I think I have ruined everything...but I am so off the mark? (long!)

[MCT76]

Hi everyone,

I haven't posted much but I do linger around the forums and I would much appreciate some advice right now.

Firstly, a brief description of my situation: I've been married for just over a year, together for 5 (ttc for over a year without success) and I adore my husband beyond words. I know he adores me too and he works really hard for us and our future doing long hours in a highly-pressurised job and studying every day for his accountacy qualification. On top of that, he is a wonderful, thoughtful, warm, loving and incredible person...I usually pinch myself thinking how lucky I really am that someone like him is with me.

Long story short: his best friend is staying for the weekend (he lives in London while we are in the South East so we don't see him very often). My husband used to be a very heavy drinker and although he drinks moderately now, he has a tendency towards bingeing at certain special occasions which I know is considered normal in the UK but not so where I come from (I am South American). Besides, I had treatment for an illness a while ago which meant that I was unable to drink for over 1 year (I drink very little now as it could damage my health given my medical history) and we are trying for a baby which makes me even more sensitive and aware of the fact that drinking heavily is not advisable. Also, I've just gone freelance and managed to get my first commission for a big project which I need to work on flat out all weekend.

Yesterday evening, between dh and his friend (although dh was drinking at twice the speed his friend was) they downed 4 bottles of wine and a few beers. It made for uncomfortable viewing for me and I went to bed determined to not let it affect me but I needed a good night sleep and as they were drunk, they were playing music really loudly and shouting. I asked them once to turn it down which they did for 10 seconds but then it was back on for another couple of hours or so. This morning, I was fuming...and it all came out in the worst possible way...I said that I did not like to see him binge drinking like that and that it affected me as I couldn't sleep well. He went ballistic and talked to me in such a threatening and aggressive way that I was a bit scared that it might get out of hand. He stormed off cursing and insulting me and although we have exchanged a few text messages since then, he is still livid and thinks MY behaviour was disgusting.

He thinks it's normal to get completely legless with his friend now and again...I hate myself for bringing it up knowing he would go berserk but somehow I couldn't help it as I am very expressive and he got it out of me in the end. He has now gone off with his friend saying he is very angry and dissapointed in me...I am hurt, confused, angry and remorseful, all at the same time.

Do you think I am wrong in thinking that that sort of excessive drinking is out of order or should I just accept it as an occasional 'treat' and as part and parcel of his culture?

Thank you and sorry for the very long post...

[buzzsore]

I don't think you should accept the aggressive and threatening behaviour that made you feel frightened. That is the bit you should focus on, imo, and the fact that you apparently try not to confront him about behaviour you don't like because 'he'll go berserk'. That you're modifying your behaviour to avoid outbursts and that he's capable of frightening you and then turning it round to being your fault for daring not to like being kept awake - these are red flags, big ones.

The drinking to me is a side-issue. (However, I don't think it's something you should put up with or is an essential part of British culture, cos our drinking culture when it's bingeing etc is one of our failings.)

[PhilipJFry]

You haven't ruined anything. Please read through what you wrote again- can you really see anything in your behaviour that would warrant the way your husband talked to you? There isn't any, because his response to you trying to talk about the previous night was unacceptable.

He made you feel threatened, insulted you and lost his temper to the extent that you were afraid it could turn into something worse. This is incredibly worrying. And after doing all of this it's YOU who has been made to feel sorry and out of line. For wanting to sleep? For asking to turn the music down? For bringing up something that upset you?

I'm sorry but your husband has done a number on you and made sure to make it so you feel like you are to blame. I'm not surprised you feel confused when he's twisted things to make you feel as if you were in the wrong. It's manipulative behaviour

"I hate myself for bringing it up knowing he would go berserk but somehow I couldn't help it as I am very expressive and he got it out of me in the end. "

From this it seems as if this has happened before. Please don't lose sight of the fact that you are not in the wrong here and are not to blame for his reaction.

[Curiousmama]

Can't see what you've done wrong chick. Sounds to me like it's all good because you walk on eggshells?

do you have many real life friends over here? I hope you have a support network. We're here too though

Please open your eyes. He's ok when his boat isn't rocked.

[MCT76]

Thank you so much for your replies. This has been an isue in the past. Drinking is a big bone of contention between us and yes, it's true that he doesn't do it very often but whenever there is what he perceives as a perfect excuse (birthdays, Christmas, holidays, etc), he knows no bounds and that sort of behaviour really upsets me.
I have explained to him how it makes me feel but he doesn't understand what the big deal is and gets extremely defensive and nasty about it as if bingeing is the only possible way in which to have a 'good time with his friends', as he puts it.
Part of me wants to accept all the blame (as I have already done) so that we can move on but the other part is still angry with him as I don't think I deserved the level of aggro that I got. He punched the table so hard, I though it was going to break (he's done similar things before with walls and other objects). He is unable to have any type of conversation about anything to do wih alcohol without flying off the handle which is a worry sometimes.

I don't have friends in the area, only good acquaintances (who I wouldn't dream of discussing my marital problems with) so your support means a lot to me.

I will try to get on with my work and I hope this time apart will also help him to reflect upon the things he said to me.

Thanks again for your kind and thoughtful words...

Paula :)

[HerHissyness]

He was inconsiderate, he was ill mannered, silly and then rude, aggressive and intimidating.

He has no right to any of that, how dare he! Most men would be mortified to have made that much of an idiot of themselves! You need to get all latina on his backside tbh!

If you don't stop him thinking he is entitled to behave like this and treat you like this, it will only get worse.

TBH, perhaps it's just as well you don't have DC with this man, perhaps his alcohol consumption is pertinent here, as it does decrease fertility.

If he carries on like this, and doesn't see where he's in the wrong, it could, and probably will happen again, and again. It may also be that he becomes more manipulative, more controlling over time. Many women find that their partners are abusive only when they get PG.

You need to really have a close and very honest look at the power balance in your relationship, if you are not 100% equal, you need to address that, or consider the option that perhaps it's best if you reconsider your relationship, what you are getting out of it, and how well you are being treated.

[HerHissyness]

x-post.

I am now worried for you Paula.

Dunno which South American country you come from, but I used to live in Brazil and am fluent in Portuguese (though your english is awesome!) I'm in the South - Hampshire if that's of any help...

I think his relationship with alcohol is very unhealthy at best. at worst, this guy will go on to verbally abuse and possibly worse, when drunk, and even getting drunk as an excuse to be nasty.

I'm not saying "leave the bastard" but I am saying open your eyes, be really honest with yourself and look at the lay of the land. Your situation really worries me. Please don't take any of the blame for this. That will destroy your spirit and self esteem.

[Curiousmama]

Am glad you're getting support on here Paula. Keep posting chick xx

[Curiousmama]

Have to agree, if English is your second language then WOW

[TheProvincialLady]

If you accept all the blame you can't 'move on' - you can only stay stuck in this exact same position, forever.

Punching things is another red flag I'm afraid. This man really does not sound the perfect catch you describe him as. He is lucky to have you, not the other way round.

[ImperialBlether]

I wouldn't like to live with someone who got so angry over something like that. It's interesting he was drinking a lot more than his friend, but using his friend being there as a 'reason' for binge drinking. Two bottles of wine per person is a hell of a lot, plus beers, and you say he drank more than his fair share.

His reaction was awful. Most people are apologetic the next day, wondering how they could have drunk so much, etc etc. His violence (for that's what it was) isn't normal. Think about it - his reaction to being told to quieten down a bit and to avoid drinking far, far too much is to be violent.

I don't think he's as nice as you say, OP. What would he be like if you did have a child together? What would he be like if he didn't get enough sleep? What would he do about drinking when you had the baby? Can you imagine him 'wetting the baby's head' with a crate of wine and then screaming at you?

[lazarusb]

What was his friend doing when this argument happened?
Your Dh was wrong to behave the way he did. Last night he acted like a teenager refusing to turn his music down and showed you no respect at all. This morning it sounds like he provoked you into an argument to give him an excuse to storm off for the day.
Binge drinking is not part of British culture either, some people do it but most of us don't!
You are not 'lucky' to have him. He should be counting his blessings.

[ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow]

The drinking is not the issue here, Paula.

The issue is that he permits himself to insult, rage at, and physically intimidate you, and then blame YOU for it.

Please, please consider putting your TTCing on hold until you can be sure that you are in a relationship where you are always treated with basic respect, even in times of tension and anger.

I was struck by the bit in your OP where you idealise him and say that "I usually pinch myself thinking how lucky I really am that someone like him is with me". If you don't feel that YOU are a catch, then you are leaving yourself wide open to a relationship with someone who needs a person to dominate. You are already walking on eggshells, accepting insults and intimidation, and accepting blame for rocking the boat. So many red flags there.

Please believe that you deserve better than this treatment. Because you do.

[MCT76]

Thanks everyone...It's been the weekend from hell so far and it's not looking like it will be getting much better. After a good few hours of separation and many apologetic texts from me and several defiant and angry respones from him, he asked me to join him and his friend in a pub. I had decided that being downtrodden and taking all the blame was not the smartest way of addressing this which completely threw him off as he was expecting me to grovel no end and to tell him that he was absolutely right in every possible way. When that didn't happen, it led to another argument (this time non aggressive but quite disturbing all the same) where basically, he questioned our relationship going forward and even though he said his feelings for me hasn't changed, he kept stressing the fact that I needed to show him that I accepted him. It felt like I was being put on trial and I said so and he kept going on about how he couldn't believe my actions and how appaling they had been.
We came to a truce of sorts as his friend was waiting in the wings and we needed to go for dinner. Everything seemed to be getting better but to make matters more poignant than they already were, his friend had brought along the video he'd filmed on our wedding day which we'd never seen before. Watching it was joyful and painful at once...to hear our vows and the speeches where our love and devotion for one another was palpable for everyone to see was almost to much to bear. When we finished watching it, I asked him if he still felt that way and his response was so lukewarm and insincere that it felt as if my heart was being trampled on.
We kept talking about it (by this point, he'd drank a whole bottle of wine by himself while we were watching the video which I felt was an act of defiance to show me that he was not going to alter his behaviour) and he said to me that this had 'broken new barriers' for him and that things would change in some ways...He believes that he's not had enough separation from me socially and that from now on, whenever he sees his friend it will be on his own (which invariably will involve heavy drinking although he was at pains to point out that it wouldn't be necessarily the case). I have always seen my friends separately from him and to me, there is nothing wrong with that at all...what upset me is the defiant tone that he used and the complete lack of warmth and affection in his demeanour.
I somehow feel that the spell has been broken and I am uncertain as to whether we can truly move on from this and regain a sense of normality. I feel that his devotion for me will never be the same again and I wonder where to go from here.
Thank you for your support...it's meant a great deal when I most needed it.

[cjbartlett]

He's a heavy drinker
He needs to give up completely it sounds like

[lazarusb]

To me it sounds like he is telling you that you are stifling him and he won't put with it (I don't agree from you've told us). But it does look as though your eyes have been opened. You are now questioning whether your relationship can continue. Again, I think you should put ttc on hold.
If I was you I would question what you are REALLY getting from this relationship. Stop telling yourself you are lucky to have him. The fact he couldn't/wouldn't tell you he felt the same way as he did on your wedding day and you felt crushed says an awful lot

[Curiousmama]

So sorry it's turning out this way. I hope you'll be ok? Please confide in someone in RL though you need support. Here's a hug for now {{{hug]]] x

[buzzsore]

Oh right, so if you question his behaviour or fail to accept the whole blame for the argument, he blackmails you with the threat of the relationship ending and his feelings for you changing forever? His "love" is very fragile and conditional, isn't it? Not much like love at all, in fact. It rests completely on you giving in to him, putting up with unacceptable behaviour and being grateful for it.

[HerHissyness]

I don't like the kind of veiled threats this guy is using. I'll drink to oblivion, and you have to put up with it... or I'll reconsider our relationship.

WTF!??

How about shoe on other foot?

You stop drinking to oblivion and I don't have to look up the numbers/support groups for Al-Anon.

Or, how about you stop pickling yourself and perhaps we might have a crack at having sex again a family?

[HerHissyness]

oh and stop blooming apologising to him!

(((hugs)))

[empirestateofmind]

It is not just you who needs to be careful when ttc. Alcohol can reduce sperm count and quality.

However are you sure that having a baby with your DH is a good idea at the moment?

[garlicbutter]

"This is how I am. Like it or piss off."
How I am = controlling, angry, selfish, drunk, unyielding.

I am so very sorry; it seems he misrepresented himself to you when you married. You must feel like you've been kicked in the stomach. How are you fixed for supportive friends in real-life? Can you talk to your family & friends back home? If there isn't anybody over here, it would be worth getting yourself a counsellor, I think, just to talk and work things out.

I wish you a calm, pleasant Sunday (as far as possible.) Be kind to yourself.

[Lifeinlalaland]

I can understand if he would prefer to go out with friends seperately and drink then, and it sounds like you are fine with that.

What is disturbing here is his apparant lack of respect for your feelings and his threatening behaviour. Now you have stood your ground he is making emotional threats to you, making you feel like the relationship is really damaged. Would he be doing this if you took 100% of the blame and really grovelled to him? Seems unlikely from your posts. It sounds like all is rosey so long as he gets his own way.

What you described with his friend was not your fault. One of the things that really stood out to me is that you have a big project you need to work on and he has put his drinking above that, not just by getting hammered and disturbing your sleep all night but by continuing with drama over the whole incident, thus distracting you even more from your work.

Why is he not being more supportive? Why did he not go out to drink with his friend and give youi some peace and quiet if he knew what an important weekend this was for you?

It sounds very unfair to me.

Hope you are managing to get some work done today. I'm really sorry he is being such an arse :-(.

[AnnieLobeseder]

He wants you to take all the blame for him acting like an arse, and is threatening you with ending the relationship if you don't act the way he wants you to?

I'd be packing his bags, tbh. I just don't see him having any respect for you, and in my eyes, a relationship can't work without mutual respect.

[HerHissyness]

I think AnnieLobesder's suggestion is the best, the most direct and surefired way of getting respect back.

It's a win/win situation, if you shock him into behaving, job done. If he stays gone and keeps binge drinking, then at least he's not disturbing you dear Paula. Tell him to choose! The piss up or his marriage.

[tb]

Hi Paula,

One thing I've noticed right at the beginning of the thread is that you've just gone freelance and that your 'd'h is training to be an accountant.

I took a training contract with a firm to train as a chartered accountant at 34 and found the pressure to go drinking on a Friday night after work very high. I wasn't high and mighty about it, it was just that I'd been married 13 years, and preferred to be at home with dh rather than be in a bar, under pressure to get ratted with a load of 21-year olds. By the age of 34, there were very few people I knew and trusted enough to be drunk with, even if I'd wanted to. Also when I was made redundant the year before we'd lost 60% of our income, so money was rather tight.

So, the heavy drinking is part of the profession, to some extent. It also happened on away residential courses - I can remember one nightmare night when there were a crowd of drunken lads outside the door trying to force it open.

However, one really outstanding thing I've noticed in all this, is that he doesn't feel any sense of guilt or remorse about endangering your first big commission. That alone, seems extremely childish.

As you are freelance, and he is the only one with a permanent job, I'd be inclined to postpone ttc until he's finished his exams due to the stress. The other worry is that with CIPFA, ACCA and ACA (don't know many CIMA's) there can often be redundancies after qualification as practices/firms get rid of newly-quals and recruit cheaper new graduate cannon-fodder. So, in 2-3 years you could end up with a toddler, and an out of work dh that is pissing up a wall all your hard-earned cash.

Nothing excuses his agression btw, have you thought of contacting al-anon?

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.