How would you react to this comment? And what (if anything) would you do?

[StaceeJaxx]

Ok I apologise in advance if this long, as I need to set the scene and also give some background so as not to drip feed.

The background is this, I have 2 dds aged 9 and 6 and a grown up DSD aged 20. My mum and dad are divorced and my mum has been with her current partner for 16 years. In the past I have felt some what uncomfortable about my mum's partner around my dds. The way he sometimes conducts himself around them, sometimes the things he says, my instincts are on red alert the whole time he is around them and I only calm down when he's gone. At first when I started to feel this way a few years ago I honestly thought I was overreacting and being over sensitive. I was possibly sexually abused as a child by my uncle, but can't be completely sure. This has made me very careful who I leave my kids alone with, I've only ever trusted a few people with them (DH obviously, my mum, dad and sister). But DH also has felt the same way, and I've recently found DSD has always felt uncomfortable around him, especially when she was younger.

He's very touchy feely with them, picking them up, massaging their shoulders, playing with their hair etc. They don't seem to mind this though, so I feel like I can't say anything when he does it, yet it makes my skin crawl. They both love him, think he's amazing, he's a fountain of knowledge and talks to them both in depth about things they're doing in school. There have been a couple of incidents over the years that have made me very uncomfortable were he has got too touchy feely with them IMO. He also has a tendency to completely ignore when I say they can't do something, and encourage them to do it.

Last year his son moved back home and now lives with them, he's the same age as me. I also get the same kind of feelings of being uncomfortable from him when he's around the kids. Again for the same things, he's very touchy feely, he ignores when I say no, he also gives them both little presents quite a lot and gets into very in depth conversations with them. And again they both love him, so I feel that I can't say or do anything.

As a result I never let my dds sleep over at my mum's (should would love them too, they would love too and I would love them too) apart from the odd occasion when he partner and his son have both been away for the weekend. I also try to always be there to "supervise" whenever my kids are in my mum's. I have never told my mum any of this, because well I have no evidence, and it's not really something you can really say unless you have evidence, I could be being nuts and it would ruin his life. I just tell my mum I find it hard to trust any man that isn't my dad or DH after what happened when I was a kid. She accepts this.

So yesterday we were all in my mum's for Bonfire night. We were having tea and then going to go to the firework display later on. There was a bit of banter going on between DH and my mum (they love winding each other up). Something about my mum saying that women were more mature than men, and DH saying no they weren't and then I said that girls tend to mature faster than boys. Which my mum's partner chipped in with, "Girls don't mature faster than boys intellectually, they do sexually though. I know, I've seen girls of 11, 12 and 13 who are VERY mature sexually." Both DH and I were , I was honestly to stunned say anything. It just went straight over my mum's head, as usual.

Can I ask what you would make of that comment?

I have a friend whose boyfriend gives me similar worries with my DD. She is never, ever allowed to be alone with him, we avoid seeing them as a family and I have made it very clear that his undermining me is unacceptable. This man has all the hallmarks the beginning of grooming behaviour. He undermines you, is befriending your kids, makes small physical moves that are slightly over the comfort zone, but does it in front of you so the kids think it's acceptable. Nip it all in the bud, as quickly and as subtly yet firmly as you can. You have instincts for a reason.

The more I think about this the more uncomfortable I feel for you. If you, dh and dsd all feel uncomfortable about this man he shouldn't be in your home, touching your dcs. Suppose they do feel very uncomfortable too? They will take their lead from you... if you allow him to be around them and to touch them in their own home it must be ok mustn't it? That's exactly how abusers get away with it. People are too discomforted / emabarrassed / polite / unconfident to challenge things.

Thank you all for the replies. I'm glad to see that I'm not overreacting. I thought I'd be told to get a grip (and also hoping people would tell me it was all normal).

Me and DH have been talking in depth both last night and tonight, and we're both on the same page about keeping both of them away from our dds. For a start I'm going to stop going to my mum's with the kids, and invite her here all the time, on her own. I can see it getting more difficult as time goes on though. She's our default babysitter, and I know she would let the kids have contact even if I was to say I didn't want them too. So we've decided to just not have a social life together for the next 10 years or so ha. Not as dramatic as that as DSD could babysit, but we're going to stop using my mum as childcare completely now. We've already talked to the kids about tricky people a few weeks ago when that poor little girl went missing. So we're going to talk again with them tomorrow about tricky people, and saying no, and not letting people touch them, and calling people on it when they're uncomfortable.

I'm starting to look back at things over the years now, and I realise that he has been grooming us. God! You think it's something that could never happen to you, you think you're oh so aware of these things and then bam, it hits you and there's someone close to you who's a fucking perv.

op this is all really difficult. Would you consider getting some (anon) advice from childline / nspcc? Talking to dcs about "tricky" people sounds good, but "step grandad" or whatever his caled and "uncle x" or whatever his son's called by them isn't a "tricky" person in their eyes.... he's someone who's been welcomed into your home and spent a lot of time with them etc etc.

Yes, actually I think I might give NSPCC a call tomorrow for some advice. You're right they wouldn't consider them tricky people because they're "family". Fuck! I just want to come out and say hey kids you know so and so and so and so well they're bad men stay away from them, but obviously can't do that.

0800 1111 for childline

I think you should be very honest with your mother about this too. These children are her flesh and blood, if she was willing to choose him over them, I wouldn't have much more to do with her tbh. Keeping her in the dark about this is the wrong thing imo.

The massaging and playing with their hair is totally and utterly unacceptable. I'm sitting here struggling to think of any comparative stranger (cos let's face it, that's what he is) we know who would do that to my DC in my presence... what a front he has :(

I am erring on the side of speaking to your mother about it too.

It's your call though. No proof of anything, and likely to cause MASSIVE fallout.

OP, always trust your instincts. I had an incident where a strange man made a beeline for my dds and made
Me v uncomfortable ( posted on here at the time). Read 'protecting the gift' by Gavin de Becker - it offers good advice on keeping dcs safe.

I want to be honest with my mum, I want to just come and say it. But I know she will think I'm being ridiculous, I know she will brush it all under the carpet. I also know she'll go back and tell him what I've said. The problem with this is, his family, they are a bunch of hard arse nutters. They're like the mafia, stick together and go after anyone who dares to speak ill of them. I know that makes it sound like something out of Eastenders, but I'd be shit scared of the ramifications. Honestly I just want to take the dds and DH and run as far away as possible.

I was listening to a programme on radio 4 the other day (sorry not sure what it was), and they were saying that over-riding your "no" was a big sign of someone interested in grooming children.
It sounds like you have everything sorted, just keep them out of his (and his sons) way.

Have you asked your DSD in more depth about it? You say she was uncomfortable around him too and is now an adult. I'd have a talk with her next time you and Dh get a chance, she may have more insight for you if he had tried to groom her.

If you can't avoid seeing your Mum when her partner's in tow you have to think of something.

You could try a broadbrush approach, overtly raising the subject of appropriate behaviour, something like,

"Since all that Jimmy Savile business we're teaching the girls only let Mummy and Daddy cuddle and stroke, unless we're right there with them - it's a shame but what can you do" shrug.

Then you have to monitor and see boundaries are kept.

If you get the "Surely they're all right with us" response, answer with "They're so young, we've got to be consistent or they'll forget".

Couldn't get any sleep last night at all. It hit me at about 2am that this is all fucking real. It's actually real, the danger is prominent and right in front of me. Those pervs have had their hands on my babies, hugging them, cuddling them, massaging their shoulders, playing with their hair, giving them shoulder and piggy back rides, cuddling up on the couch to watch programmes with them. Urgh, I feel so sick, that I have felt uncomfortable for years and just not cut them out completely. I'm such a fucking naive silly cow.

There was an incident back when dd2 was 3. I picked her up from nursery and took her back to my mum's for lunch. It was summer and she was wearing a floaty summer dress. She'd been asleep and I'd put her in my mum's bed. My mum's partner came home while dd2 was asleep. She woke up after a while and wondered into the living room, all bleary eyed and looking cute and gorgeous with sleep. There was like a wave of something that went through my mum's partner, he suddenly sat up straight, took notice, and couldn't keep his eyes off dd2. His face changed, he looked (and I realise this makes me sound insane) evil. Like in that film Devil's Advocate (with Keanu Reeves and Al Pacino) were all the people under the devil's influence their faces were contorted and evil looking for a fleeting moment when Charlize Theron looked at them. It was exactly like that. He picked dd2 up and started to tickle her, then playfully threw her on the couch, he them lifted her dress and started to tickle and blow raspberries on her stomach. She only had knickers underneath the dress. To say I was uncomfortable was an understatement! After less than a minute I picked her up to stop him doing it and just said "Oh dd2 shall we get you some lunch." My mum knew that I was uncomfortable with that but she still didn't get it.

I can't believe I've been stupid enough to forget about that. Ever since then both my dds have always worn trousers, or shorts underneath their dresses. I just can't believe how stupid and blind I've been. He's groomed my babies, that fucking evil bastard!

And dd1 she has ASD and isn't tactile at all! She hates kisses and people touching her and and especially touching her hair, she barely lets me do her hair in the morning. Yet she'll sit there and let my mum's partner massage her shoulders, massage her head, play with her hair. WTF! He has groomed them both, he's made sure they don't feel they can say no to him. Oh dear god!

He's never getting anywhere near them ever again. My mum has keys to my house, I'm going to take them back. I don't know yet if I'm going to tell her, but I am going to make big changes so they both don't have access to my dds ever again. It's little things like, the school is 2 miles from my house but only 5 minutes from my mum's. So she is first contact for the school (after me and DH) because she is so close. I have to change this, because they can use this to their advantage. Jesus Christ, going to have to have a major talk with my dds. I still can't believe this danger is real, and actually right there in front of me in my life. Fuck!

On a lighter note, just turned on BBC Breakfast and discovered Obama has won. That at least put a smile on my face.

Oh you sound so panicky. Calm down love, it's ok. Nothing new has happened, except that a lightbulb has come on. You still have no proof that anything that is going to damage your babies has ever happened.

Just take it slowly and use your newfound awareness to make sure it never does. All will be well.

Agree with AF try to remain calm now. You have control now.

My sd used to do the whole massaging shoulders and hair playing and it made my skin crawl. My mum didn't seem to notice, so straight over her head. I dealt with his inappropriate behaviour for years until I got to my teens when I became very angry and defensive if he came near me. It was like I became my own mother to defend myself. He left me alone after that.

At least you have spotted this is inappropriate and are stopping it now.

can i just say that girls of 11 12 and 13 do seem to develop, reach puberty, earlier, surely that is what he meant. an unfortunate choice of the word sexually when you are on alert about him.

but feel free to ignore me and listen to your own instincts.

Reading this thinking what an impossibly difficult situation to be in - spotting grooming, which is by definition subtle, before it has progressed. So SD will say you are over-reacting. I guess this is where the 'it doesn't matter what you think, SD, I am saying you are not to touch them again & that's that'. Even a blood DF/DGF wpuldnt be doing the amount of touching you describe at their age I think. Which is where their habit of undermining you/ ignoring a 'no' comes in so handy - it's all so cleverly done isn't it? Bon courage!

PS with regard to the comment on your OP - if it weren't for all the touchy uncomfortable stuff, it might have been that he meant 'physically' & said 'sexually' - but I would only let that pass if his behaviour around children had always been impeccably respectful - and it would still be worth challenging with 'whaddya mean, sexually?!'

this seems to be an almost textbook description of grooming

Of course you are upset OP, but from what I read you are doing EVERYTHING RIGHT

I think you have the right precautons in place now

I also agree, def speak with your DSD on this, it worries me...

and do speak with NSPCC

I would take one day at a time and tread very carefully, only to mitigate against stress for you and your family

I sadly suspect an issue with your DM might be a brewing, so be brave

good luck, you are not stupid and naiive as you said earlier. you are good mother, your family are lucky to have u

xx

Good luck, OP.

This thread has reassured you that you are NOT over-reacting. I agree that you may have to tell your DM at some point. You will know best how to be sensitive yet firm.

The important thing is that you keep your DDs away from them. You should be very proud (and your DH) that you are taking precautions for your DDs' safety and well-being.

In my opinion, if you feel uncomfortable around this man and you think his actions and comments have been inappropriate, you cannot ignore those feelings.