We can't seem to talk about money, I have no idea what's going on with our money, and he just can't talk abut it

[wheresmyslippers]

Hi, I post now and then and I'm going to try and not give out too much detail so I don't out myself.

I seem to be having some money troubles in my marrage. Sorry this is long!

Myself and my husband both worked full time untill we had a baby. I then took maternity leave, and then left my job after doing the three months needed to keep my maternity money. We did this as we both agreed we didn't want to use childcare. He remains in full time work. We have a joint account that we pay all the bills etc from. Anything left was then our own money, and this joint account remains.

While raising our child I have also worked from home running my own busness. I saved up some money before I went in leave so I could continue to pay into the bills account and pay my way while on maternity, and once I left work.

I still pay into the bills account, it's not much but it's something, and I also pay myself a small allowance from the money I make from my small business. I don't take any money from my husband for myself. I have just managed to cover this from my business, I don't make any extra money or save any money.

My husband pays everything else, including all the bills and the mortgage. Any money left from his wage is then for him to pay for work related expenses such as lunch and petrol, and of course his own monthly allowance. Without going into facts and figures he gets around 3 x as much money as me to spend on himself, once he has paid for work related expenses.

My husband also has a sideline business which he uses to pay into the joint account too. This money is what mostly covers what I don't pay in anymore. I don't have any sight of this account, but I understand that we only take half the profit from this account every month to cover what I don't earn anymore. It also covers the difference in our mortgage when we moved house after I had left work, but we did agree this is where the extra money would come from.

Recently my husband has been worried about money, and he finds it hard to talk about it though. He sometimes tells me that he can't keep taking money from his sideline business to cover what I don't pay, and asks when I will make enough money to pay what I should be into the joint account again. I have explained how hard it is to work and raise a child, and that I need our child to be in school before I can earn proper money again.

He has also said that he has been taking extra money for himself from the sideline business, and he can't keep doing this anymore. He says this is to pay for things that the house needs, that I want. But I don't ask for anything, I even buy all our child's clothes and pay for his pre school fees.

Recently we were given some money by his family, and I made a spreadsheet to manage what we spent it on. This is what we have actually used for house things, and when I tot it up we have spent a third of the money. But he has told me that there is only a tenth of it left. He refuses to help me go through the spreahsheet and workout where it has gone, says he feels anxious about it and its like I am accusing him of wasting money.

I don't know how to get a handle on things. I am super carefull with my money and spend very little, my husband does buy himself nice things, but he always seems to need them for work or something.

I only have sight of my own account and the joint. I can't see his, or the sideline business account.

He makes me feel worried about bringing up money with him, to the extent that when the tumble drier recently broke I was very worried about telling him and his reaction.

He also makes me feel bad for not working a full time job anymore, and that it's my fault we can't eat out as much as we used to or have everything we want. It makes me feel a bit worthless really. I think this is made worse when he buys himself something nice and fancy, and has nice lunches out, and I'm living on very little (although we have a lovely home with nice things like a new kitchen, so that makes it hard to feel hard done by). He seems to have more of a go at me for not earning much when I manage to save enough of my allowance to go out for dinner with my friends, which is rare, like I shouldn't have enough for these things as I don't earn as much as him, or that if I can afford things like that then I should pay more into the joint account so he can keep more in his sideline business, or have more spare money himself.

What can I do? Is our setup normal? How do other married couples with kids balance the books together? It's all starting to get me down and I feel we need to get it sorted. I'm just looking for some sympathy and good advice please.

Reading that back that's a massive post, so thanks for reading!

IMO he is hiding something, or why else would he be acting so bizarre?? Its like he is trying to throw you off the scent of something. I also have a small business that I run from home with the help of DH, I freelance a few days a month and we also have a small child. My husband also has a day job and makes 3 times more than I do. Slightly similar to you. Our financial system is we have 2 bank accounts, one joint and one for our business. The joint account is his pay and my freelancing work pay, which all the money for bills and our spending money comes from, we both have equal access and I can at anytime go into it and see what has been spent and how much is left, and we both spend from this to cover birthdays, all day to day stuff... the business account is where all the money that our business goes into and it basically pays for itself. Pretty straightforward. Hope your chat goes well, I would really want to get to the bottom of this if I were you!! Good luck!

Do you want more children?

wheremyslippers, was the decision not to use childcare and your giving up a ft job one that was arrived at mutually?

If you say he makes you feel bad for not working a ft job, is it realistic (bearing in mind the cost of childcare and logistics) for you to have continued in a ft job? Do you think he is just throwing up excuses on this front or is he genuinely miffed about this?

A baby brings huge additional costs into a marriage. It does not sound like he wants to give up the luxuries of life so that you don't work ft. On one hand, he needs to grow up. On the other hand, he must value you as a family not using childcare enough to accept that he has to cut corners spending-wise. It is not fair to throw the main breadwinner burden on one parent just so one spouse can be mostly at home - both parents must be on the same footing as to this being something of value enough to justify the fall in standard of living.

Tbh, if my dh was as controlling or secretive about money as your dh is (whatever his reason), I would make darn sure I keep my ft job.

whereismyslippers

Im not sure if i have any chance of seeing his bank account, he doesnt want me to see

That is The crux of the problem, isn't it. Is there no way you can get access to them. A spreadsheet is meaningless. Totally and utterly meaningless. [hsad]

Expat, i really dont know if i want more children. I dont want more children right now, and I would be too worried about the effect it would have on our marriage.

Blueshoes, the decision for me to quit my job was mutual, I could have afforded child care and actually earned more than he did when I quit. We agreed that we would manage on his wage, the money he makes from his sideline business and any money I could make freelance. We agreed that if times got tough we would cash in investments to get by. At the time I think we both did see our child not going into childcare as high value enough to take the drop in standard of living (or rather to justify taking money from the sideline business which would normally not be used for monthly bills).

I think he hoped I would make more money freelance than I do. Sometimes I think he thinks I make more money than I do and im spending it willy nilly, but I showed him all my last year accounts (well he requested to see them for our mortgage company) and they showed that I have exactly what I tell him I have.

Cahoots, I have no way to access his bank account info. I would not want to look if it was not with his agreement. I can see the joint account, my personal account and my business account.

He cant see my personal or business account. But as I said, he knows how little I spend and has seen my last year accounts. That's all the money I have.

I would just like to add, that in addition to the freelance / small business money you add to the pot, you also add the full time nursery fees that you would otherwise be paying if you were not doing childcare.

You need your dh to understand that if you were working full time, £X would be spent on childcare fees. And £X should therefore be considered what you add to the pot by doing the child care yourself. To amalgamate this, you could call a couple of of local nursery and ask what their full time fees would be.

I am confused why your dh has this attitude to money. Is there something in his family or background which might explain it?

All it sounds to me is that he is hiding something from you. You are putting yourself in a vulnerable position if you don't take steps to shore up your position financially. That can either be putting more effort into your freelance business or going back to ft employment, since that is a possibility.

A man with your dh's attitude to money is a dealbreaker for me. I hope the expression 'tight with money, tight with affection' does not apply. You have to look out for yourself and your baby. I would monitor this situation further and look for improvements or at least some explanation in his behaviour.

NotQuint, nursery fees are only payable for a few years. But in that time, wheresmy would have built up seniority in her job which could lead to more flexibility in the longer term. I would not take the short term view as to cost of nursery fees. It is an investment for the long term, so long as it is do-able in the short term.

Well you are right in that, but it is difficult blueshoes, because the seniority and career progression is hard to quantify moneywise, but nursery fees are tangible and easy to pin down. The career progression and seniority OP already discounted herself, when they agreed she should stay home, so it might be a bit late to add that to the discussion. If they are sticking purely at the financial side, the nursery fees she is saving them by staying at home is a good start.

If career progression and seniority is brought up, then then a case could be made for her returning to work pronto. Maybe this is the solution?

The.importnat,thing.is.that.this.man.is.treating.you.as.his.inferior.
He.controls.his.own.access.to,money.AND.yours,but.you.are.not'allowed'to.get.a.celar.picture.of.the.finances.
UI.think.for.all.his.whining.he.doesn't.want.you.to.work.because.he.considers.himself.your.owner.and.that.he.is.the.main.earner.so.has.to.be.obeyed.

blueshoes, im not sure where this attitude comes from really, I think its just slowly developed since I have stopped working full time.

Financially I am in a very vulnerable position, our child is nearly three though, so has started at pre school play group a few mornings a week so that is helping me grow my business. I will also get my free place in january so can up our childs hours without eating into my business profit anymore.

My husband has made it clear though that as soon as I start earning more money I have to put more money in the joint so he can stop taking money from his business to cover my loss of earnings. So I wont get any more money for me or our child. He likes to save up the money from his business, rather than us spend it.

Also, I was in a senior position in my full time job and could have gone back just three days. But we agreed that this was not what we wanted as it would have meant our child going to nursery which is what we were trying to avoid. Sometimes I do wish I had kept my job but my husband always says I did the right thing bringing our child up myself. Confusing!

He is not tight with affection, and except for this money issue is a lovely husband.

notquaint, for me to return to work full time I would need to use a nursery to provide wrap around care for pre school. This is not something myself or my husband want to do.

What's yours is ours and what's mine is mine seems to sum up your dhs view on money from what you have said.

We think people think as we do and act as we would. Which explains why he insisted that you were misleading him about how much you were earning and demanded to see your accounts.

You can access bank statements with a couple of clicks these days, if he wanted you to see them then he would do. Whether he's been saving the money in an off shore bank account or spending it on lottery tickets or online prostitutes or drugs or even putting it away for dcs university education is irrelevant. It is family money and therefore you deserve to know where it is going and to have a say in where it is spent.

I'd seriously consider going back to work, especially if you can get 3 days if you don't want dc in full time nursery. My ds goes 3 days a week and loves it! In your situation I don't think the unproven 'risks' of nursery on child development are as big a worry as you being left high and dry by your dhs possible financial mismanagement. Best wishes

Why are you paying for childcare? It's not your expense, it's both!

My dh and I have one bank account. When we were both working, it all went in there. When we had children, his earnings + CB + any occasional days work I did (teacher) went in. Now his wages + CB + my teeny wages + my DLA goes in there. We pay mortgage, bills, everything from that account. We bank with Smile (Internet) and both have access to the account and our visa card statement.

If he won't let you see his statements, he's hiding something. Possibly a big something!

I would agree with disembodied.

Unless your dh's attitude to money improves rather than get worse (which has been the trend since you stopped working ft), the small risk of using pt childcare is a drop in the ocean compared to the real risk of your being more and more financially marooned.

It gets worse the longer you stay out of paid work, unless you are confident your freelance business will pick up and provided you are able/willing to put the effort into it.

Securing the financial future of you and your baby is also caring for your child, but in a different way. A child needs both.

Your child is already 3. I don't even see any real risk to pt childcare in a nursery, only benefits at that age. You can always see how dc adapts. Honestly, lots of children much younger go to childcare with no issues. I personally think it is a bit of a luxury to be concerned about the effect of childcare in your circumstances.

It sounds very worrying. Either he's hiding something, like a gambling habit or his business is failing, or it's financial abuse and he likes to control you.

It's ridiculous that you're scraping around while he treats himself to nice things.

You need to be able to see the finances - you're married, fgs.

It's generally an indicator of a bad attitude when the man is spending lots on treats for himself while making his partner spend all her money on childcare and household necessities.

If he insists that you must put more into the pot when you work, that is your ideal time to say that you wont, unless you get to see ALL of the bank statements for the last 3 years.

If he wont show you then you wont pay in anymore, and STICK TO IT.

Sorry, submitted too soon.

I meant to say that it is simply unacceptable for him to say that you must blindly accept what he says and pay in what he says you should, without proof of your full financial situation.

You will not get to the bottom of your dh's financial position if he does not want you to know. Showing bank statements does not prove anything.

He can always funnel income/expenses into a separate account that you don't know about, if he was determined to hide something.

The question is whether you trust him enough to give you the full picture. Otherwise, it is foolish to let him take control of the finances and blindside you.

You were earning more than him when you left work. You should try to get back into that position.

I cannot see how your dh can otherwise be lovely and yet so evasive when it comes to finances. Something does not compute ... trust your instincts ... the goal posts have changed to make him behave like this. From your posts, it sounds like you are quite keen not to have to revisit the childcare issue but I do believe you have to rethink your stance with respect to work and childcare.

At least just talk about it with your dh and see if that results in an improvement/relaxation in his attitude.

Not sure if this helps and it's a bit of a ramble, but does he realise the 'cost' and 'payment/investment' you have made in terms of keeping the house running while he works and bringing up your/his child? What you are contributing is beyond price and it can't really be translated into pounds/pence. Money in a relationships has to be about trusting each other and recognising/appreciating what each person is bringing to the party - otherwise the rots sets in. I have always earned a lot less than DH but spent many years bringing up kids alone with him working abroad etc. I reckon I did my share and it was tough - I didn't put much money into the pot. My commiserations to you. Some men seem to see everything in monetary terms. They also don't realise what hard work it is bringing up kids etc etc. Bottom line - valuing each other is more than about money and I don't feel he is valuing you enough. Could he be using the money for something he doesn't want you to know about - otherwise wouldn't he be more open about sharing info with you?
Good luck with it all.

Hey everyone, been thinking a lot about this today, and It's hard to know what to do. I wish we had more money over all, so that he didn't have to feel so uptight about money.

I have written some things down, about where money comes in and goes out, so when we next chat about money I have the facts and figures to hand in a nice easy to understand (and not fob me off with excuses) way.

Sometimes I would just like to bury my head in the sand and not mention money ever again, just to make things easy.

To answer a few questions; I have been out of work for two years now nearly, so can't go back t my old job with the three days a week offer. That opportunity has gone. I could put my son in childcare, but I would prefer to just up his hours at pre school and work part time so I'm still here for him somewhat.

I think there is an element of financial abuse, or more rather punishing me for not working and having a lovely time at home with our child, rather than working hard like he does.

wheres, your last sentence "I think there is an element of financial abuse, or more rather punishing me for not working and having a lovely time at home with our child, rather than working hard like he does."

How about you up your hours and he reduces his so that the division of labour is fairer and both of you get a chance to have some 'lovely time at home'.

Hard for everyone this sort of thing. We did it by first having equal divs into a joint account for bills and when our life style changed all my money goes into the joint account, my spends go from that and that means we have full visibility of money (her p/t money is about the same as my spends...)

You need to be able to see where all the money is going.

As it happens DW manages most of the money, as she spends most (she chases insurance deals and orders the online shopping)

I think blueshoes's idea is a nice one but wonder if he would actually be happier spending more time at home. He might just be one of those grumpy anxious people. My partner is like this at the moment- tends to find life very stressful wherever he is and whatever he's doing. Whereas I tend to enjoy whatever I'm doing, all things being equal. If I'm off with the kids he is jealous because he feels he has been working hard all day (usually true) and I have had a nice day with the kids (usually true). If he is off with the kids he is jealous because he feels I have had a nice day at work (usually true) while he has struggled all day with the kids (usually true). I've realised it's a big mistake trying to tweak my choices (such as they are) to try and make him happier as it won't work. I can't control for his anxiety and grumpiness. He is appalling at discussing anything important like money as well - he doesn't want to think about difficult stuff as it makes him ill with anxiety. This means we fail to budget together and it all goes pear shaped quite regularly, which again makes him beside himself with panic. I tend to join in the panicking at that point! But in many ways our work arrangements (both ft) have had little to do with anything. Though if you need more money coming in overall, I do think it might be a good plan to consider getting back to work.