Quick poll - if you got married in church, did you choose to 'obey'

[Wuldric]

And did anyone you know choose to obey?

After 22 years of marriage DH told me how very shocked he was when I told him I wasn't going to obey. He seemed not to blink an eyelid at the time. Apparently he was surprised by my radical feminism and how far out I was.

But was it radical? Really?

On September 12, 1922, the Episcopal Church voted to remove the word "obey" from the bride's section of wedding vows. Other churches of the Anglican Communion each have their own authorized prayer books which in general follow the vows described above though the details and languages used do vary.

So women were ditching the obey as far back as 1922. Please tell me I am not out in left field. Not that there is anything wrong with being in left field, I just didn't think I was IYSWIM.

Its probably not even an option nowadays. We got married in 1980 and the vicar told us it as old-fashioned then.

MrsGSR, what does your husband need to protect you from? Do you live in a warzone or a particularly lawless area?

Most of the time he protects me from myself! I'm very clumsy and he walks around after new in shops catching what I knock over...

In all honestly he doesn't need to protect me, but I love that he wants to.

I don't know that we've thought about his vows...the only reason I've thought about mine is because of the "controversial" obey. We do have an equal relationship, and our vows will each reflect that regardless of the exact words we choose.

He may well not say 'obey' but he is not a student of Middle English, and would probably view the word as many posters on here do.

After all, it's just a word. We can all imbue words with different meanings and nuance.

See - this is what I struggle with.

The women who are prepared to say obey, do so despite the words they are saying.

The vast majority of the obeyers are saying 'Well, obey doesn't really mean obey"

But you know, it does.

was married in scotland in Free Church of scotland (presbyterian) where wording of vows is much more varied whether church or registry office and flexible promised to be a faithful, loyal and loving wife; DH did the same

It is indeed just a word. It is a word which has a very specific meaning! No need to try and nuance it with anything else.

Why are you trying to hard to suggest it doesn't mean what it does mean?

That wasn't even an option in the foreign country where I married. The only reason I even knew about it is because I had read the Laura Ingalls books, and she refused to use it (with the support of her groom) sometimes in the 1880s or whenever it was.

should add that I couldn't have even considered promising to obey my husband and he would have felt profoundly uncomfortable with it

to me that is the whole point of marriage: that we are equal partners, listening to each other and guided by each other

noone makes good decisions all the time

As for the Latin: yes, it is a compound of "ob" (towards) and "audire" (to listen)

However, compound words often have a different meaning to their individual parts and even in Latin the word "oboedire" does mean "obey".

Offred, did you have to be so personal? Where did your extrapolation (this is what Mr W says) come from? How is marriage devalued through the personal (brought up rigidly Catholic) inadequate behaviour of one man? There is much more to life than the Wobblies.

I was explaining the translation of the word, where it came from, and what it really means, that 'obey' DOES NOT mean subjection: how does mocking my marriage, take that away?

I checked up and found there is another meaning to 'obey'. It also means, trust. Well, I am in favour of that.

Just because my marriage has been a mockery, does not mean that the institution of mature marriage is anything but a wonderful and desirable thing. I still think wistfully of how it could be, and what I always longed for.

The concept of obey, which is putting aside human wilfullness and submitting to God, in Arabic is called 'Islam'.

Anyway, here is a bibilical explanation seeing as you seem to think I sucked it out of my thumb:

The word "obedience," hupakoe, is quite different from the word "subjection." Its corresponding verb, from which it comes, is hupakouo, and means literally, "to listen to," with the derived sense of "to obey." It has always been translated "obey" in the New Testament excepting at one place, Acts 12:13, where Rhoda comes "to listen to" Peter's knocking. This word has been used nowhere in respect to the wife's duty to her husband, with one safe exception, in an illustration.

Thank you! [bows]

Yabbut, the marriage vows weren't written in Greek, they were written in English in a time where obey would have meant obey and men were considered a superior sort of human to women, and husbands were the masters of their wives. Context is everything.

I promised to obey (in 2000) and DH promised to worship me. It's working so far

No I did not. However, the reason behind not saying this is not what normally would be considered. Without getting too biblical, the "obey" vow from the woman is traded off by an understanding that the man only makes his decision based on his wife's desires and opinions and makes that decision with solely the benefit of the family unit in mind and no selfish desires at play. The way that our vicar described the benefit of the "obey" vow was that it gives a framework for a decision to be made in the event of both spouses being at loggerheads over an extremely important decision (eg. when one spouse has very strong feelings that their child to be educated privately and the other party morally objects to it).

I would have probably vowed to obey had I been confident that DH always made decisions with the above in mind - and as I wasn't 100% confident that he would I didn't obey.

Sorry, that was long and convoluted !!

I got married in the United Reformed Church last year and wasn't given the option to obey. Which was a good job, because I wouldn't have agreed to it and DH would have been flabbergasted if I'd wanted to.

We've been married 15 years, this week, civil wedding rather than church, and No, I did not fucking vow to obey, because it didn't appear in his standard vows.

I did have to remind him a few weeks ago when he 'reminded' me that I had vowed to obey, silly born bastard had forgotten

No I didn't. I'm an adult. If I had wanted a parent I would have stayed at home with my Dad.

MOst certainly not, 26 years ago. However can't remember it actually being an option in the Catholic Nuptial mass, but I would not have said it anyway. Unless DH had too.

He is now after 26 years trained in obedience!