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Relationships

Should I stay in my marriage for the kids?

148 replies

GeorgeBaker · 09/09/2010 21:17

Hi,

I am a 36 y/old man. I recently had a very brief, very intence affair with someone, it has all ended very messily, in that my wife found out and its become a painful situation all round, involving lots of people.

Please feel free at this stage to direct any verbal abuse at me, I'm kinda getting used to it, although I totally deserve it.

My wife and I have 2 kids together and I love my kids more than anything in the world. I know though that I don't love my wife anymore. She is a wonderful person, attractive, good fun, great mother and is great in so many ways. However, I have fallen out of love with her and have for a while.

My question though is should we stay together for the sake of the kids? Is it better to have 2 parents who love their kids but are apart, than have 2 parents who live under the same roof but the love has gone?

Hope there is some sense out there, cause right now i don't know whether I am coming or going.

George

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WhenwillIfeelnormal · 14/09/2010 10:41

George don't make it an E mail. Send her a letter but don't finish it yet....

Your wife possible feels that the only way she can hold her head up in the playground and with her friends and family is by ending her marriage and taking back some control. In fact it is precisely what I advise people to do if their H is dithering about his feelings post-affair.

A huge amount of hurt pride, as well as hurt and shock, is what is galvanising your wife at the moment. She possibly feels that you are only trying to get back with her because of the DCs, the finances and the status of being married with DCs. She cannot believe at the moment that you love her for her as AF says.

This is going to take a lot of time and patience on your part, so don't give up.

One of the things you might want to offer is a completely fresh start somewhere else, if that's what she wants. You actually need to offer anything - no change would be too extreme if it means that you can stay together.

As AF says, you need to be sure that you would be staying for her and no other reason. If you're sure now that you love her and don't want to lose her, because of her then that's what you must say, over and over again.

You need to speak to her family and friends too and explain yourself, but not as a way of persuading your wife and getting at her through them - but as a way of apologising properly to them for the enormous hurt caused, acknowledging that affairs hurt far more people than just the immediate family.

I think at the moment, your wife's feelings include wounded pride, shock, anger, disgust and shame. The latter might seem illogical, but because ill-informed people make judgements about why affairs happen, many people actually feel ashamed when their spouse has an affair. The very fact that she is wondering why she wasn't enough for you means that she has absorbed this message.

Like so many people, she has probably been brought up with a set of beliefs about infidelity - that it only happens when someone wasn't getting enough from their marriage, that they are always about sex, that a spouse can keep their partner from straying, that a man won't have an affair if he is "happy at home" - the list goes on and all this will be churning around in her head.

Every pitying look she is getting in the playground, she will be interpreting as judging her and not you. Even members of her own family might be saying things like this - and this is all going to make her feel worse about herself - and therefore you. Worse still, OW and her cronies in the playground might well be casting aspersions about her and her sexual competence. It is all horrible and she will want to do something - anything - that will help her feel back in control and a strong, assertive woman who refuses to be treated this way.

I hope she has got a wiser soul somewhere in her life who will urge her to separate all these feelings and come to a rational decision, based on the facts and not the myths. Someone who will manage to convince her that everything she may have believed about infidelity is nonsense and that there was literally nothing she could have done to prevent your infidelity. That this isn't a reflection on her at all.

That person might gently persuade her that all the understandable feelings of hurt pride and anger often get in the way of a sound decision-making process. That it is better to reflect and work out whether if she tries to forgive, you will do this again (she will be hearing lots of stories about once a cheater, always a cheater), whether she genuinely loves you, whether you want her and not the package that comes with her - and somewhere in all this, what's best for the DCs, acknowledging that she shouldn't be staying with you for their sake alone, just as we advised you upthread.

A good counsellor will be more objective perhaps, especially someone who understands infidelity and signs up to the message of a wonderful book called Not Just Friends, by Dr. Shirley Glass - could you suggest that your wife gets some solo counselling with someone like that?

Once the shock has worn off, most betrayed spouses realise that they have invested a lot in their marriages and that they owe it to themselves (although they will say it is only for the DCs) to try to forgive and get past this. But this has got to come from her and you should not be suggesting that she would be in any way at fault if she calls time on the marriage - accept that you did that yourself, when you had your affair.

You need to create the conditions for her to work again on your marriage, while allowing her to get back her dignity and self-respect. This is where the avowed love for her comes in - and doing everything in your power to make her life easier at the moment; showing your love in actions. It is also where the offered house move comes in ("I would live anywhere as long as it's with you. I don't care about my job, what sort of house we live in, as long as it's with you") and by falling on your sword with her allies.

Have you also been in the playground yourself since discovery - and put people straight? Have you put OW straight, too? Told her that you deeply regret the relationship and that you love your wife deeply - that this wasn't about your wife at all? Told the OW that you will never again befriend someone who wishes your marriage harm?

What betrayed partners look for is a set of actions that back up the words. Strong, decisive actions too - as opposed to lots of hand-wringing and hair shirts, some of which smack of self-pity and self-absorption.

This is a long game George. But fight for your wife. Get her respect back for you and challenge yourself to do things she never thought you were capable of.

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GeorgeBaker · 14/09/2010 11:01

LC, thanks, I will do. And sincerely, sorry for what has happened to you. I have seen other friends go through this but very much as an outsider; being on the inside now gives it a whole other perspective.
I am not motivated in this to get the 'best for myself', whatever happens its the kids that are the most important and genuinely my wifes welfare as well.
DW is naturally sending lots of hurtful texts and emails my way; it would be easy for me to get my back up and say fuck you, but i will never lose sight of the fact that it was me that did this; ok my wife was very off with me this last year for various reasons, but i'm not the sort of arsehole to say 'she drove me to do it'.

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GeorgeBaker · 14/09/2010 11:08

AF, no idea if DW uses MN; i haven't told her i'm posting here. I think she would think it was weird tbh.
No, GB it is a pseudonym.

Yes, OW is that. She was a friend at first, she is attractive to me, but she painted me a picture of who she was and her life that now is proven to be so false; having read that article that WWIFN sent, she is definately the spiderwoman type. Yes how utterly stupid i have been.

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GeorgeBaker · 14/09/2010 11:10

TalleyRand, i was genuinely going to finish it with the OW. The deceit and lying and guilt was adding to the depression i was feeling already and of course I knew it was wrong.

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WhenwillIfeelnormal · 14/09/2010 11:16

George I did wonder about whether this had properly finished before discovery. Can you prove that you were going to end it with OW? Kept any E mails/texts to that effect? Your DW will be wondering whether she merely interrupted something, you see. What did you tell OW after discovery?

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GeorgeBaker · 14/09/2010 11:23

WWIFN, sound excellent fantastic advice as ever.
I will send her a letter. And yes she does feel shame, shame that I have brought this on the family, brought our normally good name to dust, shame that we are the talk of the school.

I havent been back yet, i'm in exile at the moment but have managed to speak to a couple of people to put them straight; enough know that the OW was bad news. I have spoken to OW briefly and told her what I think, another issue is that OW's H is going round telling people as well and buying the myth from OW about what happened; I need to put him straight aswell, but he won't speak to me.

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GeorgeBaker · 14/09/2010 11:28

I can't prove it as such, so that comes down to trust which has obviously been blown.
I told OW that i didn't want anything more to do with her, that i didn't think my wife would ever forgive, or take me back, but that I didn't OW anyway.

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littlecritter · 14/09/2010 11:29

George, I too was banned from speaking to OW's H. He is so desperate to hang on to her at any cost that he can't afford me making waves. I don't care and have nothing to say to either of them. They will come unravelled sooner or later but that is not my problem. Don't waste your time and energy on what they or other people think. You know the truth and if you genuinely love your wife then you must prove it by your actions to her.

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GeorgeBaker · 14/09/2010 11:40

LC, yes they will come unstuck at some point, its not the first time OW has done this and OW's H does seem to forgive everytime or maybe he doesn't know about the others. I dont want to stir it up, but rather to ensure that OW's H knows that it was her that did the persuing and that I am not interested in her. They are telling people that I am after her still and making out that I was so into her and want her.
I just want them to shut up so it doesn't make this any worse for DW than it is already.

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AnyFucker · 14/09/2010 11:42

I am sure you want them to shut up

However you cannot control what other people do...you can only control what you do

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WhenwillIfeelnormal · 14/09/2010 11:48

Yes it does sound like the OW's H is falling for the "I was chased, so it's not my fault" script that lots of unfaithful parties enact. Let's hope that privately, he will realise that this really doesn't cut it and that his wife had a choice just the same as you.

Unfortunately a lot of people (women included) simply cannot believe that a woman can take the predatory role in an affair, which is sexist nonsense and simply isn't the reality of life in 2010.

It's a shame you can't prove that this was coming to an end, but your wife might be able to recall some behaviour on your part that verifies this claim to some extent - you appearing to be even more stressed and unhappy, for example. Try to recall these things George e.g. "Remember when we bought the new bits of uniform, how stressed you said I was?"

Are you saying your wife has banned you from the playground, or that you can't face it yourself? Really think about that one. Facing people and putting them straight will I suspect, be very important to your wife, as long as you don't cause more damage while you're there.

Have you actually tried to talk to the OW's H? Facing him and apologising to him, will show in actions that you are truly sorry for the hurt caused. If the OW in my situation had ever tried to apologise to me, or expressed regret for the hurt caused to me and my DCs, it actually would have helped enormously.

It does sound a bit as though you are putting people straight somewhat remotely, hoping that the message will spread that way. Taking decisive action, that will put you in the firing line and in situations that are horrendously uncomfortable, might just persuade your wife that you mean business. I'm afraid regardless of what we say, what people think matters a great deal to someone in your wife's position. This is what I mean about providing the conditions from which she can recapture her dignity.

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GeorgeBaker · 14/09/2010 12:11

Actually the OW's H is blaming himself for it now! That he was somehow to blame for this happening.

I am actually away at present staying with friends. DW doesn't want me going near the school which is understandable as that is where it all started.
Yes have called and texted OW's H but he wont answer / return my call. Am happy to meet him and speak, although he wants to punch me, but do want to show to DW that I mean business.

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AnyFucker · 14/09/2010 12:13

GB...how are you getting this information on what is happening in OW's marriage ?

I thought the husband wouldn't speak to you ??

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superv1xen · 14/09/2010 12:17

hi george.

havent read the rest of the replies because i didnt want to be influenced them IYSWIM.

DON'T STAY. You are 36, thats too young to be stuck in a loveless marriage. the kids will pick up on it and it will make them unhappy and uneasy too. Also, if you are not in love with your wife and don't fancy her then you owe it to her to let her go and let her find someone who does love and fancy her.

and TBH the moment you fell for someone else (even if it was just a lust thing) shows that your marriage wasnt right.

good luck. if you want to private message me do feel free because i have been through something similar.x

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WhenwillIfeelnormal · 14/09/2010 12:21

Angry Oh that's all we need, a poster who says that infidelity is always a sign that something's wrong with the marriage...I despair. Angry

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AnyFucker · 14/09/2010 12:30

now now, WWIFN

as you said, it is a commonly-held misapprension and, I am sure, correct in some cases

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superv1xen · 14/09/2010 12:38

WWIFN i am not articulate and good at writing things like you are and i do think lots of your advice is great, but, sorry, i just dont believe that a partner would stray in a happy marriage. i have been there and so have lots of people i know.

oh and i also know an experienced relate counsellor (friend of my mums) who says people dont usually stray in happy marriages. i am blissfully happy in my relationship, love and fancy my DP like crazy = hence, wouldnt even look at another bloke.

just my opinion.

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GeorgeBaker · 14/09/2010 12:43

AF, because they are talking to mutual friends and DW is hearing it and relaying it to me.
I want to tell OW's H that it was a mistake, that she pursued me and caught me at a bad time in my life, that i have absolutely no interest in his wife and to basically try and get them to stop nround telling everyone and involving the school.

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GeorgeBaker · 14/09/2010 12:52

superv1xen, you should read the other comments.
My original post was written with heightened emotions after a particularly bad argument; there is / was a lot of love there, sure after a few years we all tend to 'settle' and a marriage doesn't retain it lustful beginnings, but there is love there and i do fancy her still. I have clearly messed up in a big big way, driven by various problems, issues and depression over the last year. Now I am looking for ways to try and somehow put this right. DW hates me right now and maybe always will, but I dont want to think I didn't try and accept the fact that we will just end.
There is plenty to fight for, not just for the DC's but I am not expecting any quick remedies.

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AnyFucker · 14/09/2010 12:52

Look, you don't occupy the moral high ground here

This what I am trying to get across to you

You let these people into your life, and into your marriage

You cannot make them conveniently shut up, because it now suits you

I expect you didn't want OW to "shut up" when you were having your nasty little affair

I am not convinced it is purely for your DW's sake that you want them to disappear...or at least it isn't your primary concern.

You can't "tell" OW's DH anything at all, really. He obviously doesn't want to listen to you, and you cannot blame him. I think he should...but it is his choice.

If you want me to go away, I will. I am not sure why I am still on your thread, other than you seem a nice bloke who has made a really very stupid mistake and you are still making it all about you, even now.

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WhenwillIfeelnormal · 14/09/2010 13:04

superv1xen you are entitled to your opinion, as is the Relate counsellor (who at least qualified it with a "usually") but honestly, read the thread here - it might help you to challenge your beliefs a bit. I understand why you hold them and your Relate counsellor story doesn't surprise me in the least, which is why I advise people to choose their counsellor very carefully; some do far more harm than good.

George have you thought about writing to the H? And in the process, tell him that infidelity is never the betrayed spouse's fault? Regarding the latter, perhaps writing it from the point of view that you have taken total responsibility for the affair and that your wife is without fault entirely, because it was your choice to respond to the offer of an affair. Can you in the letter, offer to see him in the company of his wife, where you would be willing to explain to them both, side by side, why this affair happened?

Make sure you extol the virtues of your wife in this letter too - he won't be able to help compare the contrasting attitudes of you, with his wife's.

I have a feeling that OW really won't want to take you up on this offer, because that will mean some of her lies will unravel, but it might make the H think again about the story he is being told.

Unfortunately, his reaction is all to common in men; IME cuckolded men blame themselves far more than they should - and this leads them to make some very bad decisions about their marriages and the continuing fidelity of their spouse.

Also, what have you told your wife you are prepared to do in setting the record straight? I don't want you to go against any of her wishes in all this, but if she feels that you would genuinely be willing to put yourself on the line here, it might help matters, even if she decides she doesn't want to inflame the situation. At the moment, she probably feels she has no voice - as must you, with all this nasty gossip doing the rounds.

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WhenwillIfeelnormal · 14/09/2010 13:09

And FWIW, I read it that you want this to stop as an act of belated protection towards your wife. You don't have to face these people every day; she does.

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GeorgeBaker · 14/09/2010 13:17

AF, the primary concern is my DW but also DC.
I dont want this to affect him at school any more than it will do already. Sure, i know you'll say 'should have thought about this before' and of course i should, but thats not to say i cant take actions to try and minimise the damage now.
DW actually wants me to say something to them.
Personally I would rather not speak to them at all, but DW wants me to speak to him to try and nip this in the bud and let OW's H know some truths about this, so he's not assuming OW is some innocent party in this.
I have been selfish is so many ways recently, but my intentions now are to support DW in any way I can

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AnyFucker · 14/09/2010 13:20

ok, if this is at the request of your wife, then fair enough

can I stay ? Smile

WWIFN do quite a good job of the good cop/bad cop routine Wink

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tortoiseonthehalfshell · 14/09/2010 13:24

People in happy marriages absolutely stray.

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