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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Don't give up work to be a SAHM unless

936 replies

akaemmafrost · 27/11/2012 20:18

You have a HEFTY private income or can work from home.

I gave up work, usual reasons, wages would barely cover childcare, WE wanted kids to be at home with a parent.

Fast forward. I now have two dc, the father of my dc cheated on me, physically, emotionally and financially abused me.

One of my dc has SN and cannot attend school for the moment.

I've been out of work for 10 years now, I have no profession. In 6 years time our child support will stop as will most of our benefits. I will near fifty having not worked at all for 18 years.

My future is shit. Utterly grey and bleak. All I have to look forward to is a state pension. While my ex earns a fortune, travels the world and has new relationships.

This is reality for me. So think long and hard about giving up work to stay at home because no matter how shit your job is it's preferable to my future don't you think?

And it was all decided for me by a man who decided he hated me and didn't want to be married anymore and a child being diagnosed with significant SN.

It's that simple.

OP posts:
akaemmafrost · 28/11/2012 17:24

My charming ex tells me that the law and benefits system are the main cause of marriages breaking down. As they make it too easy for the woman to leave a marriage Hmm. According to him we should stick it out, marriage is for life blah blah blah Him being the person he is, holding this view makes me feel that the powers that be have got something right anyway. I've often wondered how these laws were decided and by whom.

OP posts:
Narked · 28/11/2012 17:25

Thought not WordFactory. The family home is often sold isn't it.

autumnlights12 · 28/11/2012 17:28

You haven't stated facts. You've stated an opinion. Don't confuse opinion with factual information.

AnnieLobeseder · 28/11/2012 17:28

The same happened to my mum. After following my dad all over the world she was left for a younger model and now faces a very bleak future. You can be sure that will never happen to me. Any woman who doesn't ensure she has a good pension and investments of her own to protect her future if she chooses to stay at home is an absolute fool.

wordfactory · 28/11/2012 17:30

narked it depend son so many variable.

In an ideal world the children should be able to continue living in the family home. But in order to make that work the husband needs to be able to faciliatate the morgage on it and provide himself with somewhere else to live (suitable for the DC to stay).

Most times it's just not workable, particularly if the DC are young and the arrangement going to last a long time. The husband may simply not earn enough to run two homes.

Of course it would be much more doable if the wife earned somehting too. But the difficulty is her finding work if she has been out of the work place for long periods.

wordfactory · 28/11/2012 17:31

autumn that what you have stated is ignorant and incorrect vis a vis the law is fact.

I will give it to you that fidning you boring is simply my opinion.

Narked · 28/11/2012 17:33

That's what I thought was the case - how many people earn enough to service their current mortgage and pay for a second home for themselves that has at least 2 bedrooms + child support?

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 28/11/2012 17:33

autumn
The statement that there is no rule that that the SAHP gets the house is a fact. There is no rule, it is an option not a requirement. It is an option that gets weighed in the balance by the judge depending on the individual circumstances of the case.

This is really really basic and important for people to understand -each case is decided on its own merits within the framework of options available to the judge - you cannot be absolutely certain of the outcome until the judge has ruled and no two cases will give absolutely identical results.

elastamum · 28/11/2012 17:34

Ok, for those of you who want to argue whether becoming a single parent is a potential route to poverty, or something that happens to someone else here are some facts from gingerbread:

It is pretty depressing reading Sad

?Just over a quarter (26 per cent) of households with dependent children are single parent families (1), and there are 2 million single parents in Britain today. (2) This figure has remained consistent since the mid-1990?s
?Less than 2 per cent of single parents are teenagers (3)
?The median age of single parents is 38.1 (4)
?Around half of single parents had their children within marriage ? 49 per cent are separated from marriage, divorced or widowed (5)
?59.2 per cent of single parents are in work, up 14.5 percentage points since 1997 (6)
?The employment rate for single parents varies depending on the age of their youngest child. Once their children are 12 or over, single parents? employment rate is similar to, or higher than, the employment rate for mothers in couples (71 per cent of single parents whose child is 11-15 are in work) (7)

Who are single parents?
?There are 3 million children living in a single parent household (23% per cent of all dependent children) (8)
?Around 8 per cent of single parents (186,000) are fathers (9)
?The average duration of single parenthood is around 5 years (10)
?Only 6.5 per cent of all births are registered alone, and 10 per cent are registered to two parents who live apart (11)
?Single fathers are more likely to be widowed than single mothers (12 per cent of single fathers are widowed, compared with 5 per cent of single mothers), and their children tend to be older (12)
?Just under half of couples divorcing in 2009 had at least one child aged under 16. Over a fifth (21 per cent) of the children in 2009 were under five and 63 per cent were under eleven (13)

The proportion of single parent families has increased since the 1970s, but it hasn?t changed much in the last ten years
?In 1971 just 8 per cent of families with children were single parent families (14)
?In 1998 24 per cent of families with children were single parent families (15)
?In 2011 26 per cent of families with children were single parent families (16)

Single parent families and poverty

?Children in single parent families have a much higher risk of living in poverty than children in couple families. Around four in every 10 (41 per cent) of children in single parent families are poor, compared to just over two in every 10 of children in couple families (17)
?Paid work is not a guaranteed route out of poverty for single parents; the poverty rate for single parent families where the parent works part time is 23 per cent, and 18 per cent where the parent works full time (18)
?The median weekly income for working single parent families doing 16 hours a week or more is £337, compared with £491 for couple families with one worker and £700 where both parents work (19)
?43 per cent of single parents are social housing tenants compared to 12 per cent of couples (20)
?71 per cent of all single parent renters receive housing benefit compared to 25 per cent of all couple renters (21)
?Single parent households are the most likely to be in arrears on one or more household bills, mortgage or nonmortgage borrowing commitment (31 per cent) (22)
?38 per cent of single parents said that money always runs out before the end of the week/month compared to 19 per cent of couples (23)
?63 per cent of single parents have no savings compared to 34 per cent of couples (24)

Work and childcare

?Where single parents are not working, this is often because there are health issues that make work difficult: 33 per cent of unemployed single parents have a disability or longstanding illness (25) and 34 per cent have a child with a disability (26)
?Over half of single parents are in work (59.2 per cent), up 14.5 percentage points since 1997. In the same period, the employment rate of mothers in couples has risen three percentage points to 71 per cent (27)
?Single parents rely heavily on informal childcare. Of those using childcare, 46 per cent said it was informal. (28) For single parents working 16 hours a week or more 34 per cent had a childcare arrangement with the child?s grandparents, and 17 per cent had an arrangement with their ex-partner (29)
?Working single parents paying for childcare are much more likely than working couples paying for childcare to find it difficult to meet childcare costs (32% compared to 22% of couples where one partner is in work, and 20% of couples where both work) (30)

Child maintenance

?Only two-fifths (38 per cent) of single parents receive maintenance from their child?s other parent (31)
?For all those with an agreement for child maintenance (both through the CSA and private arrangement) the median weekly amount received is £46 per family (32)
?The average amount of child maintenance liable to be paid through the CSA is currently £33.50 per week (£22.50 if all cases with a weekly assessment of zero are included in the average). (33) Among parents with care in receipt of income-related benefits, the average amount is £23 (excluding cases with a weekly assessment of zero) (34)
?Of single parents receiving child maintenance through the CSA, 40 per cent receive less than £10 per week, 38 per cent receive between £10 and £50 per week and 22 per cent receive more than £50 per week (35)

Narked · 28/11/2012 17:35

'I will give it to you that finding you boring is simply my opinion'

You should charge for giving your opinion Grin

autumnlights12 · 28/11/2012 17:36

it's neither ignorant nor incorrect to state that in many or most divorce cases the sahm usually receives a larger cut of any equity. Just google it if you think I'm making it up.

wordfactory · 28/11/2012 17:39

narked that is true.

The original case where the law changed and what a SAHM did was finally given its value was a landmark case. However the couple were millionaires.

It simply doesn't work well when there is not enough to go around.

Statistically, women post divorce find themselves much poorer. And still beholden to a man who they are now no longer commited to! This is one of the reasons for the original introduction of FTC.

And let's not get started on women post separation!

Narked · 28/11/2012 17:40

Be careful not to trip up with all that back pedalling. You said SAHMs getting divorced would get to live in the family home until the youngest DC was 18.

wordfactory · 28/11/2012 17:41

autumn yes women often do receive a larger cut of the equity...because the family home is sold!

wordfactory · 28/11/2012 17:42

And who wants a cut of the equity?

If its not enough to buy a house outright, what will a SAHM do? How will she get a mortgage?

elastamum · 28/11/2012 17:42

But you cant eat a house! We live in a walloping great house, which I took as part of my divorce settlement and couldnt sell (was on the market 3 yrs, not a single offer as no one wants an old drafty listed building next to a river in a recession).

Costs a fortune to heat and bits of it are falling down. If I didnt have my own income we would be completely knackered. As it is only I am completely knackered Grin

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 28/11/2012 17:43

autumn

OK lets assume for a minute that its correct that SAHP get a larger share of the equity. Are they really better off? The WOHP is happily earning away and paying some maintenance. The SAHP is surviving on that maintenance and the equity if it can be realised at all at the time i.e. equity in a house you can't sell doesn't put food on the table. Can't you see that even after an unequal divorce settlement the SAHP may be significantly worse off in income terms than the WOHP and may struggle to get a job to supplement their limited income?

Pagwatch · 28/11/2012 17:43

I have been on loads of sahm vs wohm threads where there has been sahm bashing and wohm bashing.
And I even know wo some of the usual sahm bashes are.

To view this as a sahm bashing thread you must - to quote CJ Cregg - really want it

It is useful though.
At least the message is being repeated so often and with such clarity that only the determinedly stupid could walk away not recognising the basic message - that women must take as many steps as possible to gain some financial security.

wannaBe · 28/11/2012 17:43

the statement that the mother gets to stay in the house until the children are eighteen is utter rubbish. We investigated this when me and dh decided to split up

In fact dh' solicitor told him this is becoming less and less prevalent.

elastamum · 28/11/2012 17:45

And if you dont have proof of an income for over 3 yrs, you cant get a mortgage anyway

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 28/11/2012 17:45

x post with quite a few people all pointing out that bricks and mortar whilst still in the form of bricks and mortar not cash are not edible and don't pay for new school shoes.

wordfactory · 28/11/2012 17:50

wannabe it is getting far less prevalent.

Reasons include the fact that courts are relaising that unless the DH is on board then forcing him to facilitate a mortage when he doesn't want to results in repossessions. Better to sell at the best price.

Also even if the DH wants and can facilitate the mortgage the lender has to agree and they are not amenable at present.

Also, the courts realise that it simply isn't tenable for many DH's in the current climate.

Also, 50/50 residence is becoming more common so the DH can argue for a much bigger place...

takataka · 28/11/2012 17:51

autumn i think you are only considering divorce where the man is a substantial earner. In such cases the SAHM may get a decent financial sum. But there are many many many cases where the husband is only just earning enough to support the family; so when divorce happens there isnt any money to support 2 seperate families...

TroublesomeEx · 28/11/2012 17:54

God reading this is just making me wish I'd stayed single and childless and think that I will advise my children to remain single and childless Sad

When my parents got divorced my dad was determined to "do right" by my mother, my brother and me. I don't think my mum realised just how well she did out of it tbh.

tomverlaine · 28/11/2012 18:03

I do feel sorry for the OP and the other posters.
I have a slightly different view point. My DP is a SAHP but has given up a lot more of work than he needs to-he looks after DS part-time but could work the remainder of the time (he is self employed and much of his work is outside normal working hours)- he chooses to spend his spare time doing other stuff eg his hobbies;
Now although I am fine with this, I would have problems if a court was to believe that giving up work was something he had done at my request or for the family (if it came to a court)- while he thinks that is what they would say. So how do you prove whether something was a joint decision or not? does he need to prove that we have benefitted from his decision
i am trying to protect myself from having to support someone in a life of leisure for ever...