Estranged Toxic Mother and the Family Fallout

[OPGangnamStyle]

Hi, Wise Ones!

I would really value some input on my situation please. I am actually in a really good place, but would like some insight re my brother's behaviour. I also think I just need to get it all out.

This is going to be looooooong.
I shall try and be as succinct as possible, whilst imparting what I think is relevant information.

Background.
My father left the family home when I was 12, and my brothers were 10 and 7. My mother raised us as a single parent, my father barely saw us, and when I reached adulthood, I officially cut ties with him as I felt he wasn't that bothered about any of us. Haven't seen or heard from him since I was 21. I am now nearly 40.
My mother did her best, struggled financially. I know she had a lot on her plate, and no help. All of her siblings live on the other side of the planet, and her parents were dead before I was born. The only tangible family I had were her and my two brothers.
She has always been opinionated, bossy, critical, grade A never enough; why didn't you get A+, her way or the highway, stubborn, strict, overbearing. I don't think she managed well when we hit adulthood and had our own opinions.
We all muddled along ok for the next 20 years, didn't all see loads of each other (her, my brothers, me): this seemed to suit us all, as we all lead independent lives, and I don't think we have much in common.

More recent times!
I get married, we have a son, born autumn 2010 (first and currently only grandchild). Straight away the opinions come in, I should do this, do that, that's not how it's done. We used to do this in the seventies, times have changed, mother, I tell her that current research supports this or that, HV is happy with newborn and development etc, he is thriving, happy, thanks for your opinion, please feel free to offer me advice once, but if we (husband and I) say we are doing it another way, you drop it. We aren't going to change our minds just because you go on and on about it. You don't have any say in how he is raised. But she couldn't ever stop, and I felt undermined, belittled, nagged, stressed. When our son was 13 months old, I felt he was really starting to understand that I was being undermined, criticised, and I didn't feel this was a healthy environment for any of us, so I said more firmly to her, that she had to stop. She said no, she could say what she liked, regardless of my feelings (if you recognise this, yes, I did post about it on here at the time, and was told by most of the people replying that she was toxic and I was being reasonable to distance myself: indeed, I should, for the benefit of my child). I was so stressed, her visits sapped my joy and my strength, and I'd had enough. She stopped visiting, yippee.
A few months later, my husband got a new job and we moved a 90min flight away. I feel relieved. I feel like a weight has been lifted.

A poster on my original thread warned me to watch out for the family fallout. Well, here it is. My brothers have only recently been made fully aware of the situation.

Autumn 2012, six months after we moved away, my brother sends a group email to me, my mother and other brother. Just general chat, nothing great. I reply to both brothers, cutting my mother out of the CC field, as I do not correspond with her any more. My brother demands that I reply all in future, and I say no, his mother and I aren't speaking. Both brothers push to know why. I don't feel it is fair to colour their judgement of my mother, so say it is between her and me. They get some info from her, obviously, so I give my version, pretty much as spelled out above. They don't get it at all, and tell me I must let her into my life, she should be able to say whatever she wants, she is our mother. I say no, I don't need the stress, thanks, and I am very happy with how things are.
My younger brother emails me to tell me he thinks I am pathetic and cruel, that when he has children he'd love our mother's input oh how I chortled at that and blocks me on Fb. I don't see why he felt the need to take sides, our relationships are separate, in my mind.

Xmas 2012 my eldest brother sends my husband the following email. I will change the names to protect our identities, and rather than DS, DB, DH etc, I'll give us names as with it being from my brother, I think it will get confusing.

I will be Opal (OP for short!).
My husband is Harry.
My son is Stan.
My friend is Felicity.
Eldest bro is Brian.

I'll do it in the next post, as this is already long, and I think it will make it clearer. I would like some insight please into what my brother is on, basically! I don't feel any great need to respond to him (the email was to my husband, he didn't reply). I feel he does not enhance my life, and is no great loss. In the 18 months of my son's life, before we moved further away with my husband's job, when we lived a 30 minute drive from this brother, we saw him maybe three times. So, really, no great loss.
My younger brother was CCed in on the email to my husband, replied all just basically saying he agreed with the other brother.

Today I get an email from him, CCed to other brother and mother, all breezy, hi, how's everyone, just checking in! Like nothing had happened, and he wants a reply, despite sending that email at Xmas to my husband. I think I should just ignore him, draw a line under my family, and focus on my lovely husband and son. Or should I reply?

Thanks so much if you have read to the end!!! Ach, it was good to get it out anyway.

[pluCaChange]

I have an email filter set up to delete all emails from my ex-family that don't contain the word "sorry"

Brilliant!

I don't feel it's really worth fixing anything after that utterly despicable, vile obnoxious email to my husband, going behind my back, just abhorrent.

Absolutely up to you. He sounds like a knob to us, but by the same token, sometimes it's hard to tell other people a story like this and have them completely condemn someone you then find you have a little sympathy for. Not the case in your situation, obviously, but it is all right to have mixed feelings about family who are twats!

[MadBusLady]

Sorry if this has been covered, but the first thing that leapt out was "Your mother favoured the boys, didn't she".

Even if he can't agree with your decision about going no-contact, that is a truly poisonous email, sexist, unreasonable, patronising, arrogant, just all-round vile. What on earth can you do with someone who thinks like that??

[MadBusLady]

As to your question of should you reply to the recent breezy email - if you think it's just going to lead straight on to "So what about the email I sent Harry" then clearly, no! Is there any chance (I am bending over backwards here) this is his attempt at a prelude to an apology?

[diddl]

Well he´s a chip off the old block, isn´t he??

Don´t reply.

Surely if you do he´ll think that you´ve taken on board, & agreed with the email he sent to your husband?

And no hint of an apology for what he wrote?-

Ignore, ignore, ignore!

"She said no, she could say what she liked, regardless of my feelings"-er, no-even children know that that´s not OK.

[diddl]

Forgot to ask-is your mum old/ill?

[newgirl]

jeez - he hasn't actually offered to do anything kind and helpful - hes just telling you all off!

poor you :(

If brother had any point in all that,he has lost it with his ranting.

[slug]

I read the email and all I could picture was a Victorian scene of a young chap, recently elevated to the head of the family status, having a strained hearty 'chat' with the BIL about keeping the filly in line. "Mater's very upset you know" that kind of thing. Along with an awkward manly pat on the back and a bit of pacing with hands behind the back.

[PostHocErgoPropterHoc]

This has made fascinating reading OP. I've recently gone no contact with my mother, for pretty much the exact same reasons as you give, and while none of my siblings are quite such massive knobs as your brother, they are all definitely of the opinion that I am wrong. None of them have shown the slightest bit of interest in finding out what has led me to take this drastic step, they just know I'm wrong, our mother is upset, and it's my job to make everything right again.

I also have the only grandchildren in the family, and as a result have had a much more intense (I wouldn't say close...) relationship with her than any of the others in recent years. They don't understand, and I don't think they will until they have children. You can take the criticism and negativity and judging for yourself as you've lived with it forever, but when you see it being aimed at your children it's suddenly obvious how damaging it is.

[NigellaTufnel]

Reply to everyone with the text of the email cut and pasted in.

With the heading : Hi!? I presume you're joking? You've insulted me and described me in the most horrendous terms to my husband.
Do you think there are no repercussions, or do you want to come round and sort me out.

Come back when you have kids

[LineRunner]

PostHoc I went no contact with my mother for various reasons but a massive one was that she and the brothers were - for want of a better term - ganging up on my sister, and I had to either collude or reject.

Now all of brothers have the mater for all of the holidays and indeed all of her future life, and good luck to them and their marriages with that one.

[OPGangnamStyle]

So what happened, Lunatic, did SIL end up doing the caring?

I mostly don't think about it either, and feel calm and peaceful.

Thanks, plu. No real mixed feelings. I do pity him, he sounds so clueless, lacking in empathy, kindness, understanding.

MadBus, I am not sure about that, I haven't really though that she favoured her sons. If anything, I turned out more how she would have hoped, re my independence and financial savvyness. Both sons ran up huge debts, merely living above their means, and she was devastated about that. I am also the only one who has a degree, even though she invested so much effort in getting us all a good education. What in my messages (or his!) lead you to think this? I will ponder it some more.
I don't think his breezy email is an attempt to apologise. I don't know. I shall keep you posted if an apology is forthcoming! :)

Going to hit send and then reply to the other points later, toddler is about, and I don't want to lose this post.

[waltermittymissus]

The thing is, people like your mother don't tend to change. Your brothers are either cut from the same cloth or have been brainwashed to the point that they're probably never going to change either.

You have a good life now. A supportive DH, a lovely child and friends/family that are normal and well-adjusted.

I just don't think this is a can of worms you need to open.

If you've made your peace with no contact then stick with it. Don't get sucked in to conversations about it because that's just feeding it.

If your brothers can't have a relationship with you without your DM being involved in some way then that's unfortunate but no great loss IMO.

You've done well. It's a bloody hard thing to do, cut out a parent. If he didn't have the sensitivity of a spatula, he could perhaps try to comprehend this.

[MadBusLady]

It was really just the way he sides so utterly and determinedly with her. "Opal is 100% wrong". It's such an extreme, and daft, thing to say.

Though now I think about it, it could just as easily come out of his fear of her and desire to please her, as being favoured. Ie he has disappointed her in other ways but he can still be "better" than you at siding with her in a fight!

[OPGangnamStyle]

diddl, yes! It's a miracle I've turned out as well as I have!
And yes, exactly. It was that which spurred me to be firmer about what we wouldn't tolerate, when DS was becoming more aware of his world, I don't want him learning that we can't expect to have our boundaries respected, nor should we put up with bad behaviour in relationships.
My mother is late sixties, in decent health last I knew, but that was over a year ago.

Thanks, newgirl. Yes, nothing helpful or constructive at all. He hopes to shame me into having a relationship with our mother??? Who on earth thinks that could possibly work! And what does he think, as a man of action, he can actually DO?! Drag me along to our mother's house by force?

slug He is a bit like that!

PostHoc, well, your siblings have time! It took my brother a while to work up to this rage! I am sorry you are going through it too, but I firmly believe we are doing the best thing for our children. Best of luck to you. And as someone said on my first thread, be ready for the fallout.

Nige, I would LOVE to know how he feels once he has children, and our mother does the same to him and his partner. That's if he ever finds someone to put up with him in the first place!
As LineRunner says, "good luck to them and their marriages with that one!".

[TheArmadillo]

Wow I didn't realise that other people had got these letters.

Mine was sent to my PIL essentially telling them that not only was by behaviour unjustified but there was no possible situation in which it would be justified and that my PIL needed to put me back in control/get me to behave to order.

Like your brother, the relative has never contacted me directly, which I think says a lot. Also they only want me and ds, not dd and dh Took them over 3 years to send it as well.

Don't respond, I know it can be tempting, but it only opens up a line of communication for them to keep up the abuse through.

[diddl]

I wonder if the "breezy" email is to try to drag you back in as she is now equally dependant on them for a relationship rather than the three way split iyswim.

[OPGangnamStyle]

Gosh, Armadillo, that's outrageous! To your PIL!!! That's worse, I think, than sending a letter to one's spouse. You've just reminded me! My cousin, who's estranged from her mother, our uncle sent a letter to her PIL, telling them what a bitch she is! She is sooooo lovely, merely doesn't want anything to do with her toxic mother! Sheesh!

diddl, possibly. I shall wait and see if we get any more emails!

I won't reply, but I was tempted to just reply to the email to my husband: Did you mean to sound so rude?!

[TheArmadillo]

Luckily for me my PIL are awesome.

It's another one of those things that I didn't realise followed the abusers handbook, until I saw others got them. It's weird how they all follow a particular pattern.

I was brought up pressurised to keep everything secret and not share anything with anyone bar my immediate family, so you don't realise what they are doing and are all kept from seeing others going through the same.

Threads like this really help even at this stage where I've mostly come to terms with it. The growing awareness of their being others in the same position- that it's not me, though obviously it would be nicer if no one had to go through it.

I think breaking the silence/secrecy that abusive families rely on is a necessary and important stage. It's fantastic that you have the support of your dh, friend and cousin. I know without my dh, in-laws, and friends, I never would have escaped. Without the support and advice I got on here I would never have realised that what was happening wasn't my fault and that there was a way out.

[OPGangnamStyle]

So are my cousin's PIL, who luckily adore her, and see how happy she makes their son, how great the children are, so they just ignored our uncle's crazy letter!
I am now wondering if my PIL have received a letter! Not sure if my brother would know how to get hold of them though, so hopefully not!

I was also brought up to keep everything secret, not tell anyone anything whatsoever about the family! My mother is very secretive, there is so much I don't know about her heritage or her parents and siblings. She just will not say.

I am so glad you are feeling well-supported.

[ihadonetoo]

Mine sends her letters to my blood relatives who are her ex-ILs.

She was unfaithful to my father, divorced him - even annulling the marriage - and still expects his family to run round being her little enforcers.

Unfortunately as she is Very Charming and Bravely Tearful, and they're upright, trusting and generous, they sometimes swallow the lure.

[Astelia]

My jaw hit the ground reading what your brother wrote OP. I agree with everything already said- if he had any point at all it was completely destroyed by his pompous, patronising and deeply unpleasant email. Sending it to your DH was unbelievable behaviour.

However I think your DB does need to be called on this, ignoring the emails will leave him thinking he is in the right. I think your DH should phone him and tell him his emails were vile and not to contact your family again.

[Angelico]

There is something particularly low about sending a message to your spouse. I posted a while back about my mum doing this during a row. I have never seen my DH so angry - he is very mild mannered in the usual course of things.

After a couple of low contact weeks things returned to 'normal' but only because I warned my mum that when we next met I would not be discussing what had happened full stop as we would never agree. I think in her case there are a few narc tendencies combined with menopausal madness and I wouldn't describe her as toxic - but she went way too far and think she realised this herself.

Anyway sorry OP - this just made me think! In my case I love my mum and want her in my life, I would be very sad without her. But if your life is better without your mum in it that probably tells you everything you need to know.

[OPGangnamStyle]

ihadonetoo, letters plural! Geeze! I hope your GPs know what she is about.

It's so pompous, isn't it! Astelia, I don't know about contacting him/having DH contact him. Mostly I feel he isn't even worth the effort. I don't think he'll feel he's in the right, in the long run, especially when no result is forthcoming. I am hoping he HAS spoken with someone outside of the family, and that they have put him straight. Because bottom line, whatever his course of action is, no one can force anyone else to have a relationship with someone else if they don't want to. Bullying me into relenting isn't going to produce a pleasant relationship if I'm there against my will. I can't believe with all his study of psychology he doesn't know this!

Thanks, Angelico, I agree. But it seems it is not uncommon a tactic! I am glad you are able to work things out with your mother. Mine, I feel, has lost me. I cannot believe someone could be so stubborn to prefer being able to speak their mind incessantly/nag her daughter/trample on my feelings, to being respectful of our simple wishes and enjoy a lovely, easy relationship with me and my child instead.