brother lives with them so he is likely to be the person who needs to do the most decision-making.

Dp is an only child so both of his parents are going to be his responsibility as they age. He hasn't seen his dad in a couple of years, so he doesn't feel any loyalty towards him and will be perfectly happy to see him live in any care home that can take him, we won't be paying for it either. His mum on the other hand may well end up living with us if needs be. We've already offered her dd2's bedroom (and our dds would then share a room) so that she can escape her abusive marriage, but she's refused so far. She's planning that her husband will die first and then she'll try to stay in her own home as long as possible. She has a pension but it's not much and they don't own the house so she can't sell it to pay for care. If she needs more care than can be provided in her own home then either we will pay for a nicer care home or she will live with us, depending on the level of care she needs.

Smallish children, elderly parents, both of us working, we really can't do the caring which in a couple of years they will need. We can't afford the time or money to care for both sets of parents but they can afford it but they don't want us to "lose our inheritance" they really don't get it.

sixlive - I had to look after my mum with dementia at the same time my son was very small, and I had a part time job. And I was a single parent. By the time my mum died, I was a physical and emotional wreck, and thousands of pounds in debt from all the running around I had to do. (And I didn't have any inheritance as I had agreed with my mother when she was compos mentis that my disabled sister would get whatever my mum left - which was the only possible course of action as I am able to make a living and my sister isn't.)

I don't recommend this as a course of action! If your parents have money, let them use it for care, not depend on you.

FIL is 88 shortly, living on his own abroad with Parkinson's, diabetes, is hard of hearing and losing his sight. He had a fall a couple of weeks ago then last week his neighbour found him with the TV blaring and him oblivious to the smoke detector and smoke from the kitchen (he'd put oil in a pan in a very hot oven.

He refuses to come back though did say the other day he'd give everything to SIL if he could live with her but that's not possible. He's either got a UTI or is getting Dememtia as a result of his Parkinson's. DH is one of 4 but they are crap at sorting situations and were useless when MIL was dying. I have no idea what's going to happen but are clearly rapidly approaching crisis .

My Dad is fine and I think is partner will look after him. I will support this in any way I can though am 100 miles away.

My Mother has Dementia and is now in a Home despite really not wanting to but she wouldn't tolerate the care arrangements we made for her and there was an almighty falling out between my Brother and I at one point. She did expect me to look after her and basically said it was my job as I'm a girl.

How ironic that I have had a letter yesterday from my Aunt who I am back in contact with after my Mother became estranged. Turns out after my Grandad died it was suggested my unmarried Aunt moved up to live with my Grandmother who was relatively independent . Apparently my Mother said there was no way my sister could give up her job (which she hated by all accounts and did subsequently give up) and ganged up on my other Aunt saying my Grandmother had to go into a Home, which she didn't want to do one bit and my Aunt didn't want her to do. My Aunt tried hard witn children and a business to run but my Grandmother contracted Pneumonia. She responded to treatment at first but lost the will to live with all the fighting over her care, refused to eat or drink and died on Christmas Eve.

We need to move Mum though as last week her neighbour in the Home freaked out after a bad dream, hammered in her door then when she opened it, started trying to hit her with his stick. She currently has a flat in the CH but we dan't find another like that. She's very difficult and the CH have clearly had enough. Trying to find a new one is pretty soul destroying and we're struggling. She at least has some choice where to go as has 200k fom the sale of her house which will last for a few years, though not too many as fees for next place wil be 1k a week minimum.

Op, are your pils the ones with the RV? I seem to remember a similar thread a while ago

no, no RV....just endless jaunts to lay around on various beaches. perhaps an Rv would be cheaper though and they could perhaps live in it between parties

My parents sat us (me, DH, DB) down when Dad's health started failing and had a frank talk about their finances, healthcare issues, and future living arrangements. And plans for funerals & inheritance. It was uncomfortable at times to hear them talk about these things, but I thank God they did. They were adamant that we live our lives and not have to care for them, beyond seeing that they were safe and comfortable. Dad passed away at home after a long illness 15 years ago. Mum began slipping into dementia about 2 years ago culminating 8 months ago with her accusing us of stealing from her and DB (who was living with her) of kidnapping and raping women "under her house". She actually called the police at one point. Thankfully, due to 'the talk' we knew that Mum was 'ok' with an assisted living facility and that she had the finances to afford it. It's eating into her capital but there's enough there to last until she hits 103. We don't give a rat's ass about 'inheritance', it's her money it should be spent on her.

If you haven't had 'the talk' with your aging parents, you should do so.

I will support my parents, and do even now (they are 70). I won't be having them to come live with us.

Sounds awful, but I saw the devastating toll on their health caused by looking after my grandad. They both became ill, and even now have never fully recovered. And Grandad was selfish and kept insisting he didn't want to go into a home and wanted mum and dad to look after him. He lived with them for around 20 years.

Mum had 4 siblings; one brother cleared off and lived away to be no help there, 2nd brother happy enough to help grandad with his paperwork and official stuff but happy to leave the actual caring to mum and dad, and finally 2 sisters who might pop down once a week and change his bedding but otherwise happy to do diddly squat.

And these aunts and uncles of mine happy to be vocal about how me and my brother should be doing stuff. I was equally happy to point out to them that they were the children and should be doing more.

In the end, grandad spent his last 3 years in a home, because mum and dad physically could not care for him any more.

My PIL announced they were going to blow their retirement money because they deserved to and it wouldn't matter as SIL or DP would have to take them in then, or pay for them to go in a home.

They're toxic idiots though, we aren't bloody having them and SIL doesn't want them. Why should she? They'd rather SIL lived in poverty than returned home now her boyfriend has left her high and dry as they've 'done their shift' and tried to make DP and I take her in so they wouldn't have to. We don't have a 4 bed house and can't move her in, but we are the ones paying half her rent until she gets back on her feet, but we can only do that til our baby comes so I hope she's alright by then as she has nobody else. They also told the pair of them they aren't saving any money for them in their will and will blow it all as the children were a 'drain on them' for so long and don't deserve more money. Apparently we owe it to them to take them in and wait on them hand and foot.

My parents would never ask me to care for them, they raised me and are meant to look after me, in their minds, not the other way around. They'd be so embarrassed if ever I had to, though I would so my best for them as they've always been there for me and always had a room for me to come home to if I argued with DP or needed to move back in for money etc. I never needed it, but it was always there. They love me and I love them so I wouldn't let anything bad happen to them, but as I said, they'd sooner live on the breadline than ask.

I'm not saying PIL should hand their money over btw, it's more the attitude that shocks and disgusts me. Especially as they weren't great parents, ever, and barely spent a penny on their kids above a bed and food despite being bloody loaded. FIL would buy himself a £200 suit even though he had no friends and nowhere to wear it and then tell DP and his sister he couldn't afford their school trips/new shoes/winter coats. DP wore the same, thin, jacket all year round for about 3 years until we got into a relationship I bought him a proper coat.

My mum lives within walking distance and im the youngest of three so i know i might end up looking after her. My dad died when i was 21 so i dont mind this, she is 68 just now and helps me with the kids when i am ill (I have a neurological problem), so I do feel if she needs care and im the only one free i shoukd do it. Mum has no money and a council house so if she becomes ill we will have to look after her.

PIL are a different kettle of fish. Dh is an only child, his dad left him to be a child carer to his disabled mum when he was nine. Fil and step Mil live in SE England, they told us when Mil retires they will move up so they are an hours drive away. I believe they want us to care for them and inherit their house in return for this, but they havent asked about this or discussed what will happen in the likely event they fall ill (both smoke and drink heavily).

I do not want to provide care for them. They did not care for dh when he was a child, and if i postpone my return to work to care for them it impacts on my own retirement plans and will affect my own children who may have to provide care for dh or myself if we cannot afford it. I would be happy to tell them this but i think they will just assume I will provide their care unless I tell them otherwise.

Walkacroosthesand My dmum did provide care for my dgran, She stayed several times a month, did her shopping, kept her house nice. It wasn't until another family member became involved and DGran started with dementia that things went sour. Noone could come up with an agreeable solution after 2 family members decided they would not look after DGran in her house. The other two couldn't cope with the demands and she ended in a care home where she rapidly deteriorated. I do feel dmum could of had her live in or lived with gran, she wasn't working, they both lived in big enough houses to turn a downstairs room into a bedroom.
It turned into a very sour almost splitting the family up time which the aunts and uncles haven't got over. I think DMum has projected her guilt onto us by stating she won't go in a home.

I would be happy to provide care for her such as shopping, gardening, drs appointments and making sure she is happy and safe. She just won't be moving in with us