Is being an avoider a marriage deal breaker?

[mulranno]

Been with my dh for 26 years have 4 kids. He is very mild mannered, intelligent and a devoted (but ineffectual) father. We get on fine when life is rosy but when life is tough his modus operandi (?) is head in the sand, avoider.

I get left to research and make all of the hard complex decisions which leaves me feeing both over loaded and soley responsible which is very pressurizing -- he is still like a teenager when it comes to money, finacial decisions, emotional/educational decisions around the family. He chooses not to get informed so I am unable to sense check anything with him or get any support or direction or feel that anything is a joint decision. He shows no interest in what I am trying to achieve.

On the emotional/health side when I had severe pnd after my 3rd child in 3 years he just chose to spend all of his time out of the home -- he was out 4 nights a week at either football, tennis, committee meetings etc. When he was home (Fri and Sat nights) he drank very heavily, fell asleep and was "not available" as he was just so distant and introverted with major hangovers.

I was left to manage all 3 babies alone night after night which caused me to be really angry. We went to relate as I resented this behaviour but they "framed" it as his way of coping so I forgave him. However we have since had 3 further major crises - another pnd, devastating sudden death of my mother and a most recently a major financial crisis which has endured for 18 months and requires house and schools move to resolve. The last two have tipped me back into depression. Again on all of these crisises he has not "been there" in any capacity. I have had to grieve alone (he was quite flippant about my grief) and have spent the last 18 months sorting overdrafts, loans, remortgages, school appeals, bailing out his company etc with zero interest or support from him. Additionally 2 of our 4 children are very challenging. My teenage son is aggressive and hits me whilst my husband stands by and watches, my daughter is sen also with severe bahavioral issues and her school and emotional health are another demand of my time. I am going thru a major depressive episode at the moment and exhausted. I just feel what is the point. Time and time again he doesnt step up. I feel disrespected and neglected

[Twinklestein]

The way your son is going he's going to end up with a criminal record for punching someone, it's just a question of who.

If you report him to police, and he's not come to their attention before, they may just give him a talking to if you do not want to pursue the charges. (You can ask that first when you call them).

I doubt your son will think he 'caused' your marriage to break up. It's clear that there are problems in your relationship, he knows that.

[ribba]

OP I really suggest posting about your son in teenagers - there are lots of great women there who have dealt with violent teenage children and you'll get good advice. Calling the police will not give your son a criminal record .

[MistAllChuckingFrighty]

OP, have a look down this list of ten main types of abusive personality (ref. Lundy Bancroft. "Why Does he do that, Inside the minds of Angry and Controlling Men")

here

[TalkativeJim]

OP, I think you need to go to the police because I think that to be able to stop this terribly destructive path your son is on, you need to get your H out of the house. And I think the only way to do that is to go to the domestic violence unit and get their advice.

I can't really see what immediate 'use' SS or CAMHS would be - they would be able to start working with your son, but the problem is the home situation, and particularly the fact that your husband is there essentially providing a subtly abusive, warped climate of acceptibility for your son's violence.

I think that getting your husband removed might be all the shock your son needs to start turning this around.

I don't think you will find yourself leaping into a court case against your son. I think it's more likely that the domestic violence officer might help you start a case for an occupation order against your H.

Talk to the police and WA.

[TalkativeJim]

OP I also think that most of all, you have to stop thinking of it in terms of 'opening a can of worms' - etc. The can of worms is the household you have now. Nothing can be worse for your son than this. In the long term, your son being in custody would be better than this. At least at that point he is starting out on the road back to acceptable behaviour. Whereas here, every minute that passes that he sits in your house, triumphant yet also utterly panicked and deeply confused, totally at sea with the way in which the rules seem to have disappeared and he can no longer look to his parents for guidance...well, every minute like that puts him further and further along the wrong path.

[MistAllChuckingFrighty]

Great posts, TJ

[mulranno]

I have called the police. I have an appt with them on Monday at 8am. they are coming to me and will decide when/how to approach my son after that meeting.

[MistAllChuckingFrighty]

Well done. That must have been so hard. Will you tell your H before then ?

[tribpot]

I'm glad, OP. It will be a hard conversation but the alternative is harder.

[cjel]

So sorry you've had to do that Mulranno, How are you?x

[mulranno]

Devastated by all of it. I told my husband that I planned to report my son. But I have not told him that I have since done it. I don't actually trust him to not tell my son. Its Fri 8 am not Mon 8 am.

All my husband wants to talk about now is not separating -- he cant believe that it has come to this. He still cannot account for how he behaved on the day of the attack, how he did not help me, support me and said nothing to our son - and even said that he didn't see anything.

He said he was just in panic mode.

Now that our family and friends are aware of what has happened and my intentions to divorce him - his best friend has since spoken with him and he has now 15 days after the attack to put in a consequence for my son. My son is now "grounded" until he writes a letter of apology to me.

This I believe is to save his own skin - not because he gives a shit about me or in fact DV, or our son.

[MistAllChuckingFrighty]

I think your summing up is entirely correct

[tribpot]

If his behaviour on the day had been completely out of character, his story of blind panic might ring a little truer. But in reality this was exactly the same behaviour as he has exhibited for years. Head down, take care of number 1, take no responsibility, deny, deny, deny.

He reaps as he sows.

[Thumbwitch]

Wow mulranno - I have posted on your other thread about your crisis leading to divorce, I guess this is it then!

I can see that your friends are sitting back and waiting to see if it IS bad enough for you to progress to divorce - but I can't believe they aren't being more supportive in general for the crisis that has precipitated it! You need new friends. And a new husband. And some people around you how actually care enough about you to want to help and support you rather than let you do it all yourself.

(((hugs))) - you're having a rough time at the moment.

[summer68]

I've just read through your thread- I have absolute sympathy Similar situation to mine-my husband only supported me and finally punished our ds when I packed my bags and said I was leaving. I know he still doesn't believe me when I retell the incident.It really hurts and I hold a resentment in my heart. You sound like a strong woman believe in your own decisions. I hope the police help to deal with your ds violence and maybe your dh might begin to understand how it is not ok for your ds to hit you- but don't bank on it! I wish you lots of strength x

[peggyundercrackers]

you NEED to do something about your son - thats absolutely appalling he his hitting you and his siblings - unfortunately its not uncommon though in other familys for the same thing to happen. This happened in my extended family, cousin/aunt, the only way it stopped is someone else in the family battered fuck out of her had words.

Please do something about it and don't listen to your GP friend, the behaviour will only escalate and get worse - if you don't stop it how far will it go before it gets serious and someone is hurt beyond a bruise or needing a plaster.

[cjel]

I'm sure that you do feel devastated, Its really hard to realise that the people you love don't think bout you the way you think about them, I'm so glad that its out in the open now and not some horrid secret.

I hope you can gather around you some lovely people who do care about you and will take care of you in the way you deserve.xx

[TalkativeJim]

Well done OP.

Ignore your sqealing little coward of a husband. He thinks only of himself - as ever. He has no desire at all to lose his chief cook, bottle washer, and bum-wiper!

You can do this, and you will be happier afterwards, and so will your son.

Refuse to discuss anything at all with either of them might be a good tactic until after the police have visited.

[ImperialBlether]

I would never ever condone violence against you, but the atmosphere of the house sounds really awful and your son sounds desperately unhappy. I know he's behaving really badly. I know it's awful. I just wonder whether he has any other outlet, whether anyone is talking to him or listening to him.

When you said you were on ADs I thought that if you and your husband separated your depression would miraculously lift. You seemed to think you were bi polar at one point but then you said you were off your meds; what do the doctors think caused the depression?

How old is your daughter? How does she get along with your oldest son most of the time? Is she scared of him?

What are the family dynamics like usually? Is there a lot of shouting? Is there any laughter at all? Any times when everyone's getting along well?

[mulranno]

ImperialBlether - I had a major depressive episode this time last year that was the first post of this thread. I then revived this thread this week when the recent incidents happened. I have successfully got thru that depressive episode and have been off ADs since May. During my 2 weeks off work due to the episode last year I spend a lot of time self diagnosing online and thought BP2 rung true - hence the ref in my post from last year. I saw a psychiatrist every 2 months from Nov to May and he discounted BP2 - but diagnosed a deep depression triggered by a series of major left events.

I do have a lot of sympathy for my son, he is very quiet, introverted and emotionally sensitive. He is in GCSE year at a very demanding grammar school and is feeling the pressure of school. I think that I will call his school for support.

There is a lot of anger in our home. Our 3rd child has sen and behavioral problems - she is very volatile, aggressive and abusive to all her siblings (especially my oldest son) and us. We have been seeing a psychologist with her since Feb and she has recently been accepted by CAMHS.

There is a lot of stress in the family - we both work v demanding full time jobs and the kids have v busy lives. I live with seething resentment of my husband who runs around picking up after the kids all the time, not putting in boundaries or consequences and I feel over loaded - doing my half of the parenting, and his and then another level when he unpicks what I do to be mates with his kids. So I feel I am doing triple parenting against the tide of 4 kids alongside one maverick parent on their side.

My husband is quiet, intelligent, gentle and kind (not to me!)...he does not have a sense of humour and has never made me laugh. I am from a large funny family and I try everyday to bring laughter into the home. My husband, oldest son and sen daughter - dont get it. My other son and daughter are in fits.

[mulranno]

I have called the school today as well to let them know what is going on. They were very supportive and have a clear approach - this is not uncommon apparently. I feel relieved that I have taken some action with the police and school - I feel less burdened somehow. It will now take on a life of its own. I have not told my husband what I have done. In some ways I would like him to sit in on the police interview and school interview just to make him to learn something or at least squirm - but maybe I am above that? what should I do?

[MistAllChuckingFrighty]

He's a parent too, isn't he ?

He should be there

[IrishBloodEnglishHeart]

Ideally he would be with you at both. He needs to hear what the police have to say. My heart goes out to you OP, my DH hovers on the fringes of avoidance behaviour. I can entirely see why it would drive you to rage and depression.

[mulranno]

My 15 year old gave me an unprompted sideways apology just now after nearly 3 weeks. He refused to give me any eye contact or to communicate further when I asked if he would never do it again and said that I was deliberately winding him up and provoking him - and why was I not able to accept his apology.

I suspect it is because my husband after 15 days (Tuesday) put in a consequence that he was grounded until he wrote a letter of apology - and my son is thinking about going out tomorrow night. Even though he hasnt done what my husband asked.

I am worried now that the police and school follow up with him which will now happen after his apology will escalate everything. But is a one word, no eye contact, apology (or even a letter) a sufficient consequence for his action. Am I still justified not to cancel the police and school meetings?

[hellsbellsmelons]

Continue with the police and school meeting.
The school can help your son.
My DD school helped her and after a GP appointment with me she was referred to CAHMS and she has a wonder counsellor now who really helps her.
It could be the making of him.

And the word you need to look up for your 'D'H is 'Fuckwit'!!

Really well done - keep going and keep strong and don't back down.
You won't have to 'press charges' against your son. They will probably just have a word with him and give him a bit of a fright.

Start to look into the practicalities of leaving as well.
CAB and a solicitor.
Good luck!!!