Big, but temporary, financial change. Should I postpone divorce?

[Kaelle]

Global Guy, always too busy to be a husband or a dad (about 5 nights home per month for the last three years), has left the marriage, declaring one year ago that he didn't love me anymore.

Now he has finally said that it's over and he wants to divorce, but he hasn't filed papers yet. Last week, I discovered that his income for next year, always determined at this time of year, will be a lot less. He's a partner in a big global firm and paid based on their profits, which to no one's surprise I'm sure, have taken a nose dive.

This means that whereas I thought I would be financial secure, I may not be, all for a (hopefully) temporary blip in income. We might not be able to ensure that I keep the house AND pay for his new place AND pay for what will surely be an expensive divorce. As an ex-banker and mgt consultant myself (though gave up work 9yrs ago to be full time mum to 3 DD's, 13,11 and 5) I manage all our money and I know we cannot do it all.

This house, absolutely lovely and the result of a creativity I never thought I had, means a lot to me AND the girls. They are very upset at the thought of moving, and GG has said we do not have to move.

On his residence, he has been sleeping on friends' sofa in London for the last 6 mos and is desperate to find somewhere to live, but on the verge of signing for a 1 bedroom flat, fully furnished on the East side of London (we live 60 mi SW of London..) I told him that was NOT on. So now, he's looking for somewhere W of London....

On divorce side, we both have London sols....and have agreed to go through the collaborative process, though I'm still questioning whether all his lying denial, procrastination and running away, will make this avenue possible. We have been given scary cost figures by our sols if we cannot go collaborative.

Two months ago, when he finally told me that he wanted out, and I told him that HE had to file papers and not me, that I was NOT the one leaving the marriage it was him, I felt some sort of catharsis. My efforts to find the key to make him realise what a mistake he was making, were over, and I felt better. However, now that I face financial insecurity for a temporary blip in income, I'm wondering whether I can face postponing our divorce for a year, allowing him the opp to find a place where he can be a dad...

However, I sooooo want to move on. I want to leave this limboland and put everything into some predictability for my girls, getting him to be in more frequent contact with them...Any thoughts????? (sorry for the long opening...these things are so involved, aren't they?)

[Kaelle]

Fabby, you are being a little harsh here. Just so you know, I am completely within my rights in my expectations. And he's not denying any of it.

As for worrying about his living. Part of the reason that he has not had the children is that he has no permanent place. He travels tons and has been staying on the sofa of mutual friends on the odd nights that he is not traveling or having work reason for taking a hotel. He then wanted to sign on a furnished 1bd flat in London. Well, I'm sorry but that is not somewhere he can have the children. So you're all correct in saying that I shouldn't be involved, but if I want him to be an active parent then he needs to have a place to have them. He has agreed with that and has organised viewings this weekend....I'll find out more tonight I guess. Oh and by the way, Fabby, as long as he is still on this house's deed, and we use some of this equity as a down payment for his house, it's perfectly right of me to expect that if he buys something while we're still married, that we should buy that jointly. Then, when we do divorce we can deal with the split of capital, and take each other of our own houses.

On the divorce costs, and the main reason for this post, (although my comments since have been all over the place) I believe there's enough transparency and goodwill to go through the brand new collaborative process. I posted on this a month ago to try to see if anyone had gone through this already. You basically have your own solicitors, but everything is decided around the table with all parties present. It relies on parties being civil to each other. You have strict agendas for each meeting and it moves quickly. When all is agreed, it gets sent to the courts. Its a formal process, and should work for us. We won't go anywhere near Shakti's friend's £146K but it will still be expensive. Right now, I most want him to find a good place to live so he can have the girls.

And I guess, having re-read my last post, maybe I think that with another year, governed by a formal separation agreement, might give him some more space/time to think. He has said that he's going to reduce his travel because, OMG at 52, he's tired and stressed out. What a surprise!

[Kaelle]

Saffy, I'm so there. Everything you say about your break up is me. I really don't want to accept that it's over. I DO know it's him, but I'm savvy enough to know how I contributed. No one is immune in the break up of a marriage.

There's a great book called His Needs Her Needs. This book completely spoke to me and gave me a huge level of understanding. I honestly think we could have avoided this had WE embraced and fully understood all that is said in this book. Ours is a story of not sufficiently meeting the other's needs.

I'm so sad right now - it's a bad day. Thanks to all of you for being there. My dd's have not had breakfast and are still watching TV....I've just been sitting at the computer all morning...I feel this is where I need to be. They'll survive - Actually, in having a careful listen, I think I hear DD13 making eggs...good girl! I do love them so much! Can i say Damn Damn AGAIN???

[Wisedupwoman]

You can say damn as often as you like, and here's mine - DAMN!

Have just stopped in on my way to a meeting so can't stay, will be back later.

((hugs))

[Kaelle]

Thanks Wisey. I'm off now to Dr's appt and then up to London to meet with GG to talk money and plans. I'll be checking in via iPhone. I'm really upset to have to see him. I want to be calm cool and collected like you were Wisey at your first mediation. I don't want to cry, but I so easily do. DAMN again! why do we? Doesn't that just suck. It's the perceived potential conflict which makes me cry....ugggh.

[drfayray]

Ah Kaelle....I feel your pain. Sigh...

Damn, say damn? Have a look at my thread, my language is far worse. Childish but it helps me.

I do not understand the not being interested in my children bit...no sorry OUR children...his children...

Makes me so very sad...and furious.

[barbiegrows]

Hi Kaelle, I'm not the best person to advise you on divorce, but I have spent a little time reading through your thread to notice that there is a LOT of talk about money, legal matters, who gets what and very little talk of what went wrong, why and also, what happens to the children.

You may be seeking advice from the wrong people (solicitors) when you could benefit more from advice from counsellors. It seems to me that if he is not filing for divorce he may not actually want it. Perhaps this is what you are hoping for too - you obviously still love him. You mention the book - has he read it? Is he fully aware that there may be an alternative?

It does seem as though you are being dragged into a bewildering forest of financial benefits and legal loopholes by solicitors and you are finding it hard to see a way out.

[Shakti]

Kaelle - thinking of you.

Remember to put the ball in his court. He wants this, he can suggest a way through.

PS And...if you do want him back at some point then being as dignified as you can right now will help I promise.

[baytree]

Kaelle,

It's like you've just peeled off the first layers of GG but still need to truly understand what's gone wrong and why. Maybe if you can get to this you can move on better together or apart.

In my experience the popular, talented man like you have described was underneath so needy for love, reassurance and felt so lonely. He travelled the world using work and buying material things to give him the feel good that he missed when we drifted apart. Hugs

[baytree]

Barbiegrows just seen your post and agree with you

[Pickadaytocelebrate]

Just a word of warning about your expectations for the collaborative divorce process. Make sure you've both briefed your solicitors on your wish for a collaborative agreement. Even in the easiest divorces when the chips are down money can become very difficult. And that can be exacerbated by solicitors who are trying the aggressively go after every penny for their client rather than compromising in some areas in order to get an overall deal. They can get carried away in the adrenalin of the moment. In my case my exH and I had agreed the deal between us, each went off to see our solicitors and he came back saying he was going after me for spousal maintenance. We had no children, he had a good job and we were in our early thirties. Yet somehow his solicitor had convinced him he could get more to keep him in the style to which he'd become accustomed.

[Kaelle]

On my way to mtg GG now.
Barbiegrows, I know the thread sounds skewed towards money cuz that's how it started. Do I sacrifice my potential to keep the house, by pushing forward w the divorce or do I prioritise him getting a home which would be better for DD's, and therefore wait until next year to divorce when the financials are more likely to be better?? Me wanting to find the key to unlock his father responsibility is also an issue, cuz I love my girls too much to want to take them on on my own.

I have been seeing a counsellor since Last Sep! And we had five sessions w a marriage counsellor last nov/dec before deciding that as he was unwilling to do anything constructive toward the process, perhaps he needed to see her alone. He agreed but went once and never returned. Ive spent the last year overanalysing him and the whole situation. I don't understand why things were so bad that he felt he had to leave!! I have done a whole load of work on this personally, but without more interaction w him on the topic, Iwhich doesn't look like it will happen(!!) I can't get to much closure!!!

Now I'm caught in the limbo land of wanting this to move forward practically and maybe hoping w a bit more time he would clear his head. Very difficult for me to be in limboland and for a whole year!! I'm ambitious, driven and decisive by nature, and a mother-lion saffys style w respect to my girls.

I'm going to follow your ideas girls this very meeting. I prepared the spreadsheet shown drying for this next year, which clearly shows we can't do it all, and put the ball in his court. I'll tell you how it went on my way back on the train. Arriving Waterloo now! Wish me the strength NOT to cry.

[Wisedupwoman]

Oh I probably missed you, but at least we'll be there straight afterwards. Wanted to wish you luck and (hugs) for tonight Kaelle.

The way I see it you are doing what I (and we, probably all) do - your mind is all over the place trying to find certainty in a very uncertain time. It's part of the process, it's normal and natural. At some point you will settle down and find your own rhythm, deal with things one stage at a time and feel much more in control, especially when the ball is in GG's court.

You are trying to cope with the emotional fall-out as well as the practical side all on your own at the moment and I know it's normal but not helpful or useful to try and get yourself into GG's mind - it's not possible unless he truthfully tells you where he's at and how likely is that right now? Not very IME.

Having said that he's probably just as mixed up as you are, and just as scared maybe - if you have been the protector of the finances all this time and he's been an ostrich, then he will know he's got to get his act together pronto if he's going to survive out there without you holding his hand, as it were. But you cannot and shouldn't protect him from the reality of his decisions. I guarantee that if you let him go and have what sounds like the 'mid-life' thing, and get on with life, you will see a more humbled and respectful man a couple of months down the line - my XH was the same, and now he is a mess actually, and I'm the one who's back at work, have the RL friendship network and my DC's around me whilst he is living in someone else's home, having to be a family man to DC's who aren't his own. Doesn't sound like the freedom from restraints of marriage he was aiming for to me.

Why? Because I let him and didn't fight it, didn't run after him and didn't try to 'understand' him any more. I can't tell you how much my perception of him has changed in these months - from the high-flying, super-intelligent, accomplished professional to a man who I discovered is not liked or trusted by a single colleague or all but one of our mutual RL friends, and even he knows PTM is a man who has pushed the self destruct button.

So you will change your view I think, even though you still love him. The two can go hand in hand, but you'll learn to have a different relationship with him, no matter what happens in the future. Heck, you have to.

[Kaelle]

Saffy, that's great. I do see all of what you're saying. I will proceed w all the paperwork and have a serious talk to sols about pros and cons of filing...myself.

Sooooo meeting w GG was very ok. Very civilised and agreed stuff and talked about ongoing role w DD's. Actually chatted in our old way about issues w temp downturn in income...we agreed to get sols to draft a Separation agmt, while continuing to agree how we move forward.
Getting on train now.

[Kaelle]

Every time I see him and we have a great time, I just wonder what the hell was so bad that he had to leave???? I'm not sure he could even articulate it! I did shed a few tears at certain points... I feel like DAMN DAMN again.

[Kaelle]

Wisey, I didn't even see your post when I was responding to Saffy, whose post has disappeared!! Am I completely losing the plot???

Ok so mtg w GG was good in lots of ways. I was calm and he was ok. We had two and a half hours together to go over stuff and just catch up. I cried at certain points when we started to talk about money cuz I told him that I was dreading losing control of how money was spent and petrified about my future... I told him I wanted to do ething poss to keep the house, but that I wanted him to find proper Dad accommodation. We then talked about his career and plans etc so that could be dealt w financially too. And finally we agreed that this year he would rent somewhere, we would enter into a separation agreement and that we would postpone divorce until next year. We agreed a caveat, though, that if our solicitors had valuable arguments against this position that we would reconsider.

I left still confused about why we left. It was a seriously ok time...DAMN DAMN.

Wisey, you had loads more to say, but DD no 2 is just coming home and I need to look after her...will check in at my usually ridiculously early time! Tomorrow morning....!

[Wisedupwoman]

I think you're so courageous to face GG at such a time Kaelle. I just couldn't let PTM see me cry, not a single tear more than he's seen already and I didn't want to come away with more questions than answers.

If it's any consolation at all, GG probably isn't skipping about with glee. Just as it takes two to contribute (however unequally) to the breakdown, neither party gets off scot free, even the one who initiates the break, however they do it.

Sleep well tonight.

[Kaelle]

Shakti, forgot to say that your post was a great reminder.I tried to remain me, dignified... That felt good except for the few moments of damn damn tears. Such a wuss...wasn't flooding tho so GG was coping ok...

[Shakti]

Nothing wrong with a few tears. You don't want to be 'fake' dignified and he should fucking (whoops...should I change that for a dignified damn?) know what a mess he has made. Dignity, even poise, is more than tears or lack of.

[drfayray]

Sounds like you went well Kaelle, well done. I can relate to this. I have had some conversations with ABCKF that have been like how it used to be. Except....except it is not anymore. I used to carry around a printout of a letter he wrote to OW to REMIND me why this can never ever be mended. He wanted to do this..he wanted to leave what I believed was a good marriage. He led me along for seven months until he decided that no, he preferred to be a single man again.

Good luck with everything.

[Kaelle]

Good Morning! I feel a real range of emotion today, and I don't think I've processed everything. It's as if my mind just reverts back into survival mode of "today only", when so much is coming at me. I have spent so long trying to analyse him, me, why why why, what can I do what can I do....and then I vacillate between feeling perfectly sorted and ready to move on and just so amazingly deeply sad and regretful that we let things get to such an apparently irreparable state that I want to still try to "make him see". At the moment, I am smack bang in the middle. And so in true Buddhist terms (I've taken to meditating every morning - a life saver) I'm just going to go and let it 'SIT'.

I've got a massive big pony club day today (don't laugh...it's a real joy to me) as our club is running our area Show Jumping so I'll be stewarding (DD's not competing this time). That will keep me very busy and I'll be around people I enjoy and have an active day. Should be good for the soul.

Will check in this afternoon/evening and try to give justice to all your lovely comments of yesterday. Thank you.

[TDada]

Kaelie
You sound so together, fair and balanced in difficult circustances. Weelldone. And Shakti is so right about remaining dignified. Also you must maintain control and composure when dealing with him. You can use GFs and relations for support.

I tend to recommend intense fir ess program and a hairdo as a (slight)distractor.

Best wishes

[pickgo]

Hope you have a good day then K.

WRT all these emotions, vacillating between hope and acceptance and holding on to the 'what can I do', 'if only he could see this or that', and all the other thoughts that torture one in this situation - I'm not sure there is any quick way out of them. The sooner you can 'let them go', the sooner you can move on, but I think everyone seems to have to experience a certain amount of them. Perhaps that is how we do process all the pain and hurt. I know how painful it is though.

I think the main thing is to really keep an eye on your inner 'script' and regularly take a step back and scrutinise your thoughts to check that you are not allowing a self-critical and self-reproachful voice to 'accuse' you. That's when you start to feel that it is all your fault, that the break up is because of your flaws etc. Obviously it isn't. Bottom line, marriages break up when one of the parties no longer wants his or her needs to be met through the marriage. Thats's the trouble with the 'needs' book, it assumes goodwill and invlovement in that relationship. And from all you've said I don't think your H still has that. He's disengaged from you and the DCs.

I think you need to take very good care that you proceed now with yourself and Dcs as your priority. Reading between the lines, I'm not sure that you can take your meeting yesterday at face value. A clever, experienced older man might well be playing this very cynically. Partly out of guilt, partly because it's just easier, he might be just saying what you want to hear. The 'caveat' to your agreement yesterday may well materialise once he's spoken to his sol. 'His needs' will be met. He'll make sure of that I bet.

[Saffysmum]

Great post Pickgo, I agree with every word.

Hope you enjoy your day Special K.

[Kaelle]

Saffy, I really like the Special K. It does, well, make me feel special!! Silly, but high marks on the feel good factor.

Pickgo, that was pretty darn good. GG does not want conflict, so he behaved in his normal gentlemanly way. Yes, he's older, but not that much older than me...and I'm actually way more savvy in lots of different ways, though his rating is off the scale when it's time to "just get on with it", which is why he can't deal with his negative emotions, disappointed in me etc.... I hate thinking that maybe he behaved so nicely just because he's being an ostrich and just wanting everything to be OK. I dealt with that issue numerous times this year, and I kept thinking that I do not want him to think that everything's OK, I don't want him thinking that I'm not devastated, so I am not going to be OK. I want him to know that what he's doing is shit and blindingly hurtful. He would just rather know that I'm my usual strong self and "getting over it".

You know, Wisey, I agree with you that he is not doing great. I even told him that yesterday. Everytime I see him he looks worse. He's smoking massively and getting that gaunt look, despite the tan he sports from having the DD's in Italy for a week. he's not doing well. But get this, he told me first that I was looking well. Imagine that. Maybe pickgo, he was just trying to butter me up...

So here's the thing. I AM better. I've lost three stone, deliberately, not from stress, I've had months of personal therapy, journey etc, I'm more positive, I'm focussed on what I want to do IF this goes the way of divorce....but, I still fundamentally think he's going to come around and see the error of his ways. So I'm not completely in acceptance zone of my situation... You've all said how unhappy they all are afterwards...I see that definitely in his cards. There really is no obvious OW - and if there is, he's not spending any money on her.....!!!! So that's why all this strength and bravado in me is coupled with DAMN DAMN the strong desire for me, yes me, to find the key to unlocking this shit in him - I still feel like I'm the only one who can get him to go there. I told him he really needed to get into therapy, if not for me, then to be a better dad, because he's really got so many emotional issues, and fear of intimacy and that affects all his children. So if I am supposedly the only person he was emotionally intimate with, as he said so many times, and I really believe him, then somehow I feel the responsibility to get him to think. However, the last year, he has not been around enough to really get into it - I know he hasn't wanted to either....

Am I wanting to do all this because I really deeply love him (Yes, that's my first thought), because I don't want to have a failed marriage (yes, I hate that thought), because I don't want to be a single parent (Definitely), because our whole social life has disappeared while he's having a bachelor life (Well yes, but that's minor cuz I know I'm capable of rekindling or rebuilding. I'm the one who has gone under the radar..but it galls me that people are so uncomfortable with "problems". I'm no longer invited anywhere!!!)

As for children being the priority, I love Saffy's point somewhere about being a lioness when it comes to DC's. However, DD13 told me yesterday to stop trying to threaten GG into calling them. "If Dad doesn't want to call us, then we'll deal with it, but I don't want him calling just because you've threatened him into doing it..." Don't know how she knew I did that. phone peek? or GG telling her???? Ya see why I love them so much? She's so right. But it had been over a week since he had been in contact with any of them AND he was in London all week. What's with that? How could I NOT step in and fight for them???

So Wisey and mapam, for all of us, it comes back to one day at a time. This morning, I couldn't even face all these thoughts, but I did something completely different all day today, and honestly did not think about it at all. I needed to concentrate and get competitors through the day as fast as possible because these pony club days are already too long....I loved the distraction. And yet, driving home, I couldn't wait to log on and let it all flow.....

I think my posts are too long (big giggle from the community at large). Sorry, but when it flow it flows, and I love the fact that you all pick and choose what resonates. That's why this has been so good for me. I wish I had done this sooner. And I'm really enjoying contributing to others too....

[Shakti]

He is so so stupid.

x