One about a sad pregnant lady married to a sad angry man.

[izchaz]

Before I start, please don't read this and say "divorce him, he's a shit head", much as that might be outstanding advice it's not an option I want to engage with. What I'm after is help in turning the negatives in my relationship into positives. How do I let go of the grief and hurt, and how do I persuade my husband to stop beating himself up over the protracted affair he had with my best friend (no longer)? I try every day to push the positives in our relationship: we're a good team, we can laugh and have fun together, we have an incredible group of friends that we share, we are going to be parents to a much wanted baby, and when we are both behaving we have glimpses of what used to be - it's easy to be together and we can both see how much the other loves us. However whenever times get tough - work stress, the whisper of tightening belts, having to multitask or balance multiple issues at once then the whole house of cards crumbles and one of us reverts to recriminations and aiming to wound the other. He is under a huge amount of pressure with work, an impending family bereavement, the worry of my earnings disappearing when I go off on maternity etc etc, and I try so hard to keep him afloat. On the days when I fail, as yesterday he rails and I cannot help but bite back. Last night we fought from 9 at night until 3am, and only stopped because our lodger came home. Once he has started he will follow me from room to room, verbally attacking and prickling me until I re-engage the fight. I am desperate to stop the cycle as I am conscious that our marriage is tiny and frail (married 11 months, his affair was on/off for the first 7, and when confronted twice he lied about it) and I do not feel it can stand up to such punishment without becoming a very twisted paradigm of what we wanted when we got engaged.
Please, help me to figure out how to break the cycle of bad behaviour we have both sunk into, I am miserable with him now, and would be miserable without him, but we had something so good and so precious not so long ago, and I want to find a way back to that.

[maja00]

You know he's a liar and a cheat though, you've said so yourself.

Unless he stops lying and is genuinely remorseful, you can't forgive him.

[PatriciaHolm]

"What I'm looking for is ways to spot when a cycle of anger starts, and how to diffuse them before they become ingrained behaviour."

You CAN'T. Because the only way to stop this is for HIM to be completely on board with you, with the marriage, to be upfront and TAKE THE GUILT for what he did, and to work himself to stop goading and prodding. Which he won't. So no matter how much you try to pacify him, take the blame, see him as a poor misguided male overwhelmed by a poisonous witch, the cycle will continue because HE is a twat of the highest order who, deep down, knows he's got away with it.

If he wanted a future with you and baby, he would be on his knees protesting for forgiveness not following you around the house picking fights. It sounds almost as if he wants you to kick him out, so he can say, "well it wasn't my fault the marriage failed...."

[Greatdomestic]

OP, no one thinks you are stupid.

However, your DH has lied and has cheated on you. IMO posters are trying to tell you that what seems to make him a lost cause is his apparrant failure to take responsibilty for his actions and deflect blame to both the OW and you, rather than the affair itself.

We are all flawed. But having a 7 month affair so early in a marriage is a biggie. As is harranging a pregnant woman for 6 hours.

[Viviennemary]

I think you should try marriage guidance or a therapist. Maybe you can make it work and have a happy relationship. Or maybe this wor't be possible. But you sound determined to try so the couselling route is the only one I can see being in any way worth while. It is hateful to be betrayed like this by a so called friend.

[Chubfuddler]

I think the point you are missing is that many of the people responding to your thread will know exactly what it is like because they've been through it.

[garlicagain]

It is really hard to see, Izchaz. I salute you for sticking with it. Please continue on your thread, breaks & all, because you'll eventually be glad you did. If I may, I'd recommend getting a counsellor as well - a good, strong-minded one - to bounce your thoughts & feelings around safely.

The idea that this forum squeals LTB at the slightest provocation is ridiculous. There are quite a few current threads proving the opposite! Mumsnet does have a reputation for laser vision or uncompromising honesty, when most others turn away from painful facts. This is the reason it attracts a high proportion of posters with serious problems: on some level they know the truth, and come here for support with recognising it consciously.
As I said, I salute you :)

[CinnabarRed]

I also think it's not a great idea to get into the habit of fault-finding with those you love.

Isn't that exactly what he's doing to you?

[garlicagain]

I've married a predator, a liar and a cheat. And that none of those things can be changed.

One of them can! The first.

[Chubfuddler]

He can change. But he has to want to. He sounds more interested in blaming you, the OW, the OW's husband, anyone but himself for his part in this. And he can't and won't change until he takes a good hard look at himself.

Your posts seem driven by the assumption that if only you try hard enough then you will be able to take the entire mantle on your shoulders and do it for both of you. You can't and you'll break yourself trying. Different marital problems, but I did the same. Didn't work.

Also don't be surprised if when you have your baby you start to feel a little contemptuous of your egocentric husband and his failure to prioritise you and his family.

[izchaz]

Garlicagain, I do absolutely demand honesty, respect and fidelity. I expect anyone I have dealings with to have those qualities. I was devastated by my husband's actions, and had he been a friend, a boyfriend, even a family member I would have sent him to hell. But I married him, I stood in front of everyone I've ever given a damn about and promised to love him and honour him for all time. I can't walk away freely until I have done all I can to work with him to repair the damage and build something better from the ruins.
I will absolutely take your advice about a grab bag though, that's a very good idea, thank you.

[Inertia]

You told us he was a liar and a cheat (even if you didn't use those words, it's what the evidence shows).

In the course of describing the rest of his behaviour, you've also told us that he's a bully who verbally abuses his pregnant wife; that he refuses to accept any responsibility for his affair and instead blames you for it; he ditched counselling; he refuses to help sort out your car even though he's a mechanic.

We're not trying to convince you that your husband is some ogre rather than the sweet misguided fool you believe him to be. We're holding a mirror up .

[PramelaAftersun]

OP I'm sorry you feel hectored by us and it must be awful to have some hard truths hammered home about your husband. It is true you have only given us a snapshot of what your relationship feels like and what this man is made of, but the truth is, your situation is far graver than you are letting on to us. We are not there, in your home, when this man is arguing with you for six hours, following you from room to room and blaming you and her for his actions. I can't imagine how screwed up you must be. I am worried for you because your determination to manage this marriage as though it is a precious business you have invested your whole life in is obliterating the truth about this man.

I hope you will return to the thread to re-read some of the excellent and insightful posts that have been written. If any of these offerings are too painful to read it is because you know, deep down, that they are true.

[Inertia]

You can't repair a marriage single-handedly - especially with a man who won't even take responsibility for where his own penis went.

[Chubfuddler]

Don't be embarrassed into wasting your life op.

[cleopatrasasp]

OP, it really just shouldn't be this hard. Marriage is about someone adding to your life and making it easier and vice versa, not all this shit.

[izchaz]

I've just realised the glaring omission I've made in all my posts to this thread, which has certainly coloured the picture I've drawn for all of you: we weren't arguing last night about her, or the affair or his fidelity - all these things have been discussed (heatedly and calmly) in the past 4 months, and can be again if we choose to. We were arguing about his family, my job, his job, the lack of noodles in the cupboard, and why he hadn't shut the windows to keep the bugs out. I'm sorry, I've inadvertently allowed you all to think he was haranguing me about the affair, which isn't the case at all. He was, is and will continue to be prostrate with grief and anger with himself about what he did, he made a series of grave errors and is painfully aware of it, but also knows that she played a huge part in his downfall. He is honest and able to talk about it, although obviously uncomfortable, given his guilt, and we have talked about it all a lot (to the point of sickening detail). I don't want you all to think he's trying to shift blame, he isn't, he takes responsibility for his actions and inactions, but says he cannot help but resent (a very little) that I didn't do the jealous woman routine and demand to know why he was spending so much time with A WOMAN. Heyho, I never thought my lack of jealousy would be my downfall!

[Twinklestein]

izchaz I can understand this is hard to read, fwiw I've seen no hard evidence that your H is predatory, just weak & dishonest.

The cases on here tend to be quite extreme, things have to be fairly bad for someone to get to the point of asking a forum for advice.

I've only arrived here recently but I've seen similar relationship issues crop up on other net forums.

Infidelity features a lot, because it's fairly common.

Equally, there are a lot of women in abusive relationships, we know that from the domestic violence statistics. If women in unhappy relationships gravitate here for advice, it's not surprising if many cases feature unpleasant or abusive men.

That doesn't mean to say all men are like this. I don't personally know any abusive men in real life, although I know men a handful who've been unfaithful. At the same time, I don't know women in real life who have such low expectations of men as some women here.

I generally encourage people to work on relationships, but that's not always possible. Ultimately one can't help but give advice based on what one would do oneself in any given situation.

I can respect your wish to try working on this marriage, but personally, if my husband had cheated on me so soon after marriage, for a protracted period, then tried to blame me, then yelled at me for 6 hours while I was pregnant: he would identify himself as someone who simply was not worth my time. And I can't help wonder why you think he's worth yours.

[MadBusLady]

Agree with Chub. Not everybody here thinks there's no possibility of change.

A lot of us are just trying to explain that your heavily conciliatory approach is the thing most likely to guarantee that nothing will change. This has all happened very, very recently, it has involved the breakdown of a friendship which sounds traumatic, your husband still sounds like an aggressive mess himself shooting blame all over the place AND you are pregnant with all the extra expectations/hormonal ups and downs that implies. It's nothing to do with stupidity, it's just that you're under incredible pressure. You are galloping way, way too fast towards managing your anger and "moving on".

Might be an idea to re-read thread after sleeping on it? I think you need to separate out the LTB advice from other advice, I get the impression you're slightly lumping it all together and rejecting the lot. Good luck with it all whatever happens next.

[Thurlow]

Please stay with this thread, people here do want to support you and help if they can.

But to repeat what others are saying, what your husband has done and is still doing is massive.

If you came on here asking for the same advice about your relationship disintegrating because of cycles of anger, picking on each other etc because you were both exhausted and stressed and kept rehashing old arguments like "we shouldn't have bought this house" or "I told you not to take that job", that's one thing.

But to ask for the same advice because your brand new husband had been sleeping with your best friend for seven months and even now refuses to admit that he was at fault... Can you see the difference? Can you see why we are all responding how we are?

For many people, one party cheating or having an affair won't be the end of a relationship and they will gradually be able to work through it. But they have to work through it together. As someone said above, you can't save this marriage on your own.

Can I ask if your DH is excited about the baby?

[Chubfuddler]

It doesn't matter what he was telling at you for 6 hours about.

[Xales]

Seriously you were followed around and got at for six hours until you argued over noodles and open windows and that doesn't sound fucked up to you?

You asked him twice and he lied about an affair. How many times are you meant to ask someone you have only been married to 11 months. It's called trusting the person you married...

BUT...

it is your fault you didn't do the jealous woman routine

Can you really not see it?

[CocktailQueen]

He blames you for introducing your friend to him? So what are you supposed to do, not introduce any woman to him, keep him away from women?! He needs to man up and take responsibility for his own actions and stop blaming you. IT was his decision. Pure and simple.

[Twinklestein]

To be fair, I don't know about anyone else, I didn't infer the argument was about the affair. You didn't specify. It makes no odds because arguing for that long about bugs, jobs, family is still not normal.

If your husband is that prostrate about this affair, why can't he have the balls to be honest with you? An honest, mature man takes charge of his own life and says this was my mistake, not yours, not the other woman's, mine.

Resenting you for now, even just a little bit, for being unaware he was cheating and not being jealous is ridiculous.

[SirBoobAlot]

He is blaming everyone except himself. And therefore you will get nowhere with him.

He was wrong. And until he accepts that, things will not change.

Why should you suppress how you're feeling when you have every right to those feelings?

I hope even if you don't like some of what has been said, it stays with you, and you can realise he holds the blame here.

[Thurlow]

We were arguing about his family, my job, his job, the lack of noodles in the cupboard, and why he hadn't shut the windows to keep the bugs out

We've argued about all those things. Everyone has. Especially in the heat, and even more so when pregnant.

But six hours of that?

I know you shouldn't compare relationships too much but I don't even think our 'state of the nation', what the hell are we doing debates got anywhere near six hours...