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Relationships

Big, but temporary, financial change. Should I postpone divorce?

122 replies

Kaelle · 28/07/2011 08:39

Global Guy, always too busy to be a husband or a dad (about 5 nights home per month for the last three years), has left the marriage, declaring one year ago that he didn't love me anymore.

Now he has finally said that it's over and he wants to divorce, but he hasn't filed papers yet. Last week, I discovered that his income for next year, always determined at this time of year, will be a lot less. He's a partner in a big global firm and paid based on their profits, which to no one's surprise I'm sure, have taken a nose dive.

This means that whereas I thought I would be financial secure, I may not be, all for a (hopefully) temporary blip in income. We might not be able to ensure that I keep the house AND pay for his new place AND pay for what will surely be an expensive divorce. As an ex-banker and mgt consultant myself (though gave up work 9yrs ago to be full time mum to 3 DD's, 13,11 and 5) I manage all our money and I know we cannot do it all.

This house, absolutely lovely and the result of a creativity I never thought I had, means a lot to me AND the girls. They are very upset at the thought of moving, and GG has said we do not have to move.

On his residence, he has been sleeping on friends' sofa in London for the last 6 mos and is desperate to find somewhere to live, but on the verge of signing for a 1 bedroom flat, fully furnished on the East side of London (we live 60 mi SW of London..) I told him that was NOT on. So now, he's looking for somewhere W of London....

On divorce side, we both have London sols....and have agreed to go through the collaborative process, though I'm still questioning whether all his lying denial, procrastination and running away, will make this avenue possible. We have been given scary cost figures by our sols if we cannot go collaborative.

Two months ago, when he finally told me that he wanted out, and I told him that HE had to file papers and not me, that I was NOT the one leaving the marriage it was him, I felt some sort of catharsis. My efforts to find the key to make him realise what a mistake he was making, were over, and I felt better. However, now that I face financial insecurity for a temporary blip in income, I'm wondering whether I can face postponing our divorce for a year, allowing him the opp to find a place where he can be a dad...

However, I sooooo want to move on. I want to leave this limboland and put everything into some predictability for my girls, getting him to be in more frequent contact with them...Any thoughts????? (sorry for the long opening...these things are so involved, aren't they?)

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barbiegrows · 31/07/2011 00:40

I still find that the reams and reams of writing you're doing here Kaelle is 90% about what is best for you financially and only 10% what is best for your dcs. You have hardly mentioned them, except in relation to what they have said about you, or that they are not competing in the Pony Club that you are involved in. This mother-lioness thing is a nice idea, being 'dignified' is a nice idea, but I don't see any evidence of it here.

In agonising over the last few pennies you are going through a lot of unnecessary stress, and putting your children through it with you. You don't sound as though you will be financially disadvantaged, there is no evidence that your partner is trying anything on, you said yourself you are 'ambitious and driven' - use that in the workplace - you don't need to squeeze this man.

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mummytime · 31/07/2011 07:09

You don't sound as if you are prepared to step back and let GG get on with his life, and for him to deal with the consequences.
You told him he couldn't rent a furnished flat (because it was too small).
You nag him to phone his daughters.

I think you should be stepping back, let him be an adult, support your daughters if he lets them down, but at 13 they are old enough to phone him themselves if they want.

I initially thought that you were worried because you might get a lower settlement, not because you are still trying to handle his finances as well as your own. Let him get on with sorting his life, and you sort yours.

Sorry.

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Kaelle · 31/07/2011 10:51

Ouch Barbiegrows. That hurt. It's difficult to get everything across in a relatively new thread. So much emotion going on. DD's are always on my mind as they are with me 24/7. I want the best for all of us, and have managed to get them through a lot this past year. DD13 is at one of the best schools in the country and managed to hold her own, academically and emotionally, despite being terribly homesick, pissed off with GG and worried about me. DD11 managed to be strong and positive and confident enough to get herself into the Royal Ballet School (one of 12 out of 1200 applicants!!! [massive mummy pride] ). DD5 still manages to bounce around happily, and has no separation anxiety, despite the fact that one parent has disappeared. You know why? Because I'm here and an excellent mum (yes I'm bragging because I'm very proud of them and of myself!!! DAMNIT) . I haven't taken to my bed, I haven't neglected them, and I've been 100% focussed on them despite being completely neglected myself and away from family and close childhood friends. I'm not putting my children through a lot of stress, I'm shielding them from most of it and overcompensating for an absent father (for my sins??). It's only now when the practicalities of our lifestyle begins to come to the forefront, that my materialistic side comes out more. It's only natural that I should try to understand WHAT I'm entitled to; I have no desire to squeeze him. But that's part of a whole process. FYI, Pony Club was an event for the level above my DD13, so it was our day to give back. I had a big stewarding job, but all three DDs were around me acting as runners for everyone. It was our girls day out together giving back to what we consider to be a great organisation. So just because I didn't say the girls were with me, didn't deserve that comment Barbiegrows. I have a feeling you've got issues which you're projecting onto me. Ask a bit before you criticise. Feedback, yes. Food for thought, yes! I'm not an oger. I'm a MN like the rest of us, on here because I want to do my best, do the right thing, and I believe in relying on the Girlfriends at large. Point taken about the reams and reams...

Mummytime, you're right about the whole thing, but I have had this role our whole marriage. And his decision to divorce is only one month old. GG was in charge of finances when we got married and bought me my ring without having any money, then ignored the bill until he got a court summons. This is the ostrich I am dealing with. So I took over immediately - it's his helpless thing. He thinks if he leaves something undesirable long enough, someone else will do it for him. In our marriage I never minded - every couple has their own way of separating the jobs - I did everything financial, and we benefitted from it! I know I have to separate from him but if I let him do financial things now, before we are officially divorced, then my credit is at risk as everything is held jointly. This is not smart, as it is not a good place to be in as a divorcee. Having said all that, you are absolutely right about all of it, and there are things I can and will do to change things. Just let me take it all in and figure out the first steps. Thank you. And by the way, DD's are 13,11 and 5 so they are still little and do need protecting. DD13 is getting wise, and that's good...and being girls, they all express their emotions very well and all the time......if you know what I mean, and I deal with that too 100% 24/7...

Barbie, sorry if I barked, but you hit a nerve.

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Kaelle · 31/07/2011 10:58

Decided will no longer nag him to ring DD's. He's been in London since July 18th. He rang DD13 on her bday 23/7, didn't ask for DD5 who was there, who then burst into tears. Rung them 28/7 because I threatened to name and shame, but still didn't speak to DD11, who now hasn't heard from him since they cam back from their week together with him 18/7. When we met on Friday, he promised he would ring them and be more proactive....still no call to any of them.

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Shakti · 31/07/2011 12:43

I think your love and care for the girls shines through your posts. It is implicit in everything you are trying to do. Of course money dominates some of the posts - it must be at the front of your mind right now. I would just remind everyone that for the children to stay in their own home is best for them.

Until the divorce comes through you have no option K but to continue to keep an eye on your not-so-dear husbands money handling especially as he has shown himself to be so useless! On the other hand, he does need to take responsibility for his life and the choices he is making - so do ask him how he thinks it will sort out.

How about you use your desire to be proactive in ensuring that the relationship between father and children continues for their sake but a bit more remotely? Could the children send him an email on a regular basis telling him what they have been up to? I would hope he would respond and thus some type of a relationship will continue until he grows up and acts like a man. If nothing else your children will always know that you wanted them to be free to have a relationship with their father.

Some comments on here are harsh - worth considering as people's opinions are always interesting but not worth losing any sleep over.

As your daughter said it is a good plan not to nag him to keep in touch with the children instaed leaving it for him. But, children need dad's (and I can see that you

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Wisedupwoman · 31/07/2011 13:33

K have to go out somewhere but i'll be back later and will post.

You're great, you are, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise!

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Shakti · 31/07/2011 13:46

Bloomin' heck - anyone would think I was entirely illiterate!

Please ignore last para - not quite sure how I did that!

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drfayray · 31/07/2011 13:54

Kaelle, I can see your desire to look after your DC. I share this. I, too, have the best interests of my darling DC to look after. I have worked very hard to ensure that they are happy and doing well. But one has to be practical re: money ( a reason why my so-called H is still coming to the house). I need for the DC to be safe and stable.

I am glad you and your girls had a great day at Pony Club. Take care and be strong.

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Kaelle · 31/07/2011 15:10

Thanks girls, I did loose sleep over Barbie's post - I was awake between 1-4am worrying anyway, only to find that post. I'm aware that sometimes the toughest messages are those closest to home - but I don't think that applies too much in this case. Still, I took it onboard and didn't reply until this morning. Thing is, no one is a perfect mom, so we're always second guessing ourselves. I do know deep down that I'm doing the best possible job I can and that the girls needs to see the ups and downs too if they are to understand that breakups hurt. I don't want them to think that everyone just gets on with it. Grieving is OK - for each and all of us. I only wish GG could really appreciate the hurt he's causing, not, I guess, that it would make a difference.

Now I'm exhausted and want to take a nap, but I'm desperately trying to stop this cycle of napping because I had a bad night's sleep.....I'm trying so many things, other than pills....but it's directly down to the worrying. The meditation has been brilliant and I notice that the restlessness comes back when I skip a few days. Last night, the nighttime Rescue Remedy, which has normally been good, had no effect....I hate not sleeping cuz them I'm less patient and more grumpy - no surprise!

So I just "zinged" myself with a super strong coffee and sat down at the PC until it takes effect!!

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Wisedupwoman · 31/07/2011 15:31

Don't know if you're still there K or fast asleep by now.

Just want to say, it's ok, you are only 1 month in - why wouldn't you be preoccupied with everything? Feck, I still go into over thinking things and I'm 5 months down the line, my strength is fragile and subject to the slightest whiff of anything remotely challenging to my sense of being in charge of the process.

Thing is, grief is like a leaky bucket. Soon as you think you're on top of one thing, another comes along and reminds you of the loss and it hurts like hell.

So you still love GG deeply, and hold out the hope that there is still something worth saving. That's fine too, we all do it. I still love PTM but there's nothing there to fight for. Just keep pressing on though, don't wait for him to realise the error of his ways, I'm sure this has already been said, but he will have to do this by seeing you get on with your life without him. Sometimes it's the wake -up call they need, and sometimes it's not, but whatever the outcome, you will have done the work you need to for yourself and your DD's.

Don't worry about the long posts, just get it all out there Smile.

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TimeForMeIsFree · 31/07/2011 16:15

Hi Kaelle I am a lurker on your thread but have delurked to say that nowhere within your posts do I get the impression that you are not caring or thinking about your children, I don't even get the impression that you are thinking only about finances. What I do feel from your thread is that you are a woman who still loves her husband very much, that you are hurt beyond belief and trying to make sense of what has happened, that you can't quite believe it has happened and are waiting to wake up from some terrible nightmare. When you started your thread my immediate thought was that you were looking for valid reasons to stop the divorce, a divorce that deep down inside you probably do not want. Just like Saffy and Wisey you come across to me as an incredible woman with a huge heart, a woman who is doing her best to be strong during the worst time of her life. And you know what, you are doing a great job. Please don't allow yourself to be brought down by negative posts. x

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Shakti · 31/07/2011 16:55

My friend, who had the expensive divorce, is nearly three years down the one. She has no children (another source of grief for her) and still has days when she hides under her duvet. Thankfully they are becoming fewer and further apart but I will never again underestimate the sheer will and strength t takes for someone whose marriage has broken to just keep going! I am proud of her for what she is achieving - you are fantastic!

The sleeping pattern thing is a real bugger though (again she does the nap and then awake at night thing). It is so hard to get intrusive and unwelcome thought out of your mind at bed time. She has found this to be really helpful

www.amazon.co.uk/Can-Mend-Your-Broken-Heart/dp/0593055772/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1312127671&sr=8-1&tag=mumsnet&ascsubtag=mnforum-21

Yes I know! I can't stand the chap and his manner drives me nuts if I am unfortunate enough to hear him on the radio! It has some good visualisations suggested in it though and might fit well with your meditation?

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Kaelle · 31/07/2011 23:38

Can you believe GG still hasn't called his girls??? I'm fighting the urge not to text him. He's meant to be looking at flat/houses this weekend. Why can he not just be in touch with them - two have their own phones....? All three DD's edgy this evening. Poor DD5yrs is getting it full throttle from the older two, trying to mother her. Poor thing just doesn't get a break. Not only does she have me being a mother, but her sisters are acting as mothers as well. I did too much shouting tonight, and got accused of protecting DD5yrs, and not disciplining her. When did DD's earn the right to start criticising how I mother siblings? Poor DD5yrs, who's normally absolute sunshine is getting it upside down and sideways for every little thing by her currently well meaning, but completely intolerant sisters. I honestly just needed a break this evening, and just got pissed off that there was no one to relieve me. Why does he just get to swoon around, denying all parental responsibilities while I get pushed to all limits of patience, AND suffer the various "intolerances" - and that's a nice word - without someone to back me up? Can I just say again that I do not want to be a single parent DAMN IT. (and by the way, I'm not a prude, I just happen to like the word better than fuck. For some reason, it resonates and gives me great satisfaction saying it out loud....)

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Kaelle · 31/07/2011 23:42

Shakti - ordered, tho Paul McK can honestly drive me nuts....I love meditation but hypnotherapy leaves me wondering...I do honestly believe that there's so much more we can tap into so that some of these books can be seriously good. I'll let you know. x

I managed without a nap today and it's now almost midnight. Wish me a good night's sleep. It's going to be a long day tomz.

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Shakti · 01/08/2011 00:13

My friend (so clumsy perhaps i should just give her a pseudonym) ignored any suggestion of hypnosis. Instead she liked what she called the idiots guide to thinking about the shitty stuff her stbx husband did. Nothing earth shattering, all stuff you would think of yourself if you had the headspace!

As for the children driving you nuts I have nothing to say. I think that is a major role in their lives. Hope you sleep well.

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drfayray · 01/08/2011 00:23

Kaelle, Yes! I never asked to be a single parent either. I did not want this situation but it is HERE now..and I have to deal with it the best way I can.

ABCKF came back yesterday and was so remote. And the kids just disappeared into their rooms. Usually they only go there at bedtime. He hardly rings the children and it is this lack of interest that makes me go insane with rage!!! Angry

I know about the napping! I am trying hard to stop it but will have to next week when I start my new job. But I cannot sleep at night and am exhausted in the day and am desperate for a nap in the afternoon.

Once it is all over; the marriage finished legally and he is out of my life, only then will I get some peace. I hope so anyway.

I think you are doing a marvellous job! You are in strife YET you still have time to post on other threads...thank you.

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mummytime · 01/08/2011 07:14

Okay you are one month in, you are doing fine! Don't try to be superwoman. Being a "good enough" parent is good enough! BTW my 12 year old criticises how I parent my 15 year old a lot, the old two also try to parent the youngest (and try to baby her). Oh and then there are all the other dynamics, the older two compare themselves to the youngest, and feel awful about anything she can do better than they could at her age , the youngest feels awful about anything she can't do as well as them now.
I would talk to your Sol about getting your finances disentangled asap. Also if he is as bad with money as you say, I would definitely be seeing if I could get the CSA to collect the money at source, rather than dare let him get his hands on it first. (My mother had to do something similar in the dark ages, although it was far more complex then.)

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Wisedupwoman · 01/08/2011 07:22

I honestly just needed a break this evening, and just got pissed off that there was no one to relieve me.

Goes with the territory, I'm afraid K. I was the same but actually it didn't last all that long as I kept remembering how he was actually the source of all the arguments that DD and I had before he left and for a few weeks afterwards. But when I began to recover, so DD and I have begun to settle down and I don't resent PTM for not being here to pick up the slack - because he wasn't doing that anyway. GG wasn't there either, was he, except you still had a relationship with him you thought you could rely on. That's the only (only, she says) thing that has fundamentally changed, your capacity to cope hasn't, your DD's, I'm sure would have had their moments with each other which in a different context would have gone under your radar, but you're more sensitive now to everything.

Your DD's will settle once they see you have, I promise, and you will find yourself wishing he was there to share it less and less. I'm sure that these bolters tell themselves that they haven't left their children, they just left their DW's - but that's an excuse, and a poor one, for just ditching their families and trying out a responsibility free life. But it will catch up with him, and he will have to make the choice at some stage to either put his DD's before himself or deny them the relationship they need with him. All you can do is be there if he doesn't step up, or tolerate your feelings if he wants to be a major part of their lives but not yours iyswim. Now, here am I sitting here telling you this as if I've got it all sewn up, which of course I haven't.

I know that PTM wants to be more involved with DD, but I absolutely refuse to facilitate that beyond not stopping their seeing each other. She is old enough to make her own arrangements at 16, she doesn't want me setting up formal access, she doesn't want to feel at the mercy of arrangments she has not been a part of deciding, and I'm glad actually. It means she is in control of her own relationship with PTM and he has to settle for what he can get.

I know you don't want to be a single parent, that's another of the injustices of the situation, someone else suddenly takes that choice away and you have to live with it. But you really are doing brilliantly in awful circumstances trying to hold everything together and deal with the abandonment you feel as a partner Sad.

IMO these bonds we make with life partners are resonant with those of our primary attachment figures whom we depended entirely on for giving and keeping us alive, so it's no surprise that as an adult we are transported back to that first experience of the fear of abandonment - except we now have to deal with our own and our DC's in the context of their issues and our own. Hope that makes sense.

Keep going K, let us know how the tape goes, I'd be interested to see if it's helpful and if it is, I'll try it myself.

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barbiegrows · 01/08/2011 11:18

DD's are always on my mind as they are with me 24/7. I want the best for all of us, and have managed to get them through a lot this past year. DD13 is at one of the best schools in the country and managed to hold her own, academically and emotionally, despite being terribly homesick, pissed off with GG and worried about me.

Think about this Kaelle, perhaps if as a result of a poor divorce settlement, she would have to go to the local school she would be happier? Sorry if what I say 'hurt' you, it isn't meant to, I'm just helping you to look at this in perspective.

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Saffysmum · 01/08/2011 12:56

Hi Special K

You are being too hard on yourself, after all it's early days. The girls will settle down, but it is hard knowing that their dad is being so remote. Even though he wasn't at home much, and you were the main carer, you still knew that he would at some point be coming home, so naturally you're resenting that he's doing what he wants, when he wants.

Actually though, and I bet you know this deep down, you're the winner here. You have three gorgeous girls (who drive you crazy, as they do), and they will see you emerge as a strong capable mum - because that's what you are, and always have been. You will in time be happy again, and they will in turn bounce off you're happiness and project it back to you, so you'll feed off each other's good moods. My kids had a lousy year last year, because I was so, so unhappy trying to change myself to try to make a man love me again. As soon as he got home from work or a business trip, a cloud descended over us - I reverted back to type, (withdrawn, walking on eggshells), and kids and I tiptoed around him, scared to push him into a mood. The kids spent too much time in their rooms. I spent too much time in a different room. Once he left, the cloud left also. I reverted back to my previous self, and the kids responded likewise. You are all still finding your feet. Things will improve.

As Wisey said, none of us asked for this situation. But we are all strong women, and we will adapt and cope. I promise.

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Kaelle · 01/08/2011 18:38

MummyT - Thanks for reminding me that these difficulties are just part of being a mom, with three girls: age related dynamics. It's strange though, I just have so little tolerance of their bickering, way less than I used to...and it seems to be more frequent and determined and annoying anyway. I do understand why...and I still know that a lot of it is down to me. And now for the blindingly obvious...how is it that I'm the one who gets hurt, he's the one who leaves to go live in a bubble which doesn't include us, and I have to somehow find the energy to be sooo cool, so strong, so together, always say/do the right thing, always have the right answers, am not given any slack by DD's who love me loads, but want me to be even better (they sound like my mother!!).

[phone rang, thought would be GG, stupid recording instead and DAMN, he still hasn't called - another day gone by. Can I stick by my resolution not to text him something, even dignified, or maybe name and shame him to anyone remotely close to him??? This is another AA moment....one day at a time...]

Wisey, thanks for the thoughtful support. I really need it right now. I do feel abandoned - I just can't deal with the reality. I just cannot accept that it's all him....and here, I see/hear you Saffy. Wanting to really come to terms with how I might have contributed, being on best behaviour for the past year etc etc etc. Massive stress... Now, I can't seem to see straight and don't know where things are going. It's summer and all DD's are lively and present and I just can't get my head around contacting sol. A part of me wants to file to gain control of the situation, and another part of me wants to say....well other than his absence, things really haven't changed, so why force them to???

Just a note about "strong" women a RL BF said to me a long time ago that we were both victims of the "curse of the responsible child"...... No one worries about you and nobody thinks you might actually need them, cuz you're always so apparently sorted and together. But what happens in a case like this when all you really want is to NOT be responsible???? Do I somehow put out a vibe that I don't NEED??? I sure feel like I'm screaming my need...How could I have given GG the impression that I would get on without him, that I would look after DD's without him, while he just runs away. DAMN - have you tried saying it out loud? It really is a great word!

Second phone call, GG......

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mummytime · 02/08/2011 08:50

Okay two pieces of advice. 1) vent here on MN when you need to, it can provide great support, but its safe venting anyway.
2) Start to cultivate RL friends, who you can have a girly chat, vent a bit, just chill while their kids "play" with yours.
Stuck with the kids 24/7 can stress all of us, ask anyone with kids on summer holidays. So find a way to give you all breaks from each other. If only booking them in for a summer sports day or something.

But you are winning, as you have your lovely girls.

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Wisedupwoman · 02/08/2011 09:26

K, good morning.

My favourite word is 'woman'. It's defined as an adult, female human being and I like to add the word 'doing', because it's in the behaviour IMO. This is what you do every single day, despite the invitation to collapse.

i have cleaned my car inside and it's lovely. taking it down the car wash later. PTM's car is full of filth and rubbish and he never keeps it clean.

then i'll wield the hoover around for a bit, tidy up and have coffee with lovely RL friend. later i'm going to buy wool and knitting needles, ask the woman in the wool shop to show me how to cast on and knit something simple (and she will because she is a woman too). she may have a broken heart too, but she'll be doing the necessary to get on with her life, who knows? PTM would never ask anyone for help because he knows everything there is worth knowing.

i'll speak to DD later on when she phones. i'll ask her about her camp and be all enthusiastic with her even though i miss her. PTM was a miserable sod on sunday when he collected her.

You can see where i'm going with this can't you K?

Somehow life goes on in the midst of loss. You pass people by on the street and wtf, they act as if neither they, nor you, can see the things you are each struggling with because it can feel like your pain is in show and no-one cares really. But they do, you have much support here, your DD's are there for you, you have RL friends who will see you through this and out the other side. Because you are a strong woman who can deal with this, are dealing with this. The best way to knock the 'I am a coper but I'm not coping' thing on the head, is to ask for help. I have learned this only in the last few months and my life in so much the more enriched because people have been so, so kind.

So do it, do it more, and do it often.
Wisey X

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Wisedupwoman · 02/08/2011 09:28

sorry about the typos!!

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Kaelle · 03/08/2011 00:16

MummyT and Wisey, yes to RL GF. Never in my life here in the UK have I worked so hard, especially this past year, on my RL Gf. HOWEVER, you don't have the same feedback...I have a family cousin, my age, and her 11 yr old daughter here for the whole week and it's been brilliant.

So GG called last night....as I posted. I was uber icy cold when I handed the phone to dd 11yrs. Anyway when DD13yrs was chatting, I told her that I wanted to chat with him when they all had.....so before DD 11yrs handed the phone to me...we're talking Monday, she sheepishly told me that daddy had called both Sat and Sun and that ooooops, she had forgotten to tell me. What she had managed to do was to tell dad that all DG's would be there that evening. Fab.

Stlll, I have no idea where I'm going and have little energy right now to post on others' threads`; Wisey, Beforeand AFtter, Saffy (you simiarly gorgeous woman-I can't even find your thread)Dr fay etc....

Raw post.

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