Marrying into a middle class family

[derbyshire]

I'm working class, fairly well educated but sometimes find myself adrift with my MC in-laws. Been married for 15 years, 3 children in primary school. I think most people would say I'm a good mother: BF kids, they're all doing well at school, nice children etc. but often feel I'm just aping the middle-class mores around me.
My ILs don't understand why I'm not more chilled about birthday parties/dinner parties etc but I've never admitted to them that I never had a birthday party when I was young. Certainly no such thing as a dinner party - dinner was something you ate at noon and never in somebody elses's house!
I get so stressed about all those things they find "normal". I've never joined in with the forcing kids to eat veg - my fussy kids eat more veg than my mother! She won't cook for her GC as she said she didn't know how to cook that "stuff" (pasta).
I admit I'm ashamed to admit how much my childhood varies from their upbringing - food really is a class issue!
Strangely enough, educationally I probably outrank them - its all the niceties of life where I'm lacking. Think I'm probably considered "weird" but we never had drinks/socialising at home. I think the gap has become more pronounced as the years have gone on........just find myself struggling more as the years have gone on. Suppose it just feels more and more false.

[ArbitraryUsername]

I do love how middle class suddenly seems to become upper middle class on all MN threads (and whenever the government or the bloody guardian talk about class). I am resolutely (lower) middle class, and never recognise any of the supposed attributes of 'being middle class'.

Where I grew up, stuff like boarding schools wasn't even on anyone's radar. It was the sort of thing that you read about in novels but you didn't think anyone really did. Really posh people sent their kids to the local private schools (and they were referred to as 'private schools' not 'independent schools'). It was only once I was an adult that I realised that I would be considered some kind of in uncultured heathen by the so-called middle classes in middle England.

[wordfactory]

I am from a working class background. Some might say underclass. I now live a very MC lifestyle (educated at oxbridge, actually work there now, married to a lawyer, kids in private school yadda yadda)...but I never identify as MC, nor do I want to because of all those idiotic rules and mores. I will adopt the ones I like and bugger the rest!

[DamnDeDoubtance]

There are people who think manners are about your behaviour towards others and there are people who think manners are about how other people behave towards them.

My in laws are obsessed with thank you notes, who sent them and who didn't and what card they used blah shit blah...

It is all such wank, as someone up thread said earlier a proper genuine heart felt thank you should be enough.

Seriously my sil uses the giving of a gift as a weapon so she can point out how ungrateful you are. I literally get the shakes when I see a thank you note.

Manners are about respect and kindness.

[burberryqueen]

yes damn my brother used to do this, use social occasions to 'educate' people on correct etiquette - for me etiquette is about making people feel comfortable ...so if someone pours their tea into their saucer and slurps it up , the correct thing is to do the same. Whereas my bro would see this as 'wrong' and an opportunity to show people how to do things his way.
what a tosser.
i do like a nice note or card tho, esp. these internet days.

[DamnDeDoubtance]

Incidentally I do send cards and always have done but I never expect one and it doesn't bother me a jot if I don't get one.

My Ils are so passive aggressive I have no defences left, getting twitchy just thinking about it.

I also have no idea what class I am, I grew up on a council estate down south and went to the local comp, but I do have rather a posh accent, no idea why.

[CheerfulYank]

I've had it from the reverse a bit...DH never had birthday parties, just a cake and a present, or signed up for any extra activities or anything. There's nothing wrong with that and obviously he turned out a lovely person as I married him. :o

I always throw a big-ish themed party for DS because I love planning parties, and he is in lots of activities because he is a social boy with lots of energy that needs running off.

My MIL often makes snide comments about all the work I go to, how they want to have DS over if he "doesn't have one of his activities that day," etc, etc.

I think people just get a bit off if it's not what they're used to. Do what works for your family, I certainly do! :)

[downunderdolly]

I agree that making other people feel uncomfortable about their own traditions and ways of doing things is the opposite of having 'class'. As others have said making people feel comfortable in their skin, giving people your undivided attention and really listening to them underpins a polite, engaging 'nice' person.

I think the key is to be 'authentic' to yourself and that doesn't - and I'm not talking about you OP specifically - mean remaining in the ways, traditions and values of how you were bought up (unless you want to) but to decide what is important to you and to be comfortable in those choices and not let others make you feel bad about them.

I no longer live in England but have an American friend who married someone (on paper) super posh (minor title) but very very lovely and years ago when I was talking about the fact that my then boyfriend's mother (MC I guess) was snotty with me about my school and where I grew up, he suggested (and would never actually do it as he had good manners) that the thing that would kill her is to suggest "gosh its a terribly middle class thing to get caught up about these things isn't it" ....

Not in defence but sometimes you get caught up in things for no reason and because perhaps they (ILs) are not sure of themselves etc. I am divorced now but when I was married and just moved here I was guilty of joining in with the local stepford wife playdates of the sort of tepee in back backgarden with home made flags and organic flapjack that is the done thing in these parts in a sort of povochic photo spread way....not sure why just sort of went along with things...post divorce partly pragmatic (time/money) partly fuck it, I just do my own thing and no-one thinks any different - it was in my head that I felt like I had to do these things (and now its aldi biscuits and no one could give a toss).

That said I can't relinquish the thank you cards drummed into me by grandmother my son hates writing them as much as I did

[Mollydoggerson]

Your Kate and your dh is Wills.

Fuck 'em, everyone loves the Middleton's more.

[bettycocker]

I don't think it's all about class. My parents are MC, but they never liked eating out particularly. They can't really be arsed with things like cake forks. What I'm getting at, is the fact that they are the scruffy MC types who have mismatched crockery and read the Guradian.

So, I am pretty ignorant of the world of restaurants and fine dining. I tend to avoid it like the plague.

DP's mother likes to think she is MC, but she is actually WC. She has far more airs and graces than my folks and is far more judgey about certain types of forks, spoons and stuff like that.

[springytato]

Some good reading if you're interested OP:

Mind the Gap by Ferdinand Mount (a toff, but he apologises for it)

The LIkes of Us by Michael Collins. - scroll down and there are a few titles there that might interest you (including Mount's book).

A few articles here which might be of interest.

This article in particular is a good one - 'Think class in relationships was only an issue in Jane Austen's time? Think again. Zoe Williams talks to three couples about their experiences of coupling 'up' or 'down' '.

[JumpingJacks]

I really enjoyed people like us. Found it a very interesting and insightful read.

[onefewernow]

One thing I do notice about my ILs is that less is 'said'; more things are taboo. In my family it is all said, and sometimes too much, and not very tactfully.

This isnt directly a class issue. However, it seems to me related to the cultural values which sit alongside class, and which inter relate with it.

When I started work many years ago in a role which required a facilitative approach, I found it very difficult at first to enable rather than to tell. Now, I notice that my family of origin sometimes find me too indirect.

It can be hard to find a balance and to flex styles according to the people in the room.

[onefewernow]

Just to clarify, I have a working class background and middle class in laws.

[springytato]

Just like remembering to drive on the right the minute I get off the ferry, I have to remember who I'm talking to - are they MC? or WC? If the latter then, yes, do tell them you're having a crap day when they ask how you are. If the former, God help you if you do tell them the truth - you're supposed to say 'Fine thank you! And how are you?' and expect the same reply of 'Fine'. It's bad form to not be 'fine' when you have so much to be grateful for, when the poor people have nothing. If you moan to someone MC, the best that can happen is that MC people assume you're asking for help/can't cope. it makes for endless misinterpretations and bafflement on both sides and some very irritating and patronising/defensive exchanges .

here's an interesting thing: when I have on occasion met the real top drawer, we get on like a house on fire. Very direct, both.

God help you if you're fucked up and go into therapy. Therapists assume you can't express your feelings, have a lot of guilt. Of course, WC can sometimes have both but, generally, it is the MC, with their endless codes and unspoken rules, who have the devil of a job saying it like it is. Whereas I have absolutely no problem with that. I have also had a MC therapist (are there any WC therapists??) chortle with camaraderie that we all have MC guilt - and being offended (or as offended as a therapist can be, admittedly) when I genuinely didn't know what she meant. She probably thought I was in denial or being difficult for the sake of it.

Disclaimer: generalisations a-plenty.

[MrsFrederickWentworth]

Am laughing a lot at lots of this, from my scruffy dog haired filthy semi detached in a middle middle class suburb. I am completely direct, swear like a trooper, with a posh accent that I make several degrees less posh when I go into work and slips back into natural when I see my family.

Ha. And no, I loathe the middletons though Kate seems ok. At least she is bringing more brains in.

Going off to read how mixed up I am.

[alicetrefusis]

Whoever mentioned fish knives and cake forks - dear me, very non-U. Nancy Mitford would be revolving in her grave.

[Lweji]

Not fish knives, alice, fish cutlery. There are forks too. :)
I grew up eating fish once a day, always with fish cutlery. And we are not posh by any means.
We are not British, though.
I think here it's more common to use fish cutlery. They are sold in supermarkets, unlike in the UK.

[DisgraceToTheYChromosome]

When Mum died, we hurled the fish cutlery into the recycling with a joyous clatter.

I'm an HGV driver with a shaved head, a private education (way to fuck your kids up, eh?) a cafetiere and a motorbike. I married a woman who didn't have a inside bog until she was nine, the year she learned read. She earns a LOT more than I do. She introduced me to dripping ("only people from Armley eat that!") proper sausages with all toenails in and gherkins. She stopped me from using "fuck" as a comma, I stopped her from using Pk as a adjective of curry.

24 years together, yay.

[springytato]

Write that book, Y

[WafflyVersatile]

Their unwritten rules are no better than your own.

Being working class is nothing to be ashamed of. Let them raise their eyebrows. You can just say, When I was a kid we didn't have those things and that was quite normal in our wc circle.

I'm sure if it was the other way round a wc family could just as easily raise their eyebrows at the interloper's mc ways.

[Lizzabadger]

Your in-laws sound rude. Just don't worry about any of this stuff. It's all trivia. Do what you want.

[worsestershiresauce]

Disgrace . I think I love you just a little bit for that

[MorrisZapp]

What a load of pish. Who are these posh tossers who make you jump through conversational hoops? I've never met any. I'm MC, at the scruffy/ Guardian end of the spectrum and I recognise nothing of this.

Growing up, it amazed me that in other people's houses they do things differently. It still does. But it's not a class thing, it's just a 'we're all different' thing. Only the paranoid or bitter would equate different personalities to social class.

If I'm honest I've never understood the level to which people get upset about their inlaws on here. I mean unless they live next door and you see them daily, why not just adopt the age old nodding and smiling routine? My MIL is lovely but has her own ways of doing things. Nod and smile. Nod and smile.