DH never apologises, its ALWAYS someone else's fault, now becoming unbearable but don't know how to move on.please help

[ilovelilos]

DH and I are in a terrible place. Been together 10 years, had a long period of secondary infertility in which he was extremely unsupportive, even though the problem was his, now we have moved on from that.
But now he is never able to see when he is at fault. And never apologises. It is always someone else's fault to the point of very cleverly imagining scenarios to twist it round so he is innocent.

I am by no means perfect but am definitely able to say sorry and move on.
He on the other hand calls me controlling if I ask for an apology, or says people are too sensitive if they have been upset by him. It's always me that need counselling, he says he is fine.

If it was the occasional episode I would ignore and move on without getting an apology, its just not worth the grief from him, but now its constant. I don't know how to carry on, every day brings new problems.

In front of our DD he has just told me to leave, get away from him, he doesn't want me around. That upsets me so much. I've told him in the past to stop talking like this in front of DD but his temper flares and you cant stop him.
Ive tried talking calmly and reasonably to him, suggesting marriage counselling but its always turned round to the fact that I need help, I've had a difficult childhood ( not true at all, we are a very close family). Its actually him with family issues.

Totally frustrated and unhappy, any ideas.

Thank you for reading x

[CookieDoughKid]

Hi OP. You need to realise... If you haven't sussed it out, that you have almost zero chance to fix your dh / relationship. It has got to come from him and you have both want to fix it.

You can write here everyday and mumsnet will always be here but it won't change your marriage. It'll only give you better coping strategies and not a solution ( until you break).

Things with my dh went from bad to worse last year and he refused to seek help with his depression and anger. I finally got the courage to leave him. Cue drama. Dh himself sought help and initiated counselling after he realized what he had lost (his family). Men can be very blinkered, my dh freely admits to it. For 1 year I absolutely enjoyed the freedom and now we are back together, its like when we first met. Really in love and respectful to each other.

Sometimes words are not enough and the only way to change things, is to take action. You need to be brave.

[OxfordBags]

I would not be making dinner for a man who refuses to talk to me, especially about something so important.

Here you go again... Until the next time that his fixation with never being wrong leads to your DD's death? Sorry to be shocking, but if he risked her seriously this time and won't address it or learn from it, then you need to be terrified.

[ilovelilos]

Thank you all again.
I hear what you are saying and I agree.
Still no apology for the health issue and no recognition that he has done wrong.
A friend popped around yesterday with flowers for me after hearing what had happened.
when DH found out he said with scorn that she had only done that because she saw how upset I was. Um, yes..
But he has agreed to go to the doctors to get this health issue for my daughter checked out. But still no remourse. That drives me insane.
So I said this morning, " would you do it again". He said no but only because of the strife its created within the marriage. Nothing to do with poor DD.
NO responsibility what so ever for his actions. No possible admission that he has made a huge mistake. Aaagggggh!!!

[nickelbabe]

and that won't change.

[Fairenuff]

Why do you keep expecting a different response from him?

Just from what you've posted, even I know that's not going to happen and I don't know your dh from Adam.

You know, they do say that doing the same thing and expecting different results is a sign of 'madness'. Do you feel that this is 'driving you mad' for want of a better experession?

Listen to your gut. The minute you tell him it's over he will change, he will say that he'll get help, blah, blah, blah.

But as long as you accept it you are actually enabling this behaviour.

You say you don't like it but I'm not so sure. If you really didn't like it you'd do something about it.

P'raps you just wanted a bit of a whinge and some sympathy?

[yellowballoons]

Do you think that underneath he knows he has done wrong behaviour. I think he does.

Has he ever said sorry. Did he used to?

Fairenuff is right in that something has to change for the situation to change.
Have you ordered the book for example?
Unless something changes, he isnt going to change is he?

[LumpySpacePrincessOhMyGlob]

If you are unhappy with the situation then you are going to have to make some changes.

Hoping and wishing he will change, become the man you married, is not going to cut it.

I speak from bitter experience.

[foolonthehill]

at this point I would encourage you to take a step back and think.

Maya Angelou said "The first time someone shows you who they are, believe them.?

Most of us who have been in relationships like yours have failed to do this but the light does dawn eventually. The question then is not what will he do to change it (because YOU cannot decide that he has to change, only he can do that) but what will you do (because ultimately you cannot change the man but you can change your response, your tolerance and ultimately your life)

she also said ?Stepping onto a brand-new path is difficult, but not more difficult than remaining in a situation, which is not nurturing to the whole woman.? and I would add child.

[Snazzyenjoyingsummer]

He is not going to apologise, and he is not going to take responsibility. I doubt he ever would have, but now he knows you are so keen to hear it, he is digging his heels in ever more firmly. As he is never wrong, he is determined to give in.

There are three outcomes here, ultimately.

1. He admits he was wrong and you talk about it properly (this will be the day after hell freezes over, I'd say)
   
   
2. He won't admit he's wrong, you decide that you just can't put up with this any longer and tell him so. What follows could be anything from counselling to the end of the marriage. But it is the end of you always being wrong and him never apologising, if only because you won't be together re-enacting the same dynamic over and over.
   
   
3. He won't admit he's wrong, and you don't want to rock the boat too much, so you eventually just stop referring to it, suppress your unhappy feelings, and things settle down as normal where he is never wrong and you are always the one apologising. With this one, expect a repeat of the whole cycle over and over again, probably until your DD is grown up, if you let it.
   
   Which situation do you see yourself in, 10 years from now?

[LittleMissMarker]

He said ... I should realise that he wouldnt hurt DD deliberately.

Truthfully, do you realise that? I trust my DH with my DS as much as I trust myself ? he might make the odd minor cock-up but then so might I, and if he accidentally did something really dangerous then he would feel just as horrified and as self-blaming as I would. But it doesn?t sound like your husband feels that way.

So do you think he?s not really that trustworthy? Perhaps you are so focussed on getting an apology because then you could tell yourself he wont do that again, or anything else equally bad, in future. But somewhere you suspect that maybe he will? He might not do it deliberately but he could do it carelessly, especially if he?s an extremely self-centered person who never apologises and who often does what he wants without thought of the consequences for the people in his care.

[ilovelilos]

Thank you for the continued support.
Health issue problem continues. We are going to the doctors tomorrow, together. He has admitted he did wrong, said an unconvincing apology, but denies he knew it was wrong at the time. I believe he did know at the time but he is very arrogant and didn't think and now wont admit it. And he is trying to compare it to other incidents with other families, to take the limelight from him.

I really don't know what the future holds but I need to try and convince him to try everything to sort this out before we split. I do realise this may be impossible but feel we have a lot to loose.

I have had no remorse from him what so ever, in fact quite the contrary, he is angry and off with me. Ive told him he needs to show remorse and he actually asked me 'for how long?'
It is SO obvious he has a lot of baggage from his childhood, and has never admitted any wrongs never mind apologies. I understand that but this is make or break and he needs to act fast, but he doesnt seem willing. Always protecting his corner, like when he was a child.

And if its not properly resolved, this is something that cant be swept under the carpet. Otherwise it will keep rearing its ugly head.

[Fairenuff]

It will keep rearing it's head because he is in denial.

Before he can confront this, he has to admit it exists. You could spend the rest of your life trying to get this through to him.

But, hey, it's your life.

[OxfordBags]

OP, have you considered the fact that he doesn't actually feel remorse? And therefore doesn't know how to show it or see why it is necessary? He could be a sociopath or psychopath (he sounds like one of those). Now,before you laugh this off, please be aware that the majority of people with those conditions are not the serial killers and monsters depicted in the films and on tv, etc., but are actually completely normal people, with families and jobs and so on.

He could have baggage and still be a sociopath. Or his childhood could have led to him developing those tendencies. The point is, you are presuming that he does secretly feel remorse, and knows when he has done wrong and should apologise, but is just too messed up by his childhood to be able to. But he really does sound like he neither knows nor cares if and when he should feel remorse. The fact he appears to feel picked-on about being required to feel remorse fits with the sociopath profile, as things like remorse or empathy are traits that feel to them that others are making up or exaggerating to harass them.

Even if the above is pure bullshit, WHY would you want to stay with a man who doesn't believe he should show remorse, much less appear to feel it, for risking his own child's life?! It is so, so freaky and immoral, and how can you ever trust him again?!

[ilovelilos]

Intresting, thank you Oxford.
Will definetly consider this.
Im clutching at straws to make him see sense, is there any mileage in showing him this thread?

[Katisha]

I think oxfordbags has it to be honest.

[foolonthehill]

no...keep it for you.

there are plenty of place he can look for help...there are not so many places where people have your back.

www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html profile of a sociopath

[Snazzyenjoyingsummer]

No, don't show him the thread. He doesn't sound to me like someone who would accept being told by a bunch of internet strangers than he is wrong. Especially when he won't listen to his wife.

[OxfordBags]

OP, if your DD's life being at risk doesn't make him see sense, I can't see how ANYTHING is going to, much less a load of female strangers criticising him online. You simply aren't going to get him to see sense.

And it's not about trying to make him see sense, anyway. That's you tsking responsibility for his behaviour and emotions. The only way he will see sense is for himself. He doesn't WANT to show remorse, he doesn't SEE why he should show it - and the reason will, chillingly, be because he simply doesn't FEEL it.

As I said upthread, what is actually very sinister is that he must be aware of social conventions that expect people to show remorse even if they secretly don't feel it, and he won't even follow these. That shows that he truly feels that he is beyond reproach, that normal rules of behaviour don't apply to him. It's sinister, is what it is.

If he wanted to show remorse, if he could give a shit, he would show it. This goes beyond a problem childhood. This is no doubt a pathology, a mental illness, and probably untreatable.

He has shown that he will risk your DD's life, and still not care. Staying with him means risking her life. How can you live with knowing that and staying with him?!

Don't show him this. He will, ironically, use it to make you feel guilt and apologise to him (for sharing your problems).

[Jux]

Oh no, for heaven's sake don't show him this. Don't even mention MN in relation to him. He'll mutter about nests of vipers and bitter women, dismiss everything, and then any time you try to exert a bit of control or insist on being heard he'll accuse you of getting ideas from your manhating friends on MN.

I am worried by his response to his error re your dd's health. He's gone from "so what, it's all right", to "it's causing me bother at home" to "ok, I done wrong". What bothers me is that the last has happened just before an appointment with a gp to talk about your dd's health problem, and I wonder how much that has to do with his admission. (Am I being unnecessarily distrustful to feel that he knew even at the time that what he was doing was the wrong thing?)

[Fairenuff]

I am worried about your response to him risking your dd's health actually OP. I think you are focussing on the wrong person here.

It is your dd that you should be showing concern for.

[LittleMissMarker]

I think you are asking us to help you find a way for you to fix up your marriage, to make your marriage safe for your daughter and comfortable for you? But I don?t see how we can. Some things just can?t humanly be done, and from what you?ve said, there is nothing you can do to make your marriage work properly. There?s no fix for the way your husband behaves. You can?t make him want to change himself, you have already tried for 10 years and he has not responded. I?m really sorry, it?s an awful thing to have to face. But for your daughter?s sake you need to accept that ?trying everything? to make your marriage work is no longer compatible with doing everything to keep your daughter safe. And keeping your daughter safe should be the top priority of all.

[wildspinning]

Your daughter is at risk if you stay with this man.

Ergo, you must leave.

He will never, ever change.

Best of luck and hugs to you OP.

[Jux]

How were things at the doc, ilovelilos?

[PoppyField]

Hi OP,

I agree with very sage words from Jux, LittleMissMarker and I totally chime with CookieDoughKid - although, happily, she seems to have found a way of changing things for the better. My H did not change at all and continued to be angry, blaming and controlling until I kicked him out.

I understand where you are as you are left scratching your head, thinking 'I cannot believe he is behaving like this with no conscience?'. It is that feeling of 'How can someone who loves me behave like this? How can he be so cruel and not see it?'. And you boil it down to 'I need an apology' as that's the only way you can see that things can start to get better in a humane way.

I was fixated on an apology for many months. I thought that had to be the starting point for mending our relationship - as I thought I cannot be sure he respects me unless he takes that step. What an apology would signify would be: 1. Recognition that he has behaved appallingly 2. Recognition that this denoted a lack of respect for you and severely damaged your relationship 3. A sense that he is sorry, that he values the relationship and values YOU and that he will be trying in future to make good and treat you properly.

Unfortunately, this probably won't happen. What you may come to realise is that he does not feel remorse. He does not recognise that he is treating you badly - as Oxford Bags has pointed out. He allows himself to treat you this way because he sees you as less than him, as someone he does not respect. He cannot be made to see that his behaviour is shocking and unacceptable. He does not respect you - so you, particularly, will not be able to persuade him of this.

Like other posters - I do not know your DH from Adam - but his pattern follows very closely that of other Emotional Abusers we have seen here. He is spinning you round and round. He doesn't care. You have to look at why an apology is not forthcoming - you will come to the awful conclusion that he does not care about you. It is shattering - but the realisation will enable you to see the landscape of your relationship differently, and you will be able to move forward out of the fog.

It is very hard to accept you are in an abusive relationship. Hanging on for an apology only keeps you in limbo.

Good luck. I really feel for you. It will get better as you move onto more certain ground.

[ilovelilos]

Thank you all, it really is a support to receive your messages.
We went to the doctors and my daughter needs a blood test to see if any damage has been done. So Im in a continual state of upset about that and will be until we hopefully have the all clear.

In the meantime I can totally see my DH struggling with remourse.
He has no idea. He bought me a present yesterday, after I suggested he might. We were in a nice shop after the doctors.
But straight after he said he felt like he was being fined.