Can I get a female perspective?

[Octopus7]

Hi,

I'm 34 and my wife is 36, we've been married for 7 years and have 2 amazing sons. We're a really tight family but over the years the relationship between my wife and myself has become almost entirely about the kids. My wife has little to no interest in sex and hasn't since she became pregnant with our second son 3 years ago (we've probably had sex 5 times in the last 3 years). She's quite a shy person and doesn't like to talk about such things and she always has a reason why she rejects me (generally it's tiredness). As its been going on so long I've tried a lot of different things from asking her to talk about it to backing right off.

The obvious assumption is that she isn't attracted to me anymore, well to me it is anyway so a couple of years back I joined the gym, started hitting that pretty hard in my lunch breaks and taking a lot more pride in my appearance. I'm not the best looking guy in the world but I'm in decent shape, I like to think I'm a good father and a lot of people comment on how close we are as a family. Outwardly I'm a very confident person but this is really ripping me apart. I could never leave because I love my wife and sons far too much - how do I get this back on track? I'm not out for sympathy, I just need some help!

Thanks everyone

[jasminerose]

I think ehhns story might be right. If someone can go without sex for 3 years its probably because thry are a person who isnt really into sex with you and I doubt it will ever change to a regular sex life.

[Offred]

OP please listen about the communication issue. It is no small problem. It sounds as if the communication is a lot worse than just "not perfect".

It is easy to ignore I think in the face of a wife who won't talk when you've tried and a thread full of apparently easy fixes.

However, my experience may well be relevant to you.

My husband has always been shy, nervous of discussing sex, afraid of touching me, had a lower sex drive, didn't like being out of his comfort zone.

We didn't have sex for a year after the twins were born because I was exhausted and because for me the sex was shit so why would I bother?

I eventually made myself restart the sexual relationship because I knew without it the relationship would die but the sex was still shit and still infrequent.

I also felt very worn down and insignificant being a SAHM.

We are now separating, not because of any of these problems we encountered but because whenever I was miserable and whenever I tried talking to him he never listened or heard me.

He responded by trying to find the thing to do to fix broken wife; more childcare, more housework etc but he didn't listen to me or talk to me meaning he did the jobs wrong and made more work for me, wanted credit and never listened to me about how to do them.

In bed he would make a half hearted attempt to touch me sometimes but would really just focus on his orgasm.

Also he would never share with me his feelings or his life. Stupid daily crap that made me feel included. He would never consider me in decisions he made. When I talked about how I felt he would read into what I was saying a thing to do to fix it without talking to me and this would result in him doing some mad things "because you told me to".

Eventually I left (on Monday this week) because I have discussed and discussed and discussed how I feel, tried to get him to discuss how he feels etc and it was making me suicidal.

Him taking it upon himself to do housework, bringing me cups of tea, telling me I was lovely, none of that helped because we didn't communicate. Lots of the time it was worse because I felt he was treating me as a pet and not as an equal partner.

There is absolutely no going back for me, the thought of trying again makes me ill.

I know it is slightly different because your wife seems to be the one not talking but the effect of trying to guess what to do to fix it may be the same.

[Offred]

It is the being treated like a pet that finally did it I think.

[78bunion]

I suspect some of the problems on the thread are caused by unequal marriage and men working and women staying home. If she went to work, had to dress in smart work suits every day, high heels, had attention from other men at work, shared all housework 50./50 as both earning full time everything might become better.

[Octopus7]

It seems I have a comment to defend, when I mentioned the life that I give her - maybe it sounded arrogant (although I don't see it that way). All I meant is that I'm fortunate enough to get paid enough money that my wife doesn't have to work. This is something that we both wanted rather than the kids going into child care and it was very much a stroke of luck that it worked out this way. I was only referring to this and that my wife likes not having to work (and I like that she doesn't have to too but would have no problem if she wanted to start working again).

As for the gym, I only ever go in my lunch hours - I don't think it would be fair for me to be out all day at work and then sloping off to the gym as soon as I got home!

[78bunion]

I suspect you would be both happier had you married a feminist and obtained an undertaking from her before marriage she would never give up work. you would both get more sex too. A lot of sex and attraction is about money and power.

[microserf]

We had similar issues and went for counselling with a specialist in this area. It really helped. I was able to tell my husband why I'd gotten out of the habit and we worked on some communication strategies. It ended up (surprise) being all about a wider inability to communicate that was causing us problems.

Going to counselling isn't just for marriages that are on the rocks - we decided to get in early before ours hit the rocks.

[fortyplus]

Octopus7 I was full time sahm for 12 year, and looking back it's not healthy. Encourage dw to take a part time job, even if it's voluntary work in a charity shop. It'll provide a huge boost to her self esteem. I had become a 'mummy' and nothing else. Women need to feel valued by the outside world. Or what I should say is that everyone does, but there are more sahm mums than dads.

[springybuffy]

But you said it OP - I give her a good life. By that you mean that because you work, she can have a good life. But her work gives you a good life, too - you could be living alone with no-one to come home to, no children, no warmth. Or you could be struggling to find appropriate and adequate childcare; or not see your kids much. You very specifically don't want this; what she does is very valuable to you and the quality of your life. You both work to give one another a good life. (btw my personal experience is that I have done both your roles - the high-powered job in the workplace, the SAHM - and there is no question that, for me, the latter was by far the hardest.) If you say you give her a good life, you sound like her patron. Is she your patron because of what she does for you?

[Shapechanger]

Offred at 07:44:31 - you have described my life before separating (except the twins bit phew)

OP you say your wife likes the lifestyle and the money but she doesn't want to be intimate with you in bed or out.

You have to question whether your arrangement is working. springbuffy hit the nail on the head when she said you sound like her patron. Are you content to bankroll her lifestyle when she is so disengaged from you?

If the gender roles were reversed in this thread she'd be mocked as a cocklodger.

[springybuffy]

erm... she's not doing nothing though, is she. She's running the home and the kids - a very hard job. A cocklodger does nothing.

[Shapechanger]

Fair enough spring but there seems to be a pretty dim view taken of sahds. And their partners aren't encouraged to boost their self esteem and 'treat' them all the time, they are considered fucking lucky and maybe a bit emasculated being bankrolled by a woman who goes out to work full time.

[Darkesteyes]

In the wider world though single dads are hero worshipped and single mums are vilified You only need to look at the Daily Mail and Gov policy to see it.
Mysogynistic comments like "she shouldnt have opened her legs if she cant afford to support those kids" are tossed around frequently.
But with single dads "oh isnt he wonderful doing all that on his own"

[fabergeegg]

I like the sound of you, OP - I think you sound like a genuinely nice guy. When you made the 'life that I give her' comment, it didn't grate because I was assuming you were making it from a place of deep insecurity, thinking, 'Is she only keeping me on because I'm helpful to her lifestyle?' Only you can know if this was the way you meant it. Then I started thinking about how I'd feel if my husband said I to me. I'd be furious! I would be thinking about the family life I give him by giving up the satisfaction that would come from work (not that I'm not pleased not to have to, either). When you're pulling together against the tide, you both do whatever jobs you have to do - for the other. Her for you as much as you for her. Don't forget it because I think you're probably a cut above that kind of chauvinistic comment.

[Darkesteyes]

Thats a great post faberge

[ifonawintersday]

I love my husband very much. He if handsome, and I find him attractive. But, I am not keen on physical closeness at all. This is why, and you need to think hard if you do any of these things. Because my husband would say he was doing housework, and chores, but I see things very differently.

This is a standard evening at our house:

• He will just go off to bed when he is tired. I am left with ensuring all the doors are closed, windows shut, and lights off, etc.

• If the washing machine is still going, I will stay up and wait for it, and hang the clothes up.

• I will walk around the house to look for dirty mugs, cups, left behind. Then clean up the kitchen, stack the dishwasher and turn it on.

• Every night he leaves his dirty socks and underpants on the top of the landing. Every morning he goes downstairs, leaving his dirty clothing on top of the landing.

• He uses the dinging room as his personal clothes storage, and chairs will be laden with trousers, gym shorts, t shirts, etc. (I dont have my own dressing room, how do I manage to keep all my clothes in our bedroom, in the wardrobe, hung up and tidy?)

• All his correspondence is left where ever it falls, and I end up putting it all away.

BUT, he cooks breakfast every morning, he takes the rubbish out, he clears the table after dinner and stack the dishwasher. He leaves the surfaces for me to wipe though. He takes the kids out swimming or to the park on his own. He reads bed time story every night. So he would say he does a lot in the house. But compared to what I do, it is very little. We both work though, I work part time.

And when I come to bed, he has been laying there reading, and is in a huff as he has been kept up saying "why are you up so late, I need to get some sleep" He wont go to sleep before me as he does not like to be woken up when I come to bed. So when I come to bed, I lie down, I turn my back to him and go to sleep.

I have given up asking him to pick up after himself, and I just dont see HOW he can just walk past an untidy kitchen and go to bed when clearly he can see that there is still lots left to do before going to bed.

If you recognize any of this, think twice, because while you may be doing chores, it could be things that you dont do that is wearing your wife out.

[Darkesteyes]

wintersday leaving his dirty socks/pants for you to pick up is disrespectful.
And you have already asked him and he continues to do it. So he KNOWS hes being disrespectful.
Hes doing the bare minimum he can get away with but because he really thinks that its all womens work and that he shouldnt be doing it really, he passively aggresively leaves his dirty underwear for you to pick up. How old is he Because my DH is 63 and he doesnt do that (im 40 btw) We seem to be going backwards.

[ifonawintersday]

We are both 40. I really dislike how he just swans off to bed when HE is tired, leaving to me to "finalise" all chores. Am I not tired? Why is it always ME that has to be responsible and pick up his slack?

[Darkesteyes]

Winter its not as if he doesnt know how you feel because you have already told him. thats why i think its passive aggressive Have you tried just leaving his shite on the landing What would he do if you did?

[springybuffy]

I had a lodger like this. He thought he was being so wonderful to do a miniscule amount of tasks - he clearly expected a medal. When one fine summer day I asked him to mow the lawn [petrol mower, takes about 20 minutes] he took off and I never saw him again. (there was a thread about it: half the posters thought IWBU to ask him to mow the lawn. But he used the garden more than me. He also never once wiped the surfaces. The magic fairy did all that.)

[Darkesteyes]

So he fucks off to bed when he is tired and then moans at you for coming to bed late when the reason that you are is cos you are finishing off the chores that he sees as womens work.? Jesus what a selfish twonk And moaning about what time you go to bed also strikes meas a bit controlling.

[ifonawintersday]

Yes, but the point is, because he does do chores, and is generally helpful, he would say he helps a lot around the house. He does. BUT, the fact is still, by the time he is tired and wants to go to bed, there are still things that needs doing, and this is left to me. Yet his perception is that he does plenty. He does not realize how important that final run is. If he was sharing the load, we would both get to bed earlier.

[Darkesteyes]

Winter thats the problem I hate this phrase "helping out" or helpful. Its not being helpful its picking up his OWN mess and contributing to the running of his own home.
When he takes the kids out on his own have you heard him make reference to this? If so does he refer to it as parenting or babysitting.

[Lazyjaney]

The OP is being led a merry dance, becoming a domestic god is very unlikely to be effective in this case IMO.

Read the reverse threads on here OP, and you will see (many of these same) women recommending far more assertive steps for other women to take. Communication is of course recommended, but more of the shape up or ship out mode.

I think most of the advice on those threads is more genuine, and is probably the better advice to take.

[ifonawintersday]

I know Darkesteyes. I know.

He does not refer to spending time with his kids as baby sitting. He enjoys spending time with them and takes his parenting seriously. If I want a lie in, he will get up with them early. If I want to go out and see friends, he is happy to be home with them. He rarely goes out himself. He goes to the gym a few times per week, this does not impact on anything. He always ask if there is a session I would like to go to before he goes, as he says he is happy to let me have "first digs".

He takes the kids to school every day before work. Sometimes, he also picks them up. I cook dinner 90% of the time and we eat together. He is also happy to cook tea for one child if I am out with the other. I just say, "look I will be at x with dc2, so dc1 will need a meal" I find that we parent very efficiently together.

My only issue is what happens in the evening after the kids have gone to sleep. Because they fall asleep quite late, I like to sit and relax for a little before doing all the last dashes, maybe with a book, a glass of wine, some tv, spend time online just to take easy and enjoy my evening a bit. And then BOOM, "I am going to bed", without sharing that last bit.

I know it is a small thing as everything works fine and is running smooth up to that point. But that is enough to make me not want physical closeness.

Writing this, I realize I may be unreasonable because he is such an equal partner while the kids are still awake. When they go to bed, he goes to his study to answer emails.