I think I have ruined everything...but I am so off the mark? (long!)

[MCT76]

Hi everyone,

I haven't posted much but I do linger around the forums and I would much appreciate some advice right now.

Firstly, a brief description of my situation: I've been married for just over a year, together for 5 (ttc for over a year without success) and I adore my husband beyond words. I know he adores me too and he works really hard for us and our future doing long hours in a highly-pressurised job and studying every day for his accountacy qualification. On top of that, he is a wonderful, thoughtful, warm, loving and incredible person...I usually pinch myself thinking how lucky I really am that someone like him is with me.

Long story short: his best friend is staying for the weekend (he lives in London while we are in the South East so we don't see him very often). My husband used to be a very heavy drinker and although he drinks moderately now, he has a tendency towards bingeing at certain special occasions which I know is considered normal in the UK but not so where I come from (I am South American). Besides, I had treatment for an illness a while ago which meant that I was unable to drink for over 1 year (I drink very little now as it could damage my health given my medical history) and we are trying for a baby which makes me even more sensitive and aware of the fact that drinking heavily is not advisable. Also, I've just gone freelance and managed to get my first commission for a big project which I need to work on flat out all weekend.

Yesterday evening, between dh and his friend (although dh was drinking at twice the speed his friend was) they downed 4 bottles of wine and a few beers. It made for uncomfortable viewing for me and I went to bed determined to not let it affect me but I needed a good night sleep and as they were drunk, they were playing music really loudly and shouting. I asked them once to turn it down which they did for 10 seconds but then it was back on for another couple of hours or so. This morning, I was fuming...and it all came out in the worst possible way...I said that I did not like to see him binge drinking like that and that it affected me as I couldn't sleep well. He went ballistic and talked to me in such a threatening and aggressive way that I was a bit scared that it might get out of hand. He stormed off cursing and insulting me and although we have exchanged a few text messages since then, he is still livid and thinks MY behaviour was disgusting.

He thinks it's normal to get completely legless with his friend now and again...I hate myself for bringing it up knowing he would go berserk but somehow I couldn't help it as I am very expressive and he got it out of me in the end. He has now gone off with his friend saying he is very angry and dissapointed in me...I am hurt, confused, angry and remorseful, all at the same time.

Do you think I am wrong in thinking that that sort of excessive drinking is out of order or should I just accept it as an occasional 'treat' and as part and parcel of his culture?

Thank you and sorry for the very long post...

[ItsMeAndMyPuppyNow]

Paula, I'm sorry but I too am going to rain on your parade.

I think you are putting a chipper face on things because you don't want to question your marriage, and you don't want to put off TTCing because it is a goal that is too dear to your heart.

He is a threatening and manipulative man. And it gets him what he wants. He has no incentive to change: you're going along with it. Is this the father you want for your children? The relationship model you want them to witness and absorb?

[northernruth]

I agree that the drinking is not the issue here, it's his behaviour around it.

He's entitled to drink what he wants when he wants tbh. As a wife you don't control him and it's not up to you how he behaves with his friends. You are entitled to an opinion on it tho and to express it without fear of him "going berserk"

He's not entitled to disturb you in your shared house nor is he entitled to be abusive to you if you call him out on his behaviour.

TBH he does sound so defensive about his drinking that I would suspect he has a problem. I would have gone ballistic with my DH if he drank so much when we were ttc (and I was off the sauce for months at a time).

You need a serious discussion when he is sober and his friend isn't here. Don't let him make you feel it's your fault, but try to avoid discussing the drinking - rather discuss the behaviour around it.

[confidence]

Do you think I am wrong in thinking that that sort of excessive drinking is out of order or should I just accept it as an occasional 'treat' and as part and parcel of his culture?

I think there are at least three separate issues that were all rather mixed up together in your original post:

1. He got extremely drunk. He likes to get extremely drunk occasionally.
   

1. He played his music loud and ruined your night's sleep, which you needed.
   

1. He was extremely aggressive towards you when you raised it the following day.
   

I think to make any sense of these issues you really need to look at them separately, not together.

1. I don't see anything wrong with getting drunk - even extremely drunk - occasionally. It's fun, it enhances companionship in the kind of situation he was in, and if it really is only occasional then it's not damaging to health. I honestly can't see why you would have any right to tell him he can't do it. If you don't like seeing it, then maybe try not to be around when he does it. But really, the fact of being married to someone doesn't give you the right to determine how they go about relaxing and having a good time, if they're doing it legally and without causing harm to others. I'd certainly tell my partner exactly where to go if they suddenly took it on themselves to start telling me I'm not "allowed" to have some alcohol-fuelled fun now and then. Particularly if I were working and studying my arse off like him and occasionally needed to go over the edge a bit to unwind.
   

If this bothers you so much, I'm surprised it wasn't discussed before you got married. Did you know then that he liked to get drunk now and then? Did he know you disapproved?

1. Not keeping the music down when you'd said it was ruining your sleep was absolutely unacceptable. Even if people are going to get pissed and have fun, they need to be able to do it while being considerate to others living with them. It is actually possible. OTOH when people are pissed they do tend to forget and overlook things. Could you maybe have gone and told him again, more forcefully? It might be good if you could discuss this as a purely practical issue, without it being tied up in general disapproval of him getting drunk, which is not really fair and is likely to make him defensive.
   

1. You need to be able to raise issues like (2) above openly and honestly, without being attacked for them. If he was excessively aggressive towards you for it, that's unacceptable too, and you need to make that clear. Like I said though, his aggression was likely part defensiveness, because he perceived you as attacking his general right to have a drink and a good time. If you had focused it more on the purely practical issue of respecting your right to sleep, he may have reacted differently.
   

Anyway I'm glad your discussions have been positive and I hope it turns out well.

[babyhammock]

You questioned him...how dare you
He then punishes you for it and not only makes you feel like you're in the wrong but threatens to withdraw his affection knowing you absolutely adore him. Very cruel IMO.

He eventually talks 'normally' with you and you're just relieved he still loves you.
This is what my ex did to me time and time again. I should have been the one pissed off yet I was the one aplogising and feeling greatful that he was still in my life...

I agree with the others and think he's played you like a kipper...sorry

Please be careful x

[ThereGoesTheFear]

Good God, Paula, I know it must have really shaken you to have had to question whether he is the man you married, but please please don't be so quick to say it's all OK.
I can't get past the threats:

1. Punching a table hard (this was designed to scare you)
   
2. The veiled threat to your 'togetherness' in his lukewarm response.
   

Reading your posts has given me knots in my stomach. Please, as others have said, see a counsellor to get things clear in your own head. And just for now, put TTC on hold.

[ImperialBlether]

You had to work that weekend so needed a bit of peace

He was drinking too heavily
He was playing music too loudly
He was angry when you asked him to turn the music down
He turned it down for ten seconds, then turned it back up
He was aggressive
He scared you
He insulted you
He said your behaviour was disgusting

You apologised

Think about it!

[Curiousmama]

Well done him I say. He sounds very manipulative. Good luck I feel you'll need it.

[Xales]

So you are never allowed to talk to him in anger? Even when he is being a selfish dick?

He went ballistic and talked to me in such a threatening and aggressive way that I was a bit scared that it might get out of hand. He stormed off cursing and insulting me and although we have exchanged a few text messages since then, he is still livid and thinks MY behaviour was disgusting.

He has now gone off with his friend saying he is very angry and dissapointed in me

Excessive drinking is not out of order at all. I imagine a vast majority of us do it given the chance.

What is out of order is his threatening, aggressive reaction.

Unless you are very careful then you will change yourself to be what he expects of you while he does nothing and end up an empty shell.

[discrete]

Hi Paula,

I'm SouthAm too and I don't get the British drinking thing either. They seem tp have a Jekyll and Hyde thing going down with alcohol which is fairly incomprehensible to a non-drinker.

OTOH, sometimes I behave towards dh in front of other people in ways he finds mortifying - it's no big deal to me, but he feels humiliated (and acts accordingly.

Dh and I have now been together for 20 years, and we have both had to change considerably. He no longer drinks, as it happens, but even when he did he had learnt that alcohol was not an excuse for unacceptable behaviour.

I had to learn to not say in a temper things I did not mean and expect them to be forgotten because I was angry at the time - now I only say things I mean and that I wouldn't take back when I've calmed down (well, mostly ).

[TheProvincialLady]

I agree Imperial. You have taken on some of the blame for this, when in fact he was 100% at fault. Why the hell shouldn't you speak to someone in anger when they have got hideously drunk and kept you awake when you had a big project to work on? You are entitled to be opinionated about that!

[ImperialBlether]

Sorry, Paula, I don't get it.

What reason does he give for having his music too loud? Is that cultural or a personality trait?

What reason does he give for his aggressive behaviour when you asked him to turn the music down? Is that cultural or his personality?

You spoke to him in anger when he behaved really badly. Any of us would do that.

In this incident, you were upstairs trying to go to sleep when he was making too much noise and being aggressive. That's not you being feisty or opinionated.

Please don't change the way you are. Please look very carefully at what's gone on here - he was totally to blame and you are now made to feel guilty for your personality.

[MCT76]

Hi guys,

I think what happened turned out to be a blessing in disguise as we had to discuss our relationship to get to the bottom of why things got so monumentally out of hand. It was horrible for both of us and after much soul-searching and long conversations, we realised how much we love each other and how amazing things can be. However, we also came to the conclusion that there were some issues we'd not addressed properly which led to both of us re-leasing that level of pent-up frustration in the worst possible way. Some of the problems boil down to cultural differences (not just the drinking but also the way in which we express and conduct ourselves in many ways); others, simply to personality traits which can rub the other person up the wrong way. Regardless of the very valid points that I still feel I had for feeling the way I felt about his antics, I know now that I spoke to him in anger which I shouldn't have done. Equally, his reaction was very hurtful and over the top (which he acknowledges now) and he never meant to question the relationship but to express his concern about how we could handle this in future (granted, he didn't choose the right words to do so).

To be fair, I am a bit feisty and extremely opinionated which he finds difficult to deal with. I feel as if a huge burden has been lifted off my shoulders and I feel hopeful that we will be able to learn a great deal about ourselves and each other from this episode and move forward in a much healthier way.

Thank you all for your support and care. It's been very comforting indeed.

Paula :)

[ImperialBlether]

He sounds absolutely vile, OP.

I wouldn't even dream of having a child with a man like that. He's got a massive problem with drink and with anger, he blames you for everything and he does not support you trying to do your own work.

I'm sure he can be charming, if everything goes his way (ie if you are a complete doormat, absolutely adore him, never question him etc.) You have seen another side of him now and would be crazy to ignore this.

[tb]

Hi Paula,

One thing I've noticed right at the beginning of the thread is that you've just gone freelance and that your 'd'h is training to be an accountant.

I took a training contract with a firm to train as a chartered accountant at 34 and found the pressure to go drinking on a Friday night after work very high. I wasn't high and mighty about it, it was just that I'd been married 13 years, and preferred to be at home with dh rather than be in a bar, under pressure to get ratted with a load of 21-year olds. By the age of 34, there were very few people I knew and trusted enough to be drunk with, even if I'd wanted to. Also when I was made redundant the year before we'd lost 60% of our income, so money was rather tight.

So, the heavy drinking is part of the profession, to some extent. It also happened on away residential courses - I can remember one nightmare night when there were a crowd of drunken lads outside the door trying to force it open.

However, one really outstanding thing I've noticed in all this, is that he doesn't feel any sense of guilt or remorse about endangering your first big commission. That alone, seems extremely childish.

As you are freelance, and he is the only one with a permanent job, I'd be inclined to postpone ttc until he's finished his exams due to the stress. The other worry is that with CIPFA, ACCA and ACA (don't know many CIMA's) there can often be redundancies after qualification as practices/firms get rid of newly-quals and recruit cheaper new graduate cannon-fodder. So, in 2-3 years you could end up with a toddler, and an out of work dh that is pissing up a wall all your hard-earned cash.

Nothing excuses his agression btw, have you thought of contacting al-anon?

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[HerHissyness]

I think AnnieLobesder's suggestion is the best, the most direct and surefired way of getting respect back.

It's a win/win situation, if you shock him into behaving, job done. If he stays gone and keeps binge drinking, then at least he's not disturbing you dear Paula. Tell him to choose! The piss up or his marriage.

[AnnieLobeseder]

He wants you to take all the blame for him acting like an arse, and is threatening you with ending the relationship if you don't act the way he wants you to?

I'd be packing his bags, tbh. I just don't see him having any respect for you, and in my eyes, a relationship can't work without mutual respect.

[Lifeinlalaland]

I can understand if he would prefer to go out with friends seperately and drink then, and it sounds like you are fine with that.

What is disturbing here is his apparant lack of respect for your feelings and his threatening behaviour. Now you have stood your ground he is making emotional threats to you, making you feel like the relationship is really damaged. Would he be doing this if you took 100% of the blame and really grovelled to him? Seems unlikely from your posts. It sounds like all is rosey so long as he gets his own way.

What you described with his friend was not your fault. One of the things that really stood out to me is that you have a big project you need to work on and he has put his drinking above that, not just by getting hammered and disturbing your sleep all night but by continuing with drama over the whole incident, thus distracting you even more from your work.

Why is he not being more supportive? Why did he not go out to drink with his friend and give youi some peace and quiet if he knew what an important weekend this was for you?

It sounds very unfair to me.

Hope you are managing to get some work done today. I'm really sorry he is being such an arse :-(.

[garlicbutter]

"This is how I am. Like it or piss off."
How I am = controlling, angry, selfish, drunk, unyielding.

I am so very sorry; it seems he misrepresented himself to you when you married. You must feel like you've been kicked in the stomach. How are you fixed for supportive friends in real-life? Can you talk to your family & friends back home? If there isn't anybody over here, it would be worth getting yourself a counsellor, I think, just to talk and work things out.

I wish you a calm, pleasant Sunday (as far as possible.) Be kind to yourself.

[empirestateofmind]

It is not just you who needs to be careful when ttc. Alcohol can reduce sperm count and quality.

However are you sure that having a baby with your DH is a good idea at the moment?

[HerHissyness]

oh and stop blooming apologising to him!

(((hugs)))

[HerHissyness]

I don't like the kind of veiled threats this guy is using. I'll drink to oblivion, and you have to put up with it... or I'll reconsider our relationship.

WTF!??

How about shoe on other foot?

You stop drinking to oblivion and I don't have to look up the numbers/support groups for Al-Anon.

Or, how about you stop pickling yourself and perhaps we might have a crack at having sex again a family?

[buzzsore]

Oh right, so if you question his behaviour or fail to accept the whole blame for the argument, he blackmails you with the threat of the relationship ending and his feelings for you changing forever? His "love" is very fragile and conditional, isn't it? Not much like love at all, in fact. It rests completely on you giving in to him, putting up with unacceptable behaviour and being grateful for it.

[Curiousmama]

So sorry it's turning out this way. I hope you'll be ok? Please confide in someone in RL though you need support. Here's a hug for now {{{hug]]] x

[lazarusb]

To me it sounds like he is telling you that you are stifling him and he won't put with it (I don't agree from you've told us). But it does look as though your eyes have been opened. You are now questioning whether your relationship can continue. Again, I think you should put ttc on hold.
If I was you I would question what you are REALLY getting from this relationship. Stop telling yourself you are lucky to have him. The fact he couldn't/wouldn't tell you he felt the same way as he did on your wedding day and you felt crushed says an awful lot

[cjbartlett]

He's a heavy drinker
He needs to give up completely it sounds like