Big, but temporary, financial change. Should I postpone divorce?

[Kaelle]

Global Guy, always too busy to be a husband or a dad (about 5 nights home per month for the last three years), has left the marriage, declaring one year ago that he didn't love me anymore.

Now he has finally said that it's over and he wants to divorce, but he hasn't filed papers yet. Last week, I discovered that his income for next year, always determined at this time of year, will be a lot less. He's a partner in a big global firm and paid based on their profits, which to no one's surprise I'm sure, have taken a nose dive.

This means that whereas I thought I would be financial secure, I may not be, all for a (hopefully) temporary blip in income. We might not be able to ensure that I keep the house AND pay for his new place AND pay for what will surely be an expensive divorce. As an ex-banker and mgt consultant myself (though gave up work 9yrs ago to be full time mum to 3 DD's, 13,11 and 5) I manage all our money and I know we cannot do it all.

This house, absolutely lovely and the result of a creativity I never thought I had, means a lot to me AND the girls. They are very upset at the thought of moving, and GG has said we do not have to move.

On his residence, he has been sleeping on friends' sofa in London for the last 6 mos and is desperate to find somewhere to live, but on the verge of signing for a 1 bedroom flat, fully furnished on the East side of London (we live 60 mi SW of London..) I told him that was NOT on. So now, he's looking for somewhere W of London....

On divorce side, we both have London sols....and have agreed to go through the collaborative process, though I'm still questioning whether all his lying denial, procrastination and running away, will make this avenue possible. We have been given scary cost figures by our sols if we cannot go collaborative.

Two months ago, when he finally told me that he wanted out, and I told him that HE had to file papers and not me, that I was NOT the one leaving the marriage it was him, I felt some sort of catharsis. My efforts to find the key to make him realise what a mistake he was making, were over, and I felt better. However, now that I face financial insecurity for a temporary blip in income, I'm wondering whether I can face postponing our divorce for a year, allowing him the opp to find a place where he can be a dad...

However, I sooooo want to move on. I want to leave this limboland and put everything into some predictability for my girls, getting him to be in more frequent contact with them...Any thoughts????? (sorry for the long opening...these things are so involved, aren't they?)

[Shakti]

Ok k. You have had a crappy couple of days and no one I'd surprised. Nearly the weekend though. Tell us what you are planning for weekend that you will enjoy.

Yes, that was an order! X

[singforsupper]

Was there an OW Kaelle?

[Kaelle]

oooh girls, hang in there with me. I don't think I can articulate anything...which is why I haven't posted. It's been too topsy turvy and I don't know whether I'm coming or going (and sadly, no pun...) GG and I have had lots of contact because he is trying to be there for DD's, and I find it so hard...even though I know its the right thing to do. I've had family here for the last three weeks and I'm just knackered. I'm not sleeping very well and just back into my day by day survival mode, which I thought I'd graduated from. GG is trying to be really decent and it's almost unbearable. He's trying to do the right thing by DD's and I'm really pleased about that, but it comes back to the point about grieving someone who's still alive and who actually WANTS to be more present. I just can't help feeling lost about why he left....and no Sing for Sup, there is no OW, though shrink has always told him that for someone who is not seeing OW he's trying damn hard to make us believe that he is. He just wants a private life.....which doesn't involve the day to day responsibilities of being a husband and a dad.

So the update is that we have postponed divorce, have both seen sols who don't think a sep agmt is a good thing, that as we are amicable we should just get through the next year. I've agreed that he should just take the flat in East London, furnished 1br close to work, because that's what he needs right now. And yes, it will make a big dent in our own lifestyle....but then again, we have one year to sort of muddle through. The fact is that I'm still hopeful about us and have told him so. He has agreed to get himself back into therapy to address his serious work/life balance issues, address a lot of the reasons why he left, and flees conflict in general. He also needs to deal with the fact that he cannot be there for me in times of great need (like with the breakdown of the relationship with my mum...). He just doesn't want to give of himself....fundamentally self-centered, but lovely in lots of ways. There isn't a single person who wouldn't like him.....Just couldn't cope that I couldn't be there for him with kitten heels and full of "You're amazing"...etc. The "worse" part of better or worse just doesn't exist for him. He wants no probs, everything swimmingly along, and happy clappy....but life isn't like that, is it? So he needs to figure out why all his commitments, including 5 DC's fly out the door when there's the minor inkling a problem or a conflict or bad news. I've spent a year trying to unlock him and I now know that I'm not the one who's going to be able to do that....so glad that he promised he would go back into therapy. Question is, with all the white lies....will he go, or just tell me he has??

Shakti and Wisey thanks for following up. I'm a little worried about the post which was deleted off my thread. Did any of you see it? If so, please PM me. I find it disturbing and it makes me wonder whether I should continue...

The weekend... well I'm going to see DD13 tomz on her final day of Senior PC, and be one of the scorers for the competition. GG will be there as well and is taking the day off, like he did last week for DD11 and DD5. He's also going to help us break camp and pack up everything to get DD13 home, AFTER, of course, seeing her in this mock competition. Sat and Sun I have no plans, although GG has agreed to take DC's off me for Sat which is really great. DD11 is performing Fri and Sat night, with Sat matinee for her dance camp. Silly mum that I'm am, I'm going to all three performances. So, then it's just prep for holidays. We leave on Tuesday to go back to see several home country RL GF's - nice to get to engineer your own holiday. I really miss my childhood GF's... you know the ones where you just pick up where you left off and you don't have to explain much because they just GET you....I can't wait.

[NotQuiteSoDesperate]

Don't worry, Kaelle, the deleted post was from a troll who had been leaving similarly nasty messages all over MN yesterday. They were all taken down. This had nothing relevant to your thread at all.

[singforsupper]

I really think he doesn't want a divorce at all. I think he just wants a quiet life, and your life sounds scarily busy - I think you have so much going on with DCs that there is very little time left for him and he probably just feels like an outsider.

I know the separation came from him initially, but he hasn't actually filed for the divorce on paper either. There's no OW, so what's the problem? Other than you are both extremely busy and stressed?

[itwasthat]

singforsupper you may well be correct, but i find such behaviour incredibly selfish

[Kaelle]

Aaah well this is what has kept me up at night for the last year...and I'm going mad. I've had a VERY tough end of the week. Soooo emotional, mainly because he's done what I've asked him to do, and been more present. It kills me.... I'm with sing on this, but I'm not sure if I'm right....regardless of that, it is right in that he's incredibly self-centered. I keep thinking this is typical of a man who has worked very hard and diligently his whole life and now, having passed 50yrs, just wants to "not know" any more responsibility....His first set of children are now at Uni, and our youngest is 5yrs....He's said that he's been a parent of young children for over 22yrs.... FINE but didn't he slightly participate in all those decisions....?????? Now that we're postponing divorce for financial reasons until next year, it could be a good thing. He has agreed to go back to see the great shrink (is there an MN abbreviation, like sols?) we saw together, but his talk is all about him. I agree that he needs to sort himself out big time, and he knows this. But there is absolutely no progress about us...and although I can feel his guilt, I can also feel the complete lack of emotion....and that just hurts deeply. All the travel has had such an impact, like running away and being in his work bubble, so MILES behind me in analysis and digestion of the whole situation, just because I've been obsessively thinking and analysing and going through my own therapy. He's like an infant and I'm a granny on the subject.... So anytime he has this massive revelation to tell me, it's one that I've told HIM 6 mos earlier, which he is only now appropriating as his own thought!!!!!! I mean, I bite my tongue til it bleeds so I don't say.....But but but, I told you that ages ago....I just let him own the thought. How fu**g emotionally disabled can a 50yr old successful brilliant charming man be - no one would EVER guess, I promise you!

Now that we are definitely postponing our divorce, I feel a new thread coming on....any suggestions for a title??

[singforsupper]

I'm getting a better picture of him now Kaelle. He's just a 'bloke' that likes to stay in his world because it's a lot easier, the work, the travel, the lack of emotion, in a bloke's world these are strengths, but in our world they can be the exact opposite. He sounds like someone from a different generation. He has an Ex, I take it?

I think this is sad for his sake really (obviously it is for you too). What does he expect to happen when he is retired, old and grey, not working? He needs to relax and LIVE a little - he sounds very detached - whether he's like that because he's going along with male stereotype I don't know. If he is, there is a chance for change - but if he really believes that being hardworking and successful is what life's about then you know you shouldn't have any regrets when you divorce.

[Wisedupwoman]

Kaelle I think this is what's known as the classic mid-life crisis (apols if it's already been suggested up thread).

May I suggest you visit the Midlife crisis forum and read some of what's been said there? It may help.

I echo what sing says though. You have what seems to me a very full on life, both of you - you somewhat alienated from the career world you had before becoming a SAHM and GG likewise alienated from family life as the 'breadwinner'. If this were the case it's easy to see how a couple relationship can suffer and fall between these two very different contexts.

As painful as it may be right now, is there any chance you and he can think and talk about what has happened to the couple who began with so much hope? I know he seems avoidant right now, and you may not hear what you want to, but you may get some more fruitful answers to the questions that won't go away - not answers from him but from you as to how come this is where you find yourself today.

Your DC's are important, yes, no one here (or anywhere) would dispute that. But your couple relationship is the basis upon which your family life is built and without some work on that and where the issues are, I'm not sure that you and he seeking only individual therapy will help tbh.

Hope that makes sense K. ((hugs)).

[Kaelle]

Thanks sing your description is about right, but don't forget that you would absolutely love to be sat next to him at dinner...he's hip, cool, funny, smart and loves the company of women (in fact, he really doesn't have any male friends....) has tons and tons of acquaintances and colleagues who worship him. So difficult to match that at home...!!! He does have a massive issue about legacy etc etc and that's why he views therapy as a priority - to improve his work/life balance. My reading: to understand why he can't say no to people...to the point of sacrificing his loved ones...and running away from anyone who might actually need him emotionally. All was good as long as I was on form and strong...

Wisey, I will visit midlife forum - I was thinking about starting a new thread on that. We did have about five sessions of couples therapy, but it was all about him, the crisis he was in, the fact that he just didn't love me anymore (said it over and over and over...), that he just didn't want the hassle, that he was tired when he got home, etc etc. He also said that it was not about me, that I had been "amazing and inspirational" 6mos after he finally told me in June of last year that he didn't love me and gave me a list of reasons why not. I agreed with all of them and set out to make some long overdue changes. I had let myself go in my own grief over my mother.

(This was a dreadful breakup -she's still alive, but sadly not in my life anymore because I've had to put up a shield to protect myself - I cannot have mean hurtful people in my life - and that was even worse grief than what I'm enduring now - but that is such a very long story and involves her changing her antidepressant meds and being absolutely unforgivably cruel - not entirely down to medication, but just the opportunity/excuse to let it rip, including the emergence of a dreadfully GREEN eyed monster. Although she's apologetic, she still refuses to stop saying and doing things which overstep her mark. I've told her that I'm fragile and asked her to be kind and considerate, but I think the green eyed monster is secretly happy that the life she so envied is now gone...Sounds horrible and it is, but believe me, this is just the tip of a very involved sticky relationship, one of being raised solely by her and the incredible over-attachment which ensues....I'll be seeing her in a few weeks when we cross the pond - the DD's are spending a day with her....I can already feel the need for a pill.)

GG never understood the depth of that grief. He is not emotionally bonded to his family AT ALL. His parents had such a deep relationship that he and his bro came WAY second, and besides, were sent to boarding school at 7yrs....So that goes a long way to explaining his lack of emotional bonding. But the thing is, the first 10yrs of our marriage WERE close and emotional...and he says for the first time in his life. I just think he couldn't deal with my grief and that I could not be there for him. And it lasted a long time, and he just wanted me to "get over it"....and I couldn't. I wallowed...and got fat...and drank too much...and just got negative about life....so yea, not very attractive, but I lacked his support and felt it deeply, and then he got the global job which then deepened the neglect....and here we are.

The therapist agreed with me, that he needed to go on alone. He was unwilling to do the most minor things towards coming back to me. He said I needed to do no more, that I had already done what he had asked, but that it was too late...he just didn't love me. In therapy, he would agree to, say, take me out to dinner with the rule that we would not talk about "us" - one of the tasks we were set. But that never happened. Telling me the truth about where he was....but he couldn't do that either...and still can't do. So just basically still wanting to do things to destabilise me rather than support me; and then leaving me to raise the children all alone in his very deliberate absence and neglect. It was horrible, mostly because I felt so helpless - there was nothing I could do except try not to bring things up, try not to create a fuss which would push him further away...so the neglect deepened and my isolation became extreme - no mum, no husband. It's why I've fought so hard on so many fronts to get him to at least reclaim his parental role. And now that he's more present I find it desperately difficult. After having seen quite a lot of him over the last two weeks, and him being so cold and visibly dismissive and uninterested (in his gentlemanly and polite way of course...he would NEVER admit to being anything but completely tolerant and polite...that's how deeply he is out of touch with his emotions...he cannot see how he comes across and would deny that he was anything but politely neutral.) Anyway, I'm sure I'll adjust. I'm just glad that DD's and I are off on two weeks' holiday on Tuesday, then won't even see him till second w/e in Sep because of his travels. Sad for the DD's who were either pissed off (DD13), in tears (DD11), or had a tummy ache (DD5), when he left last night. Classic.

[Kaelle]

I'm taking my diary with me and hope to do a lot to get myself back again. I feel so vulnerable and hate the fact that we've got to wait a year, only because the limboland is so hard. And yet, I'm still hopeful that if he does make some inroads into his own life, his own behaviour etc, that he will inch back. Somehow I need to find the strength to keep working on me...even though it doesn't make a difference to him. I know it will make a difference to me. I felt so great while losing that three stone, and going religiously to the gym 3x/week - those two things are a miracle for me!! I need to get back on that dreadful diet of depravation, get back to the gym, and get back into studying for that very stupid certificate I need to obtain to get myself back into the finance world in this country. I've kept the three stone I lost, off, which is good, and just need to motivate....for my girls' sake. And promise not to cry ever again in front of GG.

[itwasthat]

hope youre ok kaelle, thats the first time ive read that he told you he didnt love you, unless i mis read elesewhere. know that i know he said that i do think you are doing the right thing. start working on you, if you can get out more, mixing more so you can move on from him. you know what you musnt come across as is someone who is available to him when he decides , hugs

[itwasthat]

sorry for my badly written post! didnt read it before i sent it

[Kaelle]

It, I know it's what I need to do. Just sometimes it's so hard to pick yourself up and do something for yourself. Easier to just be in reactive, day to day mode, cuz it's stuff you just have to do. I've not been great at motivating myself to do much else. I did it last autumn in a big way and really did feel on top of the world until I realised that it made no diff to GG, then I slumped again (but thank GOD did not put any weight on). I know I can get back there, and DD's want me to. They want to know they can rely on me....but having GG back in my life puts me in a tailspin. Anyway, the hols will be good. Seeing two great RL v close GF's from high school and sooooo looking forward to it.

Socially, it's hard. Firstly my very active social life when married virtually disappeared overnight. Then, when I do get invited, I don't last very long...I'm bored without GG who was always by far the most interesting man there....I don't know about you, but I can't believe how many men out there are actually not that interested in women....blokes with blokes.

Then, I'm lurking on Saffy's thread, where so much resonates with me.... and I think that at some point, I too will be confronted w OW, even though he maintains not, still. There's just too much secrecy to just chuck it down to wanting his own life. So I'm down about that too. I can make a valid, convincing argument on both sides....so which is it? And why can't I just move in, without needing to know? If it's over, then it's over - I just wish I really knew NOW.

[itwasthat]

the only thing i can add is that you sure do put this man on a pedestal, to such a degree is that healthy? and yes a lot of men just stick together talking shite, i always think you can tell those men who had sisters and those who did not

[Kaelle]

He definitely has his faults, but I can't deny his strengths. Not sure how much that matters now anyway.....!! Must move on I guess as if all is going through in 12mos time....

[Saffysmum]

Hi Special K

You're still in the very early stages of working through everything. You're expecting a lot from yourself, and it's natural to want to work through everything quickly and recover, but you simply can't. You have to accept that it will take as long as it takes.

You still think a hell of a lot of this man. The way you write about him speaks volumes. You say that he would always be the most interesting man in the room, to everyone, that he's charming and he's "hip, cool, and loves the company of women". I bet you I wouldn't find him hip, cool and charming. That's because I'd see him as his really is, whereas, to be blunt (sorry) I think you're seeing him through rose-tinted glasses.

It's time to take those glasses off K.

This man is nothing special. He is doing what mine did, what thousands have done before and thousands will do again. I bet it would hurt his ego and pride terribly to be told that he is a perfect stereotype of the typical middle aged bloke, who wants to reclaim his youth, doesn't want to get older and most of all doesn't want the responsibility and trappings of a family life.

He's selfish, cold, detached, indifferent. He's made no attempts to meet you even a third of the way towards making things work.

Mine was exactly the same. His coldness, indifference and detachment took my breath away. He told me on two separate occasions almost a year apart, that he no longer loved me. Unlike yours, mine could give me no reason why. The year between each time was hell on earth. Yours told you to change things about you. Unbelievable. In your despair, you changed. And he still no longer loved you. Well, he wouldn't. Mine didn't love me, so although I didn't know what was wrong with me, I jumped through a million hoops trying to be what I thought he wanted me to be. THIS WAS WRONG. The first thing you really need to get to grips with is that you have done nothing wrong. The weight loss is great - for you. But losing it for him was futile. Because he has decided somewhere along the way that he's not going to love you any more.

"Love" is a verb. Love is something we do. We show our love, we work at it. He had decided not to. Mine was just the same.

Sorry to say this K, but you're in for a very rough year. Limboland is awful. It's much better the other side. Prolonging the inevitable, whilst clinging to hoping he will change is soul destroying.

You've decided to delay the divorce for financial reasons. I just hope the cost emotionally and possibly physically to you isn't too high a price to pay. Because he's not who you say he is, he's just a cliche, like all the others. You are worth so much more.

And I wanted to say it pages ago, but I didn't feel I could broach it - but I think for certain there's another woman. It would explain so much. Deep down your sub-conscious knows this too - and when she surfaces, a lot will make more sense.

So put yourself first, enjoy your holiday, write your journal. But stop trying to put the blame on yourself, and stop giving him so much credit.
Take care X

[Kaelle]

Boo hoo saffy...but i know you're right. I'm just at a different stage of grief to you. You said you stopped loving yours ages ago...well, I'm not there yet. I savvy enough to speak some truths, but not ready to give up....I'm sure many have been here like me, but as you said, everyone goes through it at different speeds.

Thanks so much for your post. Rough truths to hear. Keep me thinking....x

[Wisedupwoman]

Well I want to add my twopence worth.

Someone said to me very early on indeed (and it hurt to read it) - no man leaves a comfortable home and family life to eat pot noodles in a shit bedsit (or in GG's case a 1 br flat). They leave when there's a suitable replacement figure waiting in the wings. If WWIFN were here she would say the same (and she isn't, won't be, and we're all the poorer for that - don't ask).


You've lost loads of weight, fab for you. You're carrying the bulk of the load of the DC's needs, not great, but you are clearly up for doing that (but he's not incapable and should be doing his bit as Saff suggests).

I think it's good that you're even attempting a social life tbh, and if it doesn't suit to be in entirely married circles find a local social group that isn't about coupledom - there must be something near to you that you can access that's about you individually, where you come as you and not with the history that your married friends know about.

Oh got to go, DD is about to arrive. Keep strong K, we're with you. x

[Kaelle]

I've told GG that if there was an OW, it would be much easier for me to understand and draw a line...but he still stands fast. I maintain, but it's because this is what I want, that sing is right. If he really wanted a divorce, he would have filed. However, he stands fast on his view that this is over.....

Regardless, I believe now that I have to move on and look after ME again, on my own account. Off on holiday on Tuesday for two weeks and will kickstart "project Kaelle." upon my return- to be defined while relaxing with wine and DC's on holiday in the sun...

[Wisedupwoman]

Hope it's a good one K, you deserve some nice times.

[Wisedupwoman]

K are you there?