Anyone there please? DP admitted to kissing someone in the pub.

[Owlfright]

I've namechanged as I'm worried my usual name is too recognisable to family and friends.

If there is anyone awake who could hold my hand I would be so grateful.

A friend told me this evening (sat) that last night my DP had been seen "snogging" another woman in a pub. He was out with some friends.

I've confronted him and he initially denied it, but then admitted it.

I'm not sure there is a word for how I feel- shell shocked shocked, sick, panicky.

We've been together 9 years and have a fabulous 5yo DS together. Things have been tense for a few weeks following a disagreement between us, but I fully expected us to be able to work through it.

He has said sorry, but I'm ashamed to admit he doesn't seem very sorry. I confronted him around 11.30pm fully expecting him to be full of remorse but he just kept referring to the fact that we've not been getting on.


I felt so angry that I had to get out of the house (DS is staying with my mum), I'm due to collect him in the morning. I drove round for a bit, and for some reason checked myself into a cheap hotel.

I'm there now, unable to sleep and frantic with not knowing what to do.

I know it's a cliche and people say its not so important but I'm petrified of turning our sweet loving little boy's world upside down. He adores his dad and would be devastated if he was to leave.

I can't believe this is happening, I don't know what to do.

[Offred]

Oh owl. The thing is you can't make him love and care for you and I really think it is obvious that he doesn't. He isn't a good dad if he lets you do all the crap and sweeps in for the fun.

[ErikNorseman]

In my own experience I didn't split with h for a good 6 months after finding out, so I certainly won't judge you or lose patience if you don't jump to LTB. It took me a while to realise that he just didn't love me enough (and nor I him to be fair) and that it would never be good enough. It may be that you reach that decision, it may not. He may pull it out of the bag and 'get it'. But I do know that ending a marriage is a huge decision and if you don't feel right about it you will have regrets- so keep thinking, don't stick your head in the sand, keep pushing for what you want and need and you will get to the place you need to be, one way or another.

[DontstepontheMomeRaths]

I used to write e-mails.

After I started reading Shirley Glasses book, I saw things clearer and articulated my needs better. ExH probably wished I'd never picked up that book

[Owlfright]

Bit of a shock to see two posts right after one another pointing out he doesn't love me, or doesn't love me enough. It must seem so obvious to you, so why can't I believe it?

Thank you for sharing your experience eric, were you sure you had done the right thing after you split up from your ExH?

[Offred]

I think he's doing a good job of making you happy with the crumbs of what he gives you and afraid that those crumbs will be taken away.

I can't comment on what he feels for you.

I can comment on what you've described he shows you.

He does not show you love, care, respect, he doesn't behave like a partner or a father. He giveth and he taketh away like a little God, and he makes sure you feel super grateful for the not enough that he provides. Either he doesn't love you or he isn't capable of a loving relationship.

[ErikNorseman]

I was sure, yes. But we had split 3 times prior and got back together so it was a long process.
My experience is not yours - I'm not saying that. But I realised, the way he was towards me - it didn't feel like love, and it wasn't wht I believed love should feel like. And that if he actually did love me he would have acted and felt differently.

[scaevola]

I am so sorry. He doesn't sound remotely penitent.

I do like the letter by doha though it might be better to say it than write it. You could usefully add that he should fuck off to his job as he said that's what matters most to him.

[DonkeysDontRideBicycles]

I don't know what I'd write but I'd certainly look him in the eye and say whatever was behind his actions on Saturday, it's a pretty peculiar way of going about trying to fix things. That sofa must've been very uncomfortable last night. If he wants to try apologising sincerely and talk like an adult about what's causing the rift of the past month, you're willing to listen.

[clam]

I know you're not married to him, but there are many similar stories on here by people who are. So, according to the way of the world by people like your partner, maybe the marriage vows should be rewritten to say "I promise to love and cherish you, forsaking all others, unless we have a row and you refuse to do what I say, in which case I can go out and snog/shag other people."

[MadAboutHotChoc]

Re his feelings for you.

Are his actions those of a man who loves his partner?

Actions speak louder than words.

[MadAboutHotChoc]

His actions suggest that he sees you as someone to pay the bills, be the nanny, cook, housekeeper and doormat. He shows zero respect for you and a total lack of care for you.

[SlightlyJaded]

The thing that stands out for me is the fact that you are so convinced that if you asked him to leave for a bit to give you some space, he'd never come back

That says it all really. Deep down you know you are hanging on to him by a thread and that if you dare ask for the relationship to be played on a more equal footing - That will be construed as you rocking the boat a bit too hard, and he'll be off again

Look. OP ending a marriage is MASSIVE and nobody knows you or your H but everything you have said tells us that he is holding all the power and for some reason (I suspect out of love for your DS) you are prepared to take a subservient role on your relationship and follow his rules.

If I asked my DH to leave for a bit to give me space, he wouldn't like it but he'd be desperate to be back with me and the DC so would be trying to come home, not stay away forever. I expect that would be the same in any healthy relationship. The fact that you are so sure he will up and leave for good is not normal.

I'm sorry Owl. Your situation is hard.

[SlightlyJaded]

Sorry. I keep referring to him as your H. I mean P

[MadAboutHotChoc]

The fact that you suspect he will not bother coming back to beg for another chance says a lot to me too. If he really loved you he would be working hard to win you back.

[Owlfright]

Thanks slightly, and everyone else. I am off work today, I've asked him to come and talk to me properly this afternoon.

If the outcome is that I ask him to go for a bit, how do I express that in a way that doesn't mean that I've definitely decided its over? how can I make it clear? Sorry if it sounds like a stupid question, but I'm so used to the thought pattern that if I ask him to go, he can't or won't come back that I can't think if the words. Even if it seems very obvious I would be very grateful for any suggestions.

Also, more importantly how would we explain to DS that Daddy is not here, but may be back? I could tell him Daddy has gone on a trip, but he usually collects DS from school twice this week, so it won't make sense that he's away IYSWIM. I don't think it's right to tell him there's a possibility of us splitting up until we know for sure what is happening?

[Offred]

You need to face up that you can't control him choosing to take you asking for space or standing up for yourself as an excuse to end things and blame you. There is nothing you can say to make him not take it that way if that's what he wants to do.

[Offred]

You basically as I see it can let him pull this relationship apart piece by piece in the way he is doing or you can stop it yourself.

[SlightlyJaded]

I would suggest something like:

I don't want our relationship to end but I need time alone to process what has happened between us. I am hurt by both your actions and your failure to acknowledge the scale of what you have done.

I need to clear my head to think about how i feel about everything and i cant do that with you here - you will cloud my judgement and you have betrayed me and broken the trust. Otherwise we will not be moving forward with a clean slate and the relationship can never be healthy and happy.

Or something

And to DS - anything. It doesn't matter if it's a white lie - Daddy has to work away, visit family, visit an old friend - really anything that protects his feelings. You can worry about tacking it properly if it comes to it.

[MadAboutHotChoc]

Just say something like:

Because your actions show that you do not want to be committed to us, I am asking you to give me time and space to think about what I want to do with my future.

[MadAboutHotChoc]

And if he chooses to take this as a way of leaving you all, there is nothing you can do about this. There is no magic phrase that will make him do the right thing I'm afraid.

[AnyFucker]

Am going to buck the trend here a little. I don't think you are ready to make him leave (yet). The very fact you are asking for the simple way to "word" things is telling...you don't mean it (and won't follow through with conviction) because if you did the words would come easily to you.

You are still stuck in the trap of trying to make him "understand" your POV. If you really were at the end of the road, you would no longer be bothering to wonder if he didn't "get it" simply because you hadn't said it in the "right" way.

My advice to you is to seek counselling for own self to find out why you have such a low bar in what is acceptable in a loving relationship. I would start to disengage from him, stop dancing to his tune and stop trying to make someone understand who never will. I would withdraw my good will and start making a life of my own away from him. I would buy the Patricia Evans book (The Verbally Abusive Man) and Lundy Bancroft (Why Does He Do That)

Have a good think about why you feel so trapped...it is because his actions have made you feel so. And when you do nothing about this latest behaviour of his, he knows he has you even more cowed. Stop worrying about his thought processes and start nurturing your own. You are in independent woman and a great mother.

One day (soon, I hope) you will be in a better frame of mind to put him out of your life. Maybe he has to do something else so awful, because the snog in the pub doesn't appear to be your deal breaker. That day will come though, if you work on yourself and stop trying to work on him

[Owlfright]

Thank you got your insight AF, you are probably right, but I do have flashes of wanting to tell him to just "fuck the fuck off!!" but it's probably because I'm angry and I might regret taking such a huge step (which I guess us what you are suggesting in your post).

I do feel a need to talk this through with him though, I've arranged to talk this afternoon but there is a chance he will act like a petulant teenager and refuse to engage- so we will get nowhere, other than making me exasperated!

Maybe I'm in too much of a hurry to sort this out- I am one if those people who struggles to do things slowly and thoughtfully.

[AnyFucker]

Don't misunderstand me, love. I don't think you would regret telling him to fuck the fuck off (in the long term). I think once you do it (and stick with it) you will wonder why you didn't do it years ago (around the time he fucked off for 6 months would have been ideal, but no matter).

You are still stuck in the cycle of trying to talk to him, despite knowing it is futile. When you properly acknowledge that, and stop trying is the point you need to get to. I don't think you will do it on your own though, some counselling will help you get there ( not couples counselling)

[Owlfright]

Thank you AF, will try to get some counselling alone. Any further advice for getting there if I'm struggling to wait for the time it will take to arrange and attend counselling?!!!!

[dreamingbohemian]

I'm so sorry. I think tbh that he wants out but doesn't want to be the 'bad guy'. You describe him as fun and sort of the life of the party type, that is exactly the guy who does not want the blame for breaking things up.

I have known people like this before, they push and push until finally the other person leaves. Usually what pushes it over the edge is infidelity.

If this is the case, then there is nothing you can really do. There is no magic phrase you can say that will turn him into a good husband. He is already halfway out the door and the only power you have is over how long you are willing to tolerate this process.

I agree with AF, I think you could really benefit from some counseling. What makes your posts so sad, to me, is how much you are sacrificing your own happiness and wellbeing for your family. You deserve to be happy too and treated with love and respect, and I think if you can really believe and accept that then you will see that this man does not deserve you as a partner.