Can I get a female perspective?

[Octopus7]

Hi,

I'm 34 and my wife is 36, we've been married for 7 years and have 2 amazing sons. We're a really tight family but over the years the relationship between my wife and myself has become almost entirely about the kids. My wife has little to no interest in sex and hasn't since she became pregnant with our second son 3 years ago (we've probably had sex 5 times in the last 3 years). She's quite a shy person and doesn't like to talk about such things and she always has a reason why she rejects me (generally it's tiredness). As its been going on so long I've tried a lot of different things from asking her to talk about it to backing right off.

The obvious assumption is that she isn't attracted to me anymore, well to me it is anyway so a couple of years back I joined the gym, started hitting that pretty hard in my lunch breaks and taking a lot more pride in my appearance. I'm not the best looking guy in the world but I'm in decent shape, I like to think I'm a good father and a lot of people comment on how close we are as a family. Outwardly I'm a very confident person but this is really ripping me apart. I could never leave because I love my wife and sons far too much - how do I get this back on track? I'm not out for sympathy, I just need some help!

Thanks everyone

[MudCity]

MikeOxard..you have hit the nail on the head.

[HeyJudith]

Francesca cleaning the loo?

My DH cleans the loo, but he uses it too. If he cleaned the loo because he's doing me a favour or in any way shape or form it was related to getting more sex I would be

[MudCity]

FrancescaBell. Spot on about the loos. Nothing pleases me more than going out for the day, coming home and finding the kitchen and bathroom smelling of Cillit Bang.

Much better than watching DVDs together or anything!

[Bowlersarm]

I don't think if they've only had sex once very 7 months approx Mike he can be applying too much 'pressure'?

[FrancescaBell]

Jolly good. Mine uses and cleans the loos too. We have sex. Often.

I link it to being married to a man who doesn't require me to be his mother and who gets my sense of humour and knows when I'm taking the piss

[Offred]

Seriously, I don't think fussing around being pathetic and trying to guess what she might want will help do anything other than destroy your marriage. I REALLY, REALLY, think you need to demand that she does something about the lack of communication.

3 years is a really long time to go without sex and I'm guessing the communication problem has been going on longer.

[Shapechanger]

Actually, I think the spa idea is a good one, Judith. Not because it's a gift but because it gives her some time out. Don't make assumptions about my response to advice that is better than yours. 'Treat her to a lipstick', 'stroke her hair' sounds like something out of a 1950s guide to married living.

Very bitchy of you to say 'if I have' a husband and you're guessing he gives me nothing. I don't have a husband any more as it happens. If you read upthread you will see that I left him.

He surprised me with a Rolex once so at least I got something good out of the marriage :) . He often bought me flowers and a cup of tea in bed every morning. But it didn't work because we could never talk about anything important without having an argument.

Now I buy my own flowers. It's not ideal and it's a bit lonely but it is better than keeping myself and my kids in a marriage where we reached an impasse every time we tried to talk.

[Balloonist]

I don't think it's that unusual for women to go off sex after having children, especially if they had a low sex drive to begin with and have been in the relationship for a long time. You do need to talk to your wife though. It's possible she just can't forsee having sex ever again in which case she'll need to be honest with you so you know where you stand.

It may signal the end of the relationship of course and then you'll have to work with her on a way you can hopefully continue to meet your sons needs whilst meeting your own too. I do know of a couple of couples who have decided to co-parent because they no longer wish to have an intimate relationship but they do want to do the best by their children.

But obviously you need to find out exactly what is going on and whether you can do anything to save the situation as it stands. You sound a lovely caring partner by the way and you should not take this personally (difficult I know). I suspect life, caring for young children etc has just knocked these impulses out of her, whether temporarily or for good that's what you need to explore.

I wish you well

[MudCity]

Perhaps just acknowledge how much she does, every day, for you and the children by telling her that...and telling her that you appreciate the things she does. Then give her a day off to do what she wants because she deserves it.

Feeling valued for what you are doing already goes a long way in my book.

[Dobbiesmum]

You said something that struck a chord with me in one of your posts about routine. That's key to me. I'm a SAHM of 3 and routine in many ways is good for me, it keeps me, DH, the DC's and the house up to scratch and where we should be. Nothing wrong with routine at all. I'm also something of an introvert btw and find talking about intimate issues a struggle.
But
Breaking the routine can be good. Being spontaneous can be good, not necessarily in a sexual way, just doing things you/she wouldn't normally do. It's a way to reconnect with each other and remembering what you actually liked about each other in the first place.

[HeyJudith]

Shapechanger nothing 1950s about having or liking your hair stroked?

Lipstick does sounds 1950s I agree, but not knowing the OP's financial situation, I used that as an example of something small that can very inexpensive, plus a lot of women use them so it wouldn't be too far out of the ordinary or the pocket. Spa days are great but they can cost £££ and I am always very wary of suggesting things that are maybe outside of people's finances, because that is demoralising to think that maybe hope lies in a spa day but you can't really afford it. I'm not as, um, stupid as you think. I am probably selling myself a bit short in order to think of things that might be generically pleasing that aren't reliant on bigger finances, but that's ok. Anyway, I would personally prefer day to day gestures and being made to feel special to the main person who I would like to see me as special, than one big gesture like a spa day (but that's just me - I have nothing against spa days, it's just given the choice that's what I would choose).

I didn't read that you had had a husband and that you're not with him any more. I'm not bitchy like that. That would be far too obvious

What I was instinctively getting from the OP was that his wife might not feel very good about herself at the moment and I have seen time and again that small gestures that cost nothing can have a massive impact on self esteem and confidence. The communication is the real key but if OP's wife has shut down then often small but regular compliments and feel good boosts can at least maybe, possibly, get her to feel more like talking. I don't know.

[NandH]

Agree with what everyone else is saying but one thing I can't see suggested is this,

My dp is always too tired and often falls asleep on the sofa by 8pm, he works long hours so fair enough, until he was always too tired for sex, I left it months before I got stupidly pissed off with him and had a rant, his suggestion was to have sex in the mornings, and that's now what we do :)

Maybe try this? Your wife can't be tired in the morning after a night sleep surely?... if this doesn't work then its crystal clear that the tiredness is just an excuse :)


Hope you can get this sorted soon op!

[Shapechanger]

Ok Judith. Don't want to derail further. It was the bit about 'extra spending money to treat herself', really does sound like it's on top of 'the housekeeping'.

I think 'small gestures' are lovely in a fundamentally healthy relationship (in a bad one they make things feel even worse and I should know). But first of all you absolutely have to be able to talk about the big things. Sex is a big thing. She fobs him off with excuses. He can't second guess why she isn't interested, she needs to tell him, doesn't she?

Yes, she may feel like shit after having small children (been there with the traumatic birth injuries) but she won't TALK. I still think she seems to be the one with the problem. Yes we are hearing it from his perspective but he does sound like a pretty decent partner. He certainly gives a shit, just the fact that he's even on here suggests that.

The main problem is communication... without that gifts, tokens of 'appreciation' are like rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Not that any woman who stays at home with kids wouldn't appreciate time away from them, to herself.

The OP is at a stalemate because, fundamentally, he can only guess what his wife thinks and feels. Look at the title of the thread... he doesn't know what she's thinking because she doesn't communicate. In his desperation he wants to get some insight from other women.

But only she can provide the answers, every marriage is different.

Sex five times in three years (even my stbxdh and I managed it more often that that) and her treating it like a non-issue by not discussing it is seriously wrong.

But to try to be more constructive, OP, if she won't talk, have you considered writing her a letter explaining how you feel? I get the impression she doesn't really know and might be a bit shocked if you told her (another thing that suggests that finding some other way - any way - to communicate might be helpful).

Sadly my husband and I have managed to spill out our feelings and be frank with each other about where our marriage went wrong via email, since we split. We've both accepted some responsibility for it and can see with more clarity now where it went wrong. It's an awful shame we never managed to do that face to face but it always became too confrontational, or I got stonewalled. Too late now :(

You can't just bury your head in the sand about this OP and 'hope it will get better'. Intimacy is a difficult thing to restore once it is gone.

[Offred]

I don't think it is acceptable to 'shut down' for three years. Nor do I think it is ok to expect the person who has been shut down on to make all the effort to fix things tbh.

I'm not saying the op should be insensitive but as I've said before, the problem is not sex here I don't think, I actually think the problem is much much bigger and more important than that and that if you don't do something about it properly the relationship will be over, if it isn't already.

[NandH]

Really think you should listen to shapechanger too :)

[Offred]

Great post shape.

[fabergeegg]

it's not that I think your position is unreasonable, but you may not improve it by putting any pressure on. You're obviously aware of this. In your shoes, I would really try to offer emotional intimacy with no strings attached and affection that doesn't lead to anything sexual. I would also work my ass off in the house and leave nothing undone. Make sure she has time with her friends when you have the kids. if nothing else, her friends are bound to praise you and tell her how lucky she is :)

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

A question for the OP.... sex is clearly few and far between but are you affectionate with each other? Do you hold hands in the street? Cuddle on the sofa? Physically demonstrative in other ways? Even if sex is too much like hard work, it is possible to keep going and for everyone to feel loved and attractive with affectionate behaviour. So if the answer to the above is 'yes' and you are physically affectionate with each other, that might get you through this and I'd see it as a good sign.

If the answer to the above is 'no' however, IME that can be one of two things and neither of them are favourable. a) She's simply not attracted to you any more or b) (very common) she won't engage physically on any level because she thinks it'll automatically lead to the sex she doesn't want.

Again, it comes down to communication.

[MikeOxard]

Bowlersarm, that comment made me throw up in my mouth. Pressure will lead to less sex, not more. Except if you count rape.

Shape, I think you mean reasons, not excuses. We have moved on from sex being a marital duty haven't we?

[Offred]

I thought 'excuses' was appropriate. Come on no-one is totally exhausted for 3 years straight. She's making excuses because she doesn't want to talk about why she doesn't want sex.

[HeyJudith]

Yes agreed. I don't think it's acceptable to shut down for three years, at all, or for OP to be stonewalled or do all the running. I just wondered if starting small and light might encourage the channels of communication to reopen, as you can't force someone to talk but, sometimes, people respond to being coaxed out of a stalemate position.

Extra spending money was because he says that they are on one wage and he works, she doesn't? (I have really not read the thread thoroughly I admit) so there was no better way of putting it than extra spending money, because if the money in the house comes from him, then how can he differentiate to her between the money she has/is given for essentials and day to day, and money that's just for her and not to feel guilty about spending it just on her.

If she's rubbish at treating herself or has got in the habit of not being able to justify spending anything on herself, or only buys new for the kids, then some people have to be literally forced to buy themselves something new. Not that it is demeaning by being given cash just for you but like I said some people literally have to be forced because they feel guilty. I know because I have been there - feeling like shit, looking like shit and feeling that I didn't deserve anything new because it was hardly worth it, I looked so shit (put on 4.5st for DC1 :)...

I don't know if this applies to OP's DW because we don't know him or her, or what her take on this is, we only know one side of the story and we are guessing at her issues as such even more than he is!!!
but we are all putting our angles on it so that OP can sift through the info and pick and choose bits that he thinks might be useful and/or he could try.

[HeyJudith]

X lots of posts :)

[ParvatiTheWitch]

Ok, on a purely practical note, is it worth her while? When you do have sex together, does she manage to have an orgasm, same as you? If the answer is "no", OP, ask yourself how keen you'd be if you didn't come.
Sorry to be so blunt, but in past months (after nearly two decades together) DH has turned me down on a couple of occasions, but I have always been up for it.
On a more practical note, both of our children are at school now, it does get easier and I am definitely looking better, spending more time on myself and getting my mojo back. All is not lost, it does come back to you; especially if you get on well and had a decent sex life before kids. Good luck to you.

[Bowlersarm]

Mike why did my comment make you throw up in your mouth?

[ageofgrandillusion]

My guess - she is actually a lesbian, still in the closet. If you get on well and dont want to split the family up, what about ... brothels now and again for you? I really don't see the harm. It would be a white lie, so to speak.