How do you know for sure that you should leave?

[Apty]

Relationships are full of good and bad. What do you do when you are confused about the balance and how bad it really is?

My instincts tell me to leave sometimes, and then at other times that seems like the worst thing to do.

Do you reach a point when you know?

[tiredofwaitingforitalltochange]

But on the other hand, it seems cruel to stay together, when I have to admit the most obvious reason I have for keeping him is so he can look after the DDs while I pursue my own interests in the evenings/weekends.

I know.

I have lived a more and more separate life from dh. But in doing so I have separated myself more from my dds and you are doing the same. Are you missing out on them because you don't want to be around dh and find the family unit oppressive/stultifying?

Beware. When you have a baby or a toddler everyone tells you to make the most of it because the time will pass so quickly. And then it does, and you can hardly believe it. My elder one is 12 and suddenly no longer a little girl. My sweet, sunny baby sulks, has hissy fits and rolls her eyes at me. Where did she go?

It sounds awful but apart from all the big, important reasons to stay with dh (keeping the family unit together, not being totally crippled financially) I like you have looked at the 'benefits' of having a partner who does the supermarket run, changes the bedsheets, mows the grass etc. Of course I would do all these things if he didn't, but I don't wish I had to do them. And he brings me a cup of tea in bed every morning. Heartbreakingly he has carried on doing this since we agreed to separate, which was completely against his wishes.

My feelings are too mixed up to want to see him with someone else yet

But I kind of hope that if I looked into a crystal ball I could see him happy in the future with someone who really loves him in the way I feel unable to.

For myself, I have no desire to replace him with another partner, I just want to be free to be my own person.

[tiredofwaitingforitalltochange]

And Apty I know exactly what you mean when you talk about looking at your dh and seeing him in an unguarded moment looking really sad. It is heartbreaking.

There seem to be a lot of us in this situation. It's not dramatic, is it? No affairs, no dv, no secret phones, facebooking of exes, gambling. Just slowly withering away and shrinking in dead relationships and hating ourselves for wanting and needing to escape when it feels like no-one else wants us to. Whose life is it anyway? I feel everyone on here is moral and decent and that's the problem in many ways. It's so hard to bring yourself to discard someone. It sounds self indulgent but I can hardly bear it for dh that I'm rejecting him. I want to write to my MIL because I love her but I don't know what to say. I feel so awful for not wanting her son and how hurtful it must be :(

Every time I start feeling excited about my new life on my own I feel massive guilt and that it's wrong and immoral to feel excited.

Early start tomorrow so off to bed now.

[justoverit]

Wow, how timely. I've been thinking about this very dilemma tonight and came on here to see if anyone had a relevant thread. Sorry, i don't have much advice but I do really identify.

I'm in counselling and its helping to get my thoughts together somewhat but on a daily, sometimes hourly basis I swing between - it's ok, let 's make a go of it, he's not that bad, and "I hate him and my life with him and want to leave". We have 2 young dc and he has depression and a drinking problem, though he's currently in recovery. He is a complex and difficult man who can be very loving but is very selfish and has clocked up such bad behaviour over the years we've been together. Now that he's sober more stable and being a better dad I just can't stop thinking about all the shitty things he's done and said to me over the years and how terribly selfish he was when the kids were babies.

I hate that it's just whlrling round my head all the time and every time we argue I go straight to thinking of separating. But i'm financially dependent on him too, and have trouble picturing myself actually leaving and living on my own with the dc. Anyway i'm going to bed now but will keep on the thread tomorrow. Good luck to all of you going through similar times..

[MrsJohnMurphy]

Wow tired, so much of what you write rings a massive bell with me. I told Dp I wanted to separate 2 nights ago, we have been here a couple of times before, but usually the yawning chasm of alone-hood makes me capitulate and submit to his utter refusal to accept that I actually mean it .

His behaviour over the last 2 days has nailed the lid on the coffin though, I told him I wanted to split, I got up the next morning and he avoided me for the whole of the next day, fair enough I thought, he is hurt and wants time to process so kept out of his way.

The next day, he woke me up with breakfast I was very cool with him, because I know from experience any sign of civility is seen by him as a "oh yay she didn't mean it, back to normality, I can give her the occasional hug and cup of tea and live again in my little no worries bubble".

He tried little advances all through the day, without you know actually talking to me. He then announced he was off to bed, I then broke and asked him why the fuck had he not even mentioned my comments.

He said, "oh you said you wanted to split the other night, so I was in a really bad mood with you" I mean WTAF?

I explained that yes I actually do want to split, he then said that he would look for somewhere to live and that the children will suffer. Oh not before saying that I hate him, which I don't, he spent a lot of time staring at the carpet and not a lot of time talking to me, which is basically the whole reason why I want to split.

Grrrrrr

[tiredofwaitingforitalltochange]

justoverit I can identify with the trajectory of your marriage breakdown. My dh was very absorbed in work troubles when dc were small.

He was good with them but grumpy and critical with me. I was lonely in a big house in a new town where I knew no one. I railed at him to change. Warned him countless times that he was destroying things. I asked for counselling with him. Nothing changed and he refused counselling. Things changed when my unhappiness progressed to saying I wanted a divorce.

He has tried really hard to change and mostly succeeded. But it is too late. I have been a cow to him in recent years. He blames THIS for the marriage breakdown while of course I see things differently. I've found it so hard to forgive him for as I see it trashing things and destroying the love I felt for him.

I didn't want things to end up like this. I feel heartbroken that the marriage has 'failed'. But because I have instigated it I have to carry the can.

[ThistlePetal]

Went to relationship counselling today. After listening again to all the ways my DH says he is going to change "because this is what Thistle wants", and both me and the counsellor saying "but that is not what Thistle says she needs from this relationship, and you need to change for yourself, and only if you really want to", I finally said that I think we should move on and start planning our separation.

Having said the words out loud, and having witnessed his reaction (understandably upset, wondering aloud how to move all his stuff out, and how to tell the kids), I now feel even more racked with guilt. And for the first time in a couple of weeks, I am also starting to question whether I'm doing the right thing. The counsellor has suggested we go away and discuss whether to separate or give our relationship more time. We all acknowledged that I am still not feeling a "spark". And I said (again) that I can't believe he'd want to be with someone who didn't feel a spark for him :(. I do feel very sorry for him.

That said, I still can't see me being happy within our marriage. I can't imagine having fun with him, or him taking back any responsibility for anything in our relationship (which is my biggest issue with him). I still think the way we are with each other right now is damaging for our DCs to witness.

So what do I do? Not really looking for answers, just a bit of empathy!

MrsJohn, like yours, my DH would love to sweep all this under the carpet and pretend that everything is normal. So I feel I can't even be civil to him without it being misconstrued as everything being suddenly ok again.

Tiredof, like you say, I am currently being a cow to DH. And he WILL blame our marriage breakdown on this, not the years of emotional and physical absence on his part. I too feel it is too late to save this marriage, but I know the responsibility for ending it will fall to me anyway, as everything else has.

Comfy, hope you get some assurance and clarity from this thread - I know I have.

[Athendof]

Thistle, I am not going to say that I'm sorry things have come down to this, as this may be the beginning of a happier life. But just wanted to share something some one told me that may help to ease your guilt.

Some one told me that "love" was like a garden, in order for it to grow and flourish, it needs to be taken care of, somebody has to tend to it in order for it to be ok. But as a garden... there is no point in watering it once the plants are already dead.

I believe the "spark" is nothing else but "admiration' for the other person, once the admiration is gone, it is very hard to recover even if they end up doing what you thought it needed to be done. Sometimes is simply too late.

He had his chance, he blew it, you started moving on long time ago, he didn't pay attention to the signs or act to change things. He might be surprised and hurt, but I am sure it is not as if he had not had thousands of any warnings.

[tiredofwaitingforitalltochange]

Tiredof, like you say, I am currently being a cow to DH. And he WILL blame our marriage breakdown on this, not the years of emotional and physical absence on his part. I too feel it is too late to save this marriage, but I know the responsibility for ending it will fall to me anyway, as everything else has.

I don't think you will ever be able to change his mind either. He sounds like my dh - an ostrich. I have ranted and raved at dh trying to get him to accept some responsibility. I've tried to bargain with him, saying I will take 50% of the blame if so will he.

It's pointless. It will never work and my only option is to try not to care.

Had a horrible conversation with dh about money tonight. He let our estate agent (who's a c* and couldn't care less) talk him into lowering our asking price for the family home. The asking price is now at what we actually need to achieve. It doesn't take a genius to work out that lower asking price = lower offers. I'm really pissed off that he did this without discussing it with me because I think he's shafted us.

I've been postponing moving out and taking the plunge but I need to do it now. It's time to move things on.

[Shellywelly1973]

God,reading this thread is so weird...

I've been thinking about splitting up with dp for about 3 yrs on&off.

I read the posts on here&it makes me realise dp does nothing for me. Its my house, financially Im not dependant on him. I was a single parent for 10 years before i met him,13 years ago.

We have 3dc. He is an absolutely crap dad. He only engages with youngest ds.

He's not abusive,violent or a cheater. He's emotionally with drawn,not supportive in any respect. Almost totally indifferent to me realise&dc...

Its time to live again&i no its time he went. He'll never understand me,never really has but i need to live not lurch from day to day...

[Athendof]

Tired, is the house on both your names?? if so ask your h to call the state agent tomorrow to keep the price back at what it was, and tell him you have not authorised the reduction on price, even if he gets a lower offer, you cannot be forced to sign (unless he takes you to court, and even so... it is unlikely)

[hersuit]

God, so much of this thread is resonating very loudly. The indecision, the terrible guilt...I've never said out loud that I think we should separate but I know in my heart it's the truth and I'm devastated about it.

I feel so sad for him, that lovely, lovely man who works so hard to take care of me and keep me happy. He's an incredible person and my best friend and I will always love him but I'm certain our sexual relationship is over for good.

I think he would carry on forever this way but I can't do that to him. He deserves to be loved properly. I don't want it for me either.

This is shit, isn't it? It's really not the easy way out. I've felt this way for at least 5 years, and no amount of wishing we were still happy together or even working at our relationship, counselling, whatever has changed that fact.

And yet I think I just can't do this to my family- I worry so much about DS1, he's very sensitive and will be heart broken if we separate :(

I wonder if maybe I've made my bed & should lie in it/ that I'll be letting a lot of people down/ that our parents will be upset/ that I'm a failure for not being able to make it work...Seems like an awful lot of waves to make just because I'm not all that happy.

[Athendof]

Oh people! I really feel sad at reading your messages as it reminds me of the situation that I was in for 8 of the 10 years my marriage lasted.

The truth is, you will never know if splitting/staying is the right decision, even after years of happiness after the split, you may find yourself wondering if things would have been different if only... (fill the blank).

Yes, life after divorce is not particularly easy, especially if you have taken the decision to stop working to care for the family. But is doable. Yes, children get upset and take some time to adjust to the situation but they do adjust and in most occasions they grow up happier away of the daily grind of resentment that stems from staying in an unhappy marriage out of duty, guilt, financial fears, responsibility or even a spirit of self sacrifice. Really, my son is much better of living with separated parents than he was seeing us so fed up with each other all the time.

And contrary to what many may think, if you are going to split anyway, the sooner the better, children find it easier to cope with divorce the younger they are.

I remember my last years as a married woman and even with all the challenges that being a lone parent brings, the difference is enormous, I look years younger, I have dreams, I have a lot of financial problems but I still have no regrets as my life is not perfect but there is HOPE. This little word brings all the significance to my life, after spending 8 years taking one day at a time. Simply, I was dead inside, now I am pretty much alive and looking forward to whatever fate throws at me.

Have a I found a better man? well, it depends what a "better man" means. Admittedly my ex was handsome, intelligent, rich, a good friendm and an extrovert who commanded a lot of respect. But, I was not happy with him. I knew I was not going to find anyone like him, but instead I found someone who wasn't like him but who has made me laugh non stop for over three years and who has been a father to my son in a way his dad never was. My ex, is now happy with another woman maybe thinking the same as I do: Why on Earth did we wait so long?

One thing that you get to know after divorce is that nothing is permanent. It may be that things change and I end up again on my own, but frankly, I much rather be sitting on my own by the seaside writing my memories with a Margarita in hand at 80, than waiting for someone to die to be free.

Life is short and we are not here to waste it.

[MrsJohnMurphy]

It's really really hard to split up with someone who doesn't want to be split up with , I feel like I'm back to square one after a nice day choosing dd's birthday present. No air has been cleared, no resolutions reached, dp obviously thinks that the state of the relationship is a-ok .

Honestly what Woman on earth, after her dp telling her that they wanted to leave would not actually bother to ask why? I'm guessing very few. Then proceed to take any signs of communication and co-parenting from said dp as signs that they can 100% ignore everything they have said.

I am trapped, frigging trapped unless I find it in myself to actually leave.

[Athendof]

That's the thing mrsjohn, nobody wants to be the 'executor' who puts anc end to the marriage, i talked for years about divorce without my ex acknowledging what I was saying. He just said 'we are not doing bad', i just needed not to carry the responsibility of the split and so he didn't. At the end is all about courage, you need a lot if it to take the plunge,

If you are going to leave, build on your independancc and leave when you are ready, if you are going to stay, take the steps to make things better, what is not an option is to stay in the middle feeling miserable about the marriage.

If it helps. Many divorced women will agree that it was far more difficult to take the decision to leave than dealing with the consequences of it.

[jojoanna]

MrsJohnMurphy I have wanted my DH to leave for years and he never will.

Just sits depressed saying ever day he's going to die soon, hates his job etc etc. I told him to give up drinking and now he says I have taken his only pleasure away.

I spend all my life on eggshells in case I say the wrong thing.

I do my own thing a lot. Went on holiday with girlfriends see people socially without him. Saves me worrying if he's drinking and chatting women up.

Unless I find it in myself to leave I live in a house with a man who does the shopping and mows the lawn.

[tiredofwaitingforitalltochange]

Athendof the house is in his name only.

I don't think he realised what a daft strategy it was lowering the price. We haven't had a lot of viewings and the agent persuaded him that it would generate more interest. But realistically, you don't lower your price to attract a higher offer do you?

The offer we've turned down looks like a good one relative to our present asking price. I would never have done this without talking to him first. I can't believe how stupid it is.

He's in bad shape financially with the recession and may soon be out of a job. I will start earning in two years. A house has been bought for me, but I won't earn a lot at first. He's going to give me a lump sum to tide me over. Last night he said I might after that have to sell my house and use the money to live on or 'give him some money' if he is unable to pay maintenance. He doesn't seem to grasp that it has to be a clean break and I don't want him trying to get me to sell the house later on if he's not working. I don't want to make it a home and get settled there with dc if I won't be able to stay.

I need a solicitor, don't I? :(

[Athendof]

Yes, you really need a solicitor and quick, you really need to establish ASAP that you are separated (if you are) because if you buy a new house before that happens, the new house will be counted as a marital asset not yours only.

I would think the only way you can prevent him from selling the house before the divorce is also for it to be clear that you are already separated (he cannot simply dispose of marital assets without your agreement).

Why don't you ask the agent to ring the people who put the offer you rejected to ring them again to say you are accepting? if they are still looking perhaps that is the most cost effective way out.

I understand that lowering the price may leave you both in a more vulnerable position, but, if the house sells quicker it may turn the cheaper option in the long run.

You really need to move quick, if he is unemployed you may end up worse off, than if you divorce while he has a job. Maintenance doesn't come into the equation as he has to pay what he has to pay, but if he is in bad shape he can make a claim on the value of your new house.

[Apty]

athendof that's a really useful post about your life now and not wasting life being unhappy. I suppose it's so hard because none of us can quite believe that life the other side will really be any happier - and for some of us I suppose we're worrying that it will actually be harder. It's a big risk to take isn't it.

Jojoanna you sound like me! I've come to seriously believe that doing the shopping and mowing the lawn is some indespensable thing that I should be hugely grateful for. I'm only just realising that I can do all that, I'd swap the cooking and the lawn mowing for some support or understanding - and without it, I think I'd rather do those things by myself.

I'm very scared that I've done the wrong thing, but I know I won't really know for a while, I have to give myself a chance. I think that the pressure of coping with his depression and unpredictability / coldness / moods will show me what I can be like and if life is easier and I feel stronger and braver.

[deleted203]

I knew the time had come to split with my ex-husband when it occurred to me after 13 years together that if someone had told me we would still be together in 30 years time that I would slit my wrists that night.....it's always horrible to make that decision - I dithered for years for sake of kids, despite ex being a nightmare to live with. He was moody, unsupportive, critical, but I was terrified of being lonely, struggling financially, effect on the children and all the other 101 things we fear. But you DO cope with divorce. I won't say it's easy, it's bloody tough at times, but 14 years down the line I am settled, happy and re-married to a wonderful man. Good luck to all who are struggling, hope life gets better.

[tiredofwaitingforitalltochange]

if you buy a new house before that happens, the new house will be counted as a marital asset not yours only.

It's too late. A house has been bought already. It's in my sole name. I haven't moved in yet.

On a brighter note, the people who'd offered on the family home upped their offer today and we have accepted.

I honestly don't think dh will shaft me because he wants the kids to be OK and they need a home with me as well as with him. Maybe that's naive. I will get a half hour free with a solicitor anyway.

[suburbophobe]

I'm sometimes very lonely or sad or worried, but at other times I'm happy

Well said. I think this is part of the human condition.

I think expecting someone else to make you happy in life, you never will be. Because you are just projecting your expectations onto that person, and of course it's a 2-way street...

I just prefer being single (at least each having our own place...).

[ThistlePetal]

Athendof, thanks for sharing your experiences, and I like the garden analogy, very true. Sowornout, good to hear from someone else who has successfully come out the other side, thank you too.

I am feeling less angry and under pressure today - up to yesterday I was sure I wanted to separate immediately and my biggest fear was that I wouldn't be able to keep a lid on it until DS' birthday at the end of the month. Don't know if I'm just feeling worn out with it all, or whether I'm thinking I still need to try to make one final effort within our marriage..... But the thought of that still feels me with dread. Maybe 3 months, but i can't imagine 3 years. Maybe I'm just feeling sorry and guilty for DH. And maybe I'm just not feeling so trapped today because he isn't here!

Suburb, that's an interesting point re happiness. I have been wondering today if I'm projecting my unhappiness on to him and he's just a convenient scapegoat. But I have been doing lots of work on myself and my self esteem, and have made great leaps and bounds in many ways, so it would seem odd that I'm doing that more now than before.... And on the flip side, he doesn't seem to have any great expectations of happiness, he would be happy just to have me in the marriage. I do wish his expectations were higher, I might have something to aspire to?

So for now I'm going to reflect a bit more, do a bit more research on finances, benefits etc, and bide my time. My emotions are all over the place yet again.

Hugs and good luck to you all. I'll be reading how you're all getting on. And probably posting soon with a competent different set of thoughts....

[ThistlePetal]

Tiredof, well done on selling the house - onwards for you now :)

[tiredofwaitingforitalltochange]

Thanks Thistle. I feel sad as well. It's the end of an era and the start of a new, uncertain future.

This is shit, isn't it? It's really not the easy way out. I've felt this way for at least 5 years, and no amount of wishing we were still happy together or even working at our relationship, counselling, whatever has changed that fact.

This sums it up for me.

I can see how I can move on, but I don't think I will ever lose the regret I feel that we haven't managed to make things work. Dh and I have these two amazing children together and no one else can ever share that. We both love them dearly. It's such a shame we can't love each other and be a happy family. I think we do love each other, but not in a way that works for us.

I heard a Christmas tune on the telly today and thought 'fuck, what the hell's going to happen at Christmas?'

It suddenly feels cold and autumnal as well, and that just adds to the general feeling of melancholy :(

[Athendof]

Good to hear the house is sold. My advice, Talk to the solicitor with the info on hand about the equity of both if they were to be sold, take info about his and your income too, and about any other asset either of you have. And ask the solicitor what would you be likely to get if things get nasty, if the difference is not much, i would advice to take whatever your husband is offering now and run with it. Don't tell him about your visit to the solicitor, if he is being generous you really want to keep him that way. And remember, the thing that you have to protect the most after the split is not whatever assets that may belong to each of you but the Good will and the communication channels, as if you keep in good terms, life after divorce is substantially easier: You need to keep the communication flowing in order to be able to co parent effectively after divorce.