Quick poll - if you got married in church, did you choose to 'obey'

[Wuldric]

And did anyone you know choose to obey?

After 22 years of marriage DH told me how very shocked he was when I told him I wasn't going to obey. He seemed not to blink an eyelid at the time. Apparently he was surprised by my radical feminism and how far out I was.

But was it radical? Really?

On September 12, 1922, the Episcopal Church voted to remove the word "obey" from the bride's section of wedding vows. Other churches of the Anglican Communion each have their own authorized prayer books which in general follow the vows described above though the details and languages used do vary.

So women were ditching the obey as far back as 1922. Please tell me I am not out in left field. Not that there is anything wrong with being in left field, I just didn't think I was IYSWIM.

[insanityscratching]

I've been married 25 years and I said I'd obey. It's not been an issue dh doesn't give orders, we are very much equal in this marriage. I liked the "beautiful old words" I probably wouldn't have had obey if I thought dh would expect me to obey though tbh.

[HorryIsUpduffed]

When I got married (2004, so post-Common Worship) the standard wording did not include "obey" so we would have had to choose to include it particularly IYSWIM. Feminist DM made it very clear that that was not an option I was to consider and actually I don't think our vicar would have been terribly impressed either (he was 25).

In the context of our relationship actually I wouldn't have minded obey/protect, so if the standard wording had included it I'm not sure we would have bothered to choose the alternative. I obey him a lot, of course I do - not because he oppresses me but because he often has sensible ideas about things. I guess he obeys me too particularly when I'm hormonal and it concerns the dishwasher.

The one wedding we went to that included "obey" made a few people raise eyebrows though because the groom seems very passive in the relationship and somewhat henpecked. Obviously we don't know what they're like at home, but it did sort of invite comment, again because it was the "turn to Appendix K for alternative liturgy D" option.

[Offred]

Wuldric, are you not concerned that your dh wants you to obey? I'd be really worried about that, it would have had me doubting the whole relationship...

[Offred]

Horry, that's not obeying though is it. Obeying is where there is a difference of opinion about what is right and you always defer to his supposed greater knowledge because he is the 'team captain'. Agreeing that he has a good point and him sometimes agreeing with you is not the same.

[HorryIsUpduffed]

That includes where there is a difference of opinion, actually. We tend to default to his having the final say in certain areas eg finance because that's where his talents lie.

There are obviously some arenas where I would always insist on retaining my veto though - bodily autonomy things.

[Offred]

Yeah, that's my point. Obeying is not subjectively geared to individual skills it is about obeying the man because he is the man and is assumed to be better in every way. So if your particular talent was finance you still defer to him because he is the man. Obviously it is sensible to organise a marriage around people's skills unless one partner is choosing to be helpless so as to avoid sharing work but obeying is not that!

[Wuldric]

I am indeed concerned that he wants me to obey. We do have problems in our very lengthy and battle-scarred marriage, which have always been present. Apparently the cause of our problems is because of my refusal to obey, which he is presenting as atypical in our society.

I don't think that refusing to obey is atypical, and I think this thread has proved that. The women who have undertaken to obey have largely done so out of respect for an older tradition. It's still not clear to me whether or not they have been obedient throughout their marriages, or how this obedience manifests itself. But perhaps that's another thread.

[scarlettsmummy2]

Married 5 years- no obey

[Offred]

:(

If only you would obey and behave as his property/recognise his view of himself as superior(!)

:(

[Offred]

I do think though it is not the issue really. I'm sure it is not atypical to refuse to obey. I don't think he wants you to because he thinks everyone else does either. He wants you to because he wants to be the boss and to have a slave. You don't want to be a surrendered wife and that's the crux of the real problem, who cares what's going on in the rest of the world?

[HorryIsUpduffed]

Yes, that is depressing.

fwiw I think the discussion of whether or not one should endeavour to obey is different from that of whether one should vow to obey. There will be plenty of women who happily do one but not the other.

I'm not going to talk more about my relationship because (A) I'm not explaining well and (B) it's NOYB

[KatieScarlett2833]

It never came up and if it did I would have never said it. Obey? Is it 1534? I think not

[Flobbadobs]

No obeying here and the vicar asked "who brings this woman to be married" rather than "gives".

[MrsGSR]

wuldric if you don't want to say obey you definitely shouldn't. It's your vow not your partners so it should be your choice.

In answer to your question if we ever did disagree on something and he overruled me I would accept that, so far it hasn't happened. We both put our points across and one of us (usually him!) realises the others way is better. And we do pay to our strengths still, I'm in charge of money as I'm better with it.

[Dackyduddles]

04 - why would I obey once married? Never did before! Hell freeze first too....

[pinkyredrose]

MrsGSR I bet you couldn't wait to change your name aswell.

[MrsGSR]

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say pinky, I wasn't sure about changing my name as I only have a sister so my dad will be the last with our name.

[Tortington]

i think i did say traditional wedding vows - they might have had obey in. I was only 17 and it didn't occur to me to change it.

However i have never took the words literally, for if i had, DH would be my WIFE - becuase that is what the Canon who conducted the wedding called him :)

[Fillyjonk75]

Nine years ago - no!

We had a female vicar and she by default offered the non-obey wording. She did mention the "more traditional" vows but that "hardly anyone chooses those" and quickly dismissed them.

[CVSFootPowder]

I've spoken to exH who assures me that saying 'obey' was discussed at our first meeting with the vicar. The vicar apparently made it clear that many couples were no longer using that form of the marriage service but it was entirely our choice.

[BellaVita]

We got married in 1987 and I didn't say it, neither did DH.

[Wuldric]

Thanks forall your responses :)

I don't think husbands have the option of saying 'obey' do they? You can vow to anything you like in civil ceremonies but in church ceremonies I think there are prescribed forms of wording and only brides get the option of obedience

[Hmmletmesee]

No offence to anyone who agreed to obey, but it reminds me of this.

[CVSFootPowder]

Wuldric, husbands don't have the option to say 'obey' - it was assumed that because he's the man we were supposed to obey him and he could do whatever the hell he wanted. He was in charge.

[treaclesoda]

My wedding was almost called off without about 48 hours notice because the minister conducting it said that obey was non negotiable. I was almost hysterical, standing at the wedding rehearsal sobbing that it had never been mentioned before, and I had no idea that it was expected of me. It was a stand in minister, as regular minister was unavailable, and eventually I convinced him that regular minister said that it was ok. He wasn't happy about it though. This was late 90s.

My church's argument on this matter is that the bible commands that the husband protect his wife and put her needs before his own, and that this is a much.more onerous thing to ask of someone than merely to obey. Although only last year I sat through sermon where the minister said that even if the husband was going to make a terrible error, such as a bad investment that would lose the entire family savings, the wife's duty is to respect his decision and she should not overstep the mark by trying to make him change his mind. . I truly could not believe my ears. That minister is a young man too, its not like he is from a different generation.