Is being an avoider a marriage deal breaker?

[mulranno]

Been with my dh for 26 years have 4 kids. He is very mild mannered, intelligent and a devoted (but ineffectual) father. We get on fine when life is rosy but when life is tough his modus operandi (?) is head in the sand, avoider.

I get left to research and make all of the hard complex decisions which leaves me feeing both over loaded and soley responsible which is very pressurizing -- he is still like a teenager when it comes to money, finacial decisions, emotional/educational decisions around the family. He chooses not to get informed so I am unable to sense check anything with him or get any support or direction or feel that anything is a joint decision. He shows no interest in what I am trying to achieve.

On the emotional/health side when I had severe pnd after my 3rd child in 3 years he just chose to spend all of his time out of the home -- he was out 4 nights a week at either football, tennis, committee meetings etc. When he was home (Fri and Sat nights) he drank very heavily, fell asleep and was "not available" as he was just so distant and introverted with major hangovers.

I was left to manage all 3 babies alone night after night which caused me to be really angry. We went to relate as I resented this behaviour but they "framed" it as his way of coping so I forgave him. However we have since had 3 further major crises - another pnd, devastating sudden death of my mother and a most recently a major financial crisis which has endured for 18 months and requires house and schools move to resolve. The last two have tipped me back into depression. Again on all of these crisises he has not "been there" in any capacity. I have had to grieve alone (he was quite flippant about my grief) and have spent the last 18 months sorting overdrafts, loans, remortgages, school appeals, bailing out his company etc with zero interest or support from him. Additionally 2 of our 4 children are very challenging. My teenage son is aggressive and hits me whilst my husband stands by and watches, my daughter is sen also with severe bahavioral issues and her school and emotional health are another demand of my time. I am going thru a major depressive episode at the moment and exhausted. I just feel what is the point. Time and time again he doesnt step up. I feel disrespected and neglected

[Dinnaeknowshitfromclay]

You are doing so well Mulranno. Just keep looking forward to what you want. You are doing brilliantly. You will come out the other side, get better, be able to think straight and become whole again. You are amazing!

[mulranno]

Thank you all for you support - it helps me to realize that I am not irrational and unreasonable.

[MrsSquirrel]

Quite the contrary mulranno, you seem entirely rational and more than reasonable to me.

[Onefewernow]

You are not unreasonable . You have a right to exert what must people consider normal boundaries in your house. And you have a right to be backed up by your H when you do. AND you have a right to expect that he does half of it himself. And not cherry pick.

My own H was much less shitty than yours and there was no violence, but I certainly know what it was like for years to get little help, and undermining re the kids. And that backtracking business about tonight- been there, done that. They squirm to exert authority with them.

In many cases, IMO, the issue is that these sorts of men see their own childhood selves when they look at their kids, and behave accordingly. So they can't say no. Secondly, it is convenient for them and makes for an easy life. And it is a way of punishing you too, but silently, because they get some enjoyment out of the kids anger with you, and their favoured status, especially when you have been rowing about stuff.

I am so glad he is moving out, and I hope it is permanent. Because he is light years away from seeing the problem before him.

I don't think you will "not cope". When this sort of thing was an issue in my house, life was always easier when he was away for work, for sure. The kids get to know what's what and stop acting up.

Even now we have to a large extent resolved our issues with two sets of sessions at Relate, it still makes my life easier with the kids when he is working away for a few weeks on weekdays, as often happens.

[MistAllChuckingFrighty]

OP, you are the only sane and rational one among that shower, seriously.

[Onefewernow]

Amen to that. Mist is right.

[Onefewernow]

Here's another thing-

Expect him to adopt the victim status any time soon. That is how it works. You are the angry mean one, and he is the "victim". This kind of shit gets into your head after a while, so you start to lose confidence whilst remaining angry at the same time. And coping, and coping.

You really do need out, and I'm sure that your depression will start to lift.

[Holdthepage]

mulranno - you are doing the right thing as far as your son is concerned. I have an absolute horror story about some friends & their son. They never sorted him out as a teenager, he is in his 30s now & has served a prison sentence for assaulting his mother.

[mulranno]

I know that the children and others will see it as mad, frustrated, angry, domineering control freak kicks out the quiet, kind, mild mannered husband. But I will not play to that stereo type - I will not bad mouth him and I will be civil - I will just say that we were unable to resolve some issues.

[MistAllChuckingFrighty]

it doesn't matter how others see it

they are not living your life

[Thumbwitch]

Mulranno - I think your H will lose no time in badmouthing YOU all over the place, and mud sticks, sadly, even among people who have known you forever and whom you probably count as friends.

So it's better for you that you have a little more information in your own comments about why you've split; there's taking the high ground and then there's leaving yourself wide open to attack, you need to find a middle road between those.

[mulranno]

Thumbwitch - It will be tricky as it is 100% my decision to separate he would do anything not to - so it will appear one sided - especially as i am a feisty extrovert and he is a gentle introvert. People will also judge me on inflicting a divorce on my children. I think that I will just say something like we were unable to parent as a team which which was more detrimental to our children than living apart.

[Thumbwitch]

I think that's a better option, certainly - irreconcilable differences in parenting techniques!

[cjel]

I'd stay quiet and only tell people you trust anything about your life! A phrase I used to myself again and again was 'quiet dignity'. Let the others a round you get worked up about reasons. If people choose toattack you because your marriage has ended then don't have to have contact with them.

[livingzuid]

mulranno people will always judge and make sweeping ill-bred assumptions based on nothing. Let them. The people who care are the ones who will understand. Cjel is right about the quiet dignity. Do right by your children and you and it will work out in the end. Once the toxic atmosphere is reduced at home it will help your whole family.

I get the relief thing! It's wonderful! Don't feel bad about that. Don't feel bad about any of this. It's the first steps in putting your life back on track.

Sounds naff but time is the best thing. Look how far you've changed things already for the better and in such a short space of time! Hope you are bearing up OK.

[out2lunch]

well done op you have done so so well.keep strong.x

[custardo]

giving my best wishes for tomorrowX

[tribpot]

Sorry mulranno I thought the police were coming to the house - that's why I thought ds might do a runner if he went out last night. Did either he or your husband actually go out?

I think 'we were unable to parent as a team' is a great line - but I don't think many people who know you well will have missed how passive and ineffectual your husband is.

Hope it goes okay today. Shame your MIL can't be arrested for wearing fur whilst she's there

[cjel]

Thinking of you this morningxx

[MistAllChuckingFrighty]

Hope all is well, OP

[mulranno]

Interview was ok - he got a sort of caution - will be on regional police force database but not national as a possible suspect in a crime - will not come up on a standard crb check unless the check requests a deep security vetting. He is still not getting it -- police gave us a bit of a talking to for rowing in earshot of him...so he has taken this to heart and says - no I wont do it again unless you stress me out....he is more terrified about school tomorrow - he didn't want them to know and doesn't want their involvement....but then have promised confidentiality and support.
he says he hates me - I have ruined is life - he wants me out of his life - I stress him out all the time - I have chucked out his Dad etc...I have said that I have done this for him - that his Dad and I are taking a break for 4 weeks after 30 years together and he will be back that my aim is a calm and order house. Which is exactly what my 15 yr old craves - he is a quiet, orderly introvert - who hates noise and chaos.

[mulranno]

he will be back for xmas - and we will decide what happens from there

[cjel]

I don't think you should get into a discussion about your marriage with your son. Some things should be kept between a husband and wife and as such it is none of his business. He is angry with you not because you are not living together , but because his affirmation of his bad behaviour has been taken away. Its like the secret is out and you've shamed him. He can no longer get away with it and you have made sure of that.
He may thinks he hates you now but you have to hang on to the thought that he would have continued to treat people like this the whole of his life and you are protecting them as well.
He can't be happy if he has this anger in him and he will now get the help he needs to become a very successful young man.
You have done a great thing for your family, don't let him bully you any more.xx

[MistAllChuckingFrighty]

agree

[tribpot]

no I wont do it again unless you stress me out

Mmmm yes. Exactly what abusers say. Where is he learning this behaviour?

The answer to that is, you won't do it ever again, full stop. Violence is a crime and you will be punished for it. I am not to blame for your violence, it is on you and you alone.

I know you've been forced to accept a 4 week separation but all that does is (a) kick the can down the road and (b) make you the Parent Who Ruined Christmas Forever by letting him back in and then kicking him back out again. And in your desire to avoid that happening, you will end up letting him back and staying.

Don't be browbeaten - by either of them, mulranno. Bloody well done for going through with it today.