Sex without true consent

[oldenough2knowbetter]

A couple of recent threads have indicated that many women have experienced sex without their consent at some point in their lives, often with partners/ ex partners. I am curious as to how ubiquitous this is, which might indicate how seriously to take it if it happens.

Please would MNers post below with a simple "yes" or "no" to the question:

"Have you ever had sex without your consent?".

This could be because you were very drunk, because you were asleep (!), because you just didn't feel like it. You should only answer "yes" if it should have been clear to the man that you were NOT consenting at that moment, in that place.

You can add explanatory details if you want, but just a yes or no would be great too.

Mouseface, that is horrid for you.

I guess it tells me that my experience is not so unique though, and in a way that is reassuring.

I dunno what it proves. Perhaps if lots of people write something similar it shows my OH (and anyone else who cares to look) that these things happen and that it is not (tragically) so very exceptional.

Yes. More than once in different situations. Plus VERY many attempts deflected at the last minute. I've posted in greater detail on more discursive threads - however, I've reason to believe the true figure is WAY higher than 14%.

Of course it is worth getting indignant about! It's a shocking insult to the mind and body, even if you get out of it safely. We are socialised to 'not get too upset about it' if uninjured physically ... to some extent, I feel it is "one of those things that can happen" like being mugged, burgled or road-raged. But the fact that it is so prevalent is a despicable indictment on persistent anti-woman societies like ours: you're more likely to get your mugger convicted than your rapist

Have you read Abi Grant's "Words Can Describe"?

For me it doesn't prove anything, I don't know about helping anyone, but after years and years of bottling things up, keeping 'secrets' and thinking there was something wrong with me and I just got what I deserved, having someone be a 'witness', knowing I am not alone, getting all the crap, toxic festering shite out of my head, is bit by bit helping me understand a little more about myself, however painful the process.

I don't suppose it changes anything. And there is some stuff that will only ever stay with my counsellor I made the analogy once that it is like having food poisoning and being repeatedly sick to clear your body of the poison. I don't want it all in my head anymore.

''I am seeking to calibrate my own normality meter.''
I really relate to this. Not so much for who I am now, but for the person who went through the stuff and thought that it was just the way of things, when in some circumstance, no-one took the stance to defend 'her'.

Taking the blame, the responsibility, even as a child. When someone should have stood to her defence.

Your current H sounds like a good man, old enough...

I think MN is sometimes a harsh environment.
If I am understanding OPs original message and subseqeunt posts she has been raped twice and "in one of my relationships ... we went on to have a great relationship "

she's trying to work out where her experiences are - is this Lisbeth Salander, way out on the extreme end, or simply 'ho-hum it happens to everyone, love'

or somewhere inbetween.

i think she could have had more supportive responses

OP, when you first posted, it just seemed you were curious.

Sorry you have been through a hard time. There are loads of threads running at the moment about this kind of thing, that suggest that it is something far too many women experience.

But however many have or haven't, it doesn't make it any easier for each individual.

It's never too late to get help you know.

stubbornhubby wrote: "or simply 'ho-hum it happens to everyone, love'"

There's something in this, OP. It happens - not to everybody, but to very many (men as well as women: fewer men, but the shame & confusion are even worse.) Each time, a piece of the survivor becomes injured, often permanently. Because of the secrecy that still surrounds the crime of rape, survivors are left feeling they may as well get on with things. The fact that it is so prevalent can make you feel you should just get over it. The fact that the crime is difficult to prove adds to the feeling.

After my first time (I was a virgin, too; it was a first-date rape), I was lucky that the older women I worked with were outraged on my behalf, and sympathetic. There are plenty of people who'd find it easier to sympathise with your burglary than your rape. This fact adds to the sense that you "shouldn't" mind or make a fuss.

But you should find a way to discuss it, until you are 100% convinced that:
A] You were insulted, assaulted and the target of a crime;
B] You are justified in feeling as hurt & angry as you feel;
C] You cannot possibly have caused the crime against you;
D] Rape is about power, not sex;
E] There are some bad people in this world;
F] Bad people do bad things to good people;
G] There are more good people than bad.

I would like to thank the ladies who worked at the Ship Inn, Richmond in 1975 for the above :)

Slightly off-topic, I have found that "Stop, you're raping me!" is often enough to terminate the assault.

Thanks everyone, that is helpful and much of it makes sense. I am beginning to see that although not unusual, it is definitely unacceptable and does have a lasting impact. In between times I have read some of the other threads (like the one on marital rape) and it is great to be able to get an idea that one is neither a freak (for it happening in the first place) nor oversensitive (for it being upsetting). In RL, I had never talked about my experiences before meeting my current partner and it is through him that I have begun to see this all differently and to come to terms with it rather than bottling it up. I am so sorry that so many posters have experienced similar. I worry for my daughters. I will also show the thread to my OH so that he can stop feeling so outraged on my behalf and so sorry for me as he will be able to see that it happens to lots of women (unfortunately).

I wonder if it is a few men doing this to lots of women or whether it can truly be that 14% (or whatever) of men are potential rapists. There are certainly some decent human beings out there too - male and female.

IfGraceAsks: you were brave to tell people about it, and I admire you for that.

oldenough, I want to apologise for my snippy reply to you

I still think your approach was a bit "off" (can't put my finger on why, but others have), but I hope my response didn't make you feel worse

there are lots of threads about this very subject at the moment, some of them very active, so I didn't understand why you didn't contribute to one of those

however, you deserve as much validation/support as the person who came at it more "softly" (for want of a better word), so please accept a glass of rose from my very chilled, post-work Friday bottle and celebrate your lovely OH

AnyFucker, that's no problem - no need to apologise. I do have a bad habit of not striking the right tone and should have been more open up front.

You are right, my OH is indeed a very special man - I kissed a lot of frogs on the way

didn't we all ?...

I think I connected with the OP's approach because it is how I sometimes manage to deal with things that happen to me. Almost detached. It makes it less real. I find 'emotions' hard sometimes , or acknowledging feelings.

Mittz, I know what you mean.