The novel 'filth'. Thoughts?

[Ilovebreakfast]

Anyone read the novel 'filth'? My dh is reading it at the moment. Didn't know what it was about. Just flicked through some of the pages. It is vile and woman hating. Not sure what to think really as dh is such a nice guy.

I've tried to word an answer on your other thread but an struggling to get it clear tbh.

I think my main comment in this is that Filth doesnt glamorise misogyny or rasicm or any of the unsavoury themes. I think that is the difference.

Bruce isnt shown to be some amazing man that treats women like shit and gets away with it. It isnt written to make us like him or to think that its how normal, sane men act.

Anyway I'm not articulate sober enough to get my point across very well tonight.

OP I know where you are coming from. My sweet kind husband of many years watches and reads stuff that I find revolting and it seems to leave him totally unmoved. The scene in Silent Witness of male rape meant that I couldn't watch the series any more.

I'm not particularly squeamish but much of TV shown after 9pm contains more and more disturbing material; much of it watched by children.

Op there is nothing wrong with your dp. Or if there is, because I dont know him, reading Filth is not an indicator.

It is an interesting, thought provoking work of fiction. We all know the real horrors going on in the world. Just because I am pregnant, I wouldn't start feeling weird about my dp watching news reports about a baby dying, or reading books which have sad baby elements, like trainspotting. You having a 15 year old daughter shouldn't mean he had to check all fictional or non fictional reading material for scenes containing 15 year olds before he will read them. I an sure that bit did make his skin crawl, just as it makes anyone's skin crawl who has been 15, vulnerable, taken advantage of or uncomfortable in the presence of dodgy authority figures...eg everyone! That is what you are supposed to feel, anyone who got turned on by this stuff would not bother with Irvine Welsh, there must be far quicker ways to get those sort of sick jollies without having to read about tapeworms and unfortunate skin complaints and nylon trousers.

But Bruce doesn't hate women, he hates everyone. And you're supposed to hate him in return, it's kind of integral to the story unfolding. It's a very mentally disturbed man, put across in an amazingly real way. The story isn't all rainbows and unicorns by any stretch, but then neither is life!!!

As I said, I do ENJOY warped books and films. I enjoy being mentally stimulated and challenged, and I get that from a non mainstream story.

To be honest, there were bits of the book that had me absolutely laughing my head off, much the same as when I read Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas, or watch Blue Velvet or Killer Joe!

The character is a vile misogynistic man but the book is very good of a bit shocking, you end the book feeling sorry for the main character.

Also, it paints a very grim picture, which is something Irvine Welsh does sublimely. It doesn't glamorise Bruce's outlook at all. Quite the opposite in fact.

Oh I didn't end the book feeling sorry for Bruce at all!! As brilliant as the film was, I really found it lacking in that it didn't build the main character in quite the same way, I think some of the brutal nature was subdued for sure so you do end the film feeling quite sorry for him.

JustinBsMum The baby heading towards the stairs isn't the worst bit in Trainspotting.... confused erm, did you stop watching after that point

Jesus, if the worst bit you are referring to involved the baby then I did stop watching. I just remember the feeling of dread watching the baby heading for the stairs but probably looked away then.

I can get through life fine without any more brutal images so make sure I miss them now.

I feel quite ill at the thought of what poor DCs and teens will have seen already with youtube links etc. Will it affect them in years to come I wonder.

JustinBsMum Yep, without saying too much more you should definitely never watch Trainspotting all the way through! Pre-DC it's hard enough; post DC it's near unbearable.

OP, when you say you have read 'lots of books' , did they all come with sparkly pink covers and have titles like 'Shopping and Lipstick'? There are billions of books for stupid people which are basically 'stories' set in the modern world featuring slightly-aspirational contemporary individuals in which fuck all happens, and they sell well because there are a lot of people who basically don't understand what fiction is, at all. Because, mostly, people who like books and read loads of them are fairly relaxed about what other people choose to read. They know that books can take you out of your own life and into a wide range of other people's and that you don't have to like the characters or recognise them.

I've never seen the need for a like this post option till now SGB

SGB

Really I love breakfast? You are totally over thinking this. It is a book by Irvine Welsh what did you expect it to be like? He is not known for writing about trips to selfridges and buying shoes.

My DP reads his books and went to see the movie with his friends it does not make me think less of him or change my opinion if him.

I am teaching my Yr 10s a Gothic novel at the moment, and we are discussing the idea of transgression in literature: the way in which Gothic literature became a means for writers to explore challenging and often taboo ideas. The Monk (written in 1796) features the rape and murder of a nun. Welsh isn't doing anything new.

This is what writers do: they explore humanity in all its glorious, hideous, messy, ugly, beautiful aspects. But if all you're used to reading are the pink sparkly books that SBG mentions, I guess you may have missed that.

"A book is the only place in which you can examine a fragile thought without breaking it, or explore an explosive idea without fear it will go off in your face." (Edward P. Morgan)

Lets not pick on the pink and sparkly books. I read them but know all about writers exploring the darker side of humanity. Sorry for hijacking just wanted to make myself feel better about my book choices

I read it and enjoyed it. And I self-identify as a feminist, and even use that term in public. Don't believe they're mutually exclusive.

The writing of Filth (most of Welch's, actually) is really high standard. That's why it seems so disturbing - he can turn a lot of situations inside-out, or make an absolute evil-asshole of a protaganist into somebody who will fascinate you, even whilst repelling.

DP and I put our sweet, innocent DS to bed, then go and watch The Borgias or something Tarantino-y or read something escapist. Not always violent, and rarely misogynist, but frequently Just Not Sweet and Innocent.

But I don't know your DH - are all of his reading choices like this, or does he have a nice, well-rounded library?

Flipping heck OP. I've just read the thread from start to finish and each post from you is like a stuck record.

Ok we get you: you have a lovely DH, you have a 15 year old DD and the subject of the is vile but, as people keep saying, people read different genres for different reasons.
People don't like the main character but it is him that is the basis of the story.

How do you exactky pronounce Irvine???

Also, where is OP. And why is this posted in relationships`?

OP is there something which makes you uncomfortable about your husband?
Do you have any suspicions?

Just added it to my wishlist.

Now reading a horror about someone who skins people alive.

I love gruesome shocking books.

OP have you actually said to him that you have an issue with him reading this book?

I read Filth because I'd thoroughly enjoyed Trainspotting. Filth was a step too far for me. I read it to the end but hated it because it was gruesome. Well written though, it drew me in which made it even more sickening. I didn't hate it as much as Ben Elton's Gridlock or that fucking Cloud Atlas pile of pish.

PS even though it is sick I'd have no probs with DH reading, and enjoying, the book. It is a free country.

I disagree when you read the book yes he exploits all those things but in the end I becomes a sad twisted version of himself a great read

I enjoyed it, without wishing to emulate the main character's activities. Ditto Trainspotting. Welsh's books are on the edge of my comfort zone but that's a good place to read a book I think.

I had a go at William S Burrows but that's a step too far for me.

Regarding people emulating these sort of books; I'd have more of an issue with the Mills and Boon/Barbara Cartland school of soppy romances, convincing impressionable women than there really is a white knight to carry them off. And if you argue that readers don't believe that, then stop complaining about supposedly shocking books like Filth.

I like that quote LeBear :)

For me I like books that are emotionally hard to read, for example I read Monster Love by Carol Topolski. Now it should go without saying that I despise and am horrified by child abuse, so by the OP's logic I shouldn't have been able to read that book. But I did. I didn't cry my way through it, nor have nightmares, or in any way suffer for reading it. But I also didn't become sympathetic to child abusers or normalise child abuse. I did enjoy the book though, found it well written and compelling.