My short list and research

[anthonys]

After quite a few months of researching and testing I've come to my final short list of pushchairs. Thought I'd post it in order to seek some final advice but also hopefully it will help others. I have waited longer than I thought I would as there were a number of models due for release that I wanted to see. Baby due next month now!

The main requirements:

Light weight for use on and off London buses
Reversible seat for the flexibility
£500 budget (approx)
4 wheels for maximum stability
Decent storage basket
Easily folded (prefer with seat on)
Suitable for newborn in winter
Relatively narrow and agile for navigating city streets, small apartments, taking on holidays (car boots and planes), cafes etc
Built to last

And lastly .. be able to test it in a showroom in London which I thought would be easy, but it wasn't for all the candidates. I'm still not sure whether I take the risk and buy something unseen. At the end of the day most of these pushchairs meet my requirements and I'd probably be happy with any. I just started to nitpick in order to cross some off!

The final list (after a lot of reading, weight with seat and cost is approx with carrycot):

Bugaboo Cameleon (9.3kg £770), Uppababy Vista (11.5kg £600) ? both a bit too bulky and over budget
Bugaboo Bee (8.5kg £560) ? newborn carrycot doesn't offer much protection from the weather and lots of reports of faulty wheels
Babystyle Oyster (10.5kg £350) ? reports of poor build quality and warranty not as long as others
Graco Evo (9.5kg £380) ? iCandy cherry seems to have the edge for my needs at a similar cost
Silvercross Surf (11.3kg £600) ? badly designed storage basket and over budget
iCandy Strawberry (12.3kg £545) ? too bulky when folded
Easywalker June (9.9kg £600 without cot) ? over budget and unable to find anywhere that stocks in London

The short list:

iCandy Cherry (9.8kg £460)? can't fold with seat and Cruz just beats it in features if a little more expensive
Jane Muum (11kg £450) ? can't find stock in London and Evo has better reviews so it seems like the Evo would be a better option if I take the gamble on an unseen model
Babyjogger Versa (11.9kg £520)? really nicely built but otherwise similar features to Cruz but a bit heavier, larger and more expensive
Mutsy Evo (11.9kg £400) ? been unable to view ? on paper it looks good though suspect maybe too bulky?
Uppababy Cruz (9.9kg £500) ? meets all the requirements plus it's got a nice high position, it's just a little ugly :)

So looks like the Cruz wins (just) and may put an order in this week but just wanted to see what the consensus was around taking the gamble on the Mutsy, it's £100 cheaper and think it's a nicer design.. or any other model on my short list for that matter.

Thanks anthonys (and so sorry to hijack your thread!) - why more practical, is it because of the basket, or other things too?

Yes, the bee is a struggle to carry everything on. The biggest complaint she had about it was the lack of storage. The Cruz actually felt lighter too, plus the Cruz has a proper carrycot if that's what you prefer.

mm, makes sense, I do value lots of storage as I don't want to have to carry stuff on my back and I want to be able to do the odd supermarket run on foot if poss. I am off to a pram shop at the weekend and will have to see how much of a pain I find the tall Cruz handle and whether it's worth living with for the sake of the basket. Interesting that the Cruz felt lighter even though it's not.

The carrycot on the Cruz is lovely, but not overnightable so in some ways the Micralite Toro carrycot on the Bee would be better as it is overnight suitable - but then it's not made to fit so possible safety issues as Tiggy says. Argh.

How much do you all consider your DHs/DPs' views on these things? Asking as DH really dislikes the wobbliness of the Bee... so that could be another factor in the Cruz's favour ... unless I ignore him!

I know several people who dislike the wobbliness of the bee but live with it because there just isn't anything that is a real alternative of that size. Grrrr

No worries anthony - just thought I would put the carrycot idea out there! Totally understand that you've got your shortlist now though ;)

minipie I have to say that I've never found storage to be an issue - in fact I'd say it was one of the biggest baskets I've had on a buggy (and I've had a fair few!). The only issue being that you can't put huge things in the basket from the back, because of the strange black bit? (Hard to explain!) Shows it in <a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=back+of+a+bugaboo+bee+plus+with+basket&hl=en&biw=1024&bih=485&tbm=isch&tbnid=MqWh-abJR4RzEM:&imgrefurl=www.babyandco.com/itemdetl.php/itemprcd/Bugaboo-Bee-Plus-Cocoon&docid=zeIX2IYfgR3cOM&imgurl=www.babyandco.com/imagprod/imaglarg/BUG_BEE-PLUS-YELLOW-COCOON.jpg&w=784&h=1000&ei=5n1sUNeLM5Gr0AWI2oFw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=784&vpy=118&dur=6&hovh=254&hovw=199&tx=164&ty=168&sig=113234647382204962247&page=1&tbnh=139&tbnw=108&start=0&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:5,s:0,i:83" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">this picture. Not a major issue though - just put things in from the front.
Its really secure - it clips properly into the car seat adaptors the same way that the carseat would and the same way that it would on the Micralite buggy. Its actually quite high up because the adaptors have little 'legs' on them to boost it up a bit. Agreed that the seat is quite low and laid flat with the cocoon (for a newborn) I think would be too low.
Just had a look and there are some brilliant pics here and here from the found of Bee+ +Toro!
Did you test drive the Bee when it was empty or have you pushed a child in one? I only ask because the buggy sort of works better for a heavier child! I remember putting a friends newborn in mine and wondering why it didn't push as well, and it was because the baby wasn't heavy enough to keep the front 2 wheels down! Super easily fixed by putting the changing bag in the basket - within a few weeks its perfect! Its just that initial stage of having a teeny tiny newborn that hardly weighs anything - the downfall, I suppose, of having such a lightweight buggy!
I promise there is no 'wobbliness' and its perfectly safe :) Also agreed that the handle is lovely, and so easy to make longer/shorter.
I still keep my Bee+ on the off-chance that I might need it some times - I have 3YO triplets so its highly unlikely that I use it from one month to the next but I can't bare to get rid!
Feel free to PM me if you want!

minipie, it was partly DP's views that swayed me towards the strawberry. In part it was because he'd previously thought the stokke looked the best thing ever and I can't stand it. Even though I'd have vetoed the stokke I was pleased he found another one to be impressed with.

My initial thought was that the bee would be the best option for us. DP liked the seat height on the stokke though so was very underwhelmed by the bee on that point.

The storage on the strawberry was another selling point for me as it has the basket that although shallow seems a good size and the additional zip up compartment attached to the seat that I think will be really useful.

I think I've ended up becoming a bit obsessed with it now. I was pleased to find something we could agree on though, as we will both be using it (even if I do so more)

A genuine question - what is it about the seat being slightly lower, that bothers people generally?

parties I personally think its fine for a toddler, but when you've got a newborn or when the seat is laid flat, the seat just seems really far away
No real issue, just feels a bit strange I suppose.

I suppose that's it. I've got used to tandems of late so have also got used to all kinds of weird and low seating positions!

It doesn't bother me, but being sorry anyway it's not that noticeable for me. For taller people I can see that a little baby would feel very far away. Also in London, where it seems very suited to and popular, you could often be in very busy, crowded places and I guess it may feel that it could be a bit like a baby is being swamped so far down. DP was particularly drawn to the high up seat position on the stokke, and the bee is the post opposite.

I think once you have had to fight your way through the maze of double pushchairs to find anything...anything...that will work / be pushable then you cease being fussy about height, parent facing etc!

Believe me, I have a collection here of done of the best pushchairs and none are perfect. Choose a pushchair you love because ultimately you have to push, lift and use it. There really isn't much between say the main pushchairs but I do set the Bee apart because it's not as sturdy feeling as the rest but it's got unique features and if they suit your needs then consider it. At least you are all talking sensible pushchairs and not huge monstrosities!!

Out if interest Tiggy, what would you include in the category of huge monstrosities? I keep seeing references to huge travel systems that end up being ditched after 6 months, but don't know what type of models are being referred to.

I don't like the low seat position for quite a few reasons 1) the baby will feel far away (even though I am short!); 2) I live in trafficky London and the baby will be directly at car fume level; and 3) any time the baby needs attending to in some small way I will have to bend right down to reach them.

All of this is much less of an issue for an older baby or toddler though, so if there is a carrycot solution for the Bee then can live with the lower seat.

kate fair point, I did test drive the Bee empty (or possibly with the john lewis fake baby in it, can't remember) and it may well be more stable feeling with some more weight in it. Will try that out at the weekend.

Brugs I can't stand the Stokke either! Just looks really odd and unstable to me. I like the strawberry's features v much but got put off by the bling and the weight of it. DH liked the push and solidity of it but not the bling... He really likes the Vista, now that is a large and heavy system.

To be honest, I don't see a couple of inches makes much difference re traffic fumes. London is polluted enough anyway! The Bee seat position really isn't that low either. Look at this set of photos. The Bee seat is actually higher than some of these leading pushchairs!!!!!!! The Bee also has one of the most easily accessible seats to attend to. I just wish it didn't feel as wobbly.

Re brands to avoid.....anything with fixed wheels, huge bouncy suspension - most of the Silver Cross and Bebecar range are heavy for what they are for example. Ultimately past carrycot mode, the smaller, lighter, neater and more practical a pushchair is, the less likely you are to ditch it for an umbrella fold stroller...and if you have the right pushchair you will never have the urge to do this!

I guess the definition of 'huge monstrosity' is subjective. From my own research and experience, I'd put the Quinny Buzz firmly in this category, yet it seems to be the pram/.pushchair of choice for the majority in this area so it obviously suits the needs of many despite it's clunky fold, ginormous footprint and general unweildiness

You're right Tiggy - perhaps it's not so much that the Bee is unusually low-seated, it's more that there are a few others out there which are unsually high (eg the iCandys, the Uppababys, Stokke) and some people gravitate to those.

minipie I agree the stokke it's very odd looking. It also seems like it would be pretty cumbersome to manoeuvre or lift, particularly for smaller people.

I know what you mean about the iCandy bling. It didn't seem horrifically heavy to me compared to some similar. I guess the Cruz is lighter, but I haven't had a chance to see that and I've ruled it out for other reasons. The positives and how it suited my particular needs overall outweighed the negatives.

I haven't even really looked at the Vista. 2 of my friends have it and I've heard how bulky it is, particularly width wise and difficulties on buses so just discounted it as an option from the outset.

This thread is really useful however I am now in a quandry. I have just ordered the cruz mainly because it is lighter than the vista. But really really love the vista. Love the fabric, the colour choices etc. My needs are similar to the OP in that I live in London will be reliant on public transport, Don't drive and need a good storage basket. I'm also short and felt that the cruz was a tiny bit smaller than the vista.
I'm sure I read that the carrycot for the cruz isn't suitable for overnight. Is this true? If so then this is a real blow to my plans. Only other thing I don't like about the cruz is I keep reading that the carrycot is only available in black and I really don't want black for my baby (maybe strange but feel quite strongly about this). Aaaaaaaghhh! Offload over. No idea what I'm going to do...

No the Cruz carrycot is not suitable for overnight sadly 2blessed - I emailed uppababy and they confirmed this, also the Uppababy representative in the shop I went to last weekend (they had an Uppababy event on) said the same thing.

The Vista could be a pain on buses I think as it's wide so won't fit up the aisle (unless you always get on the back door) may also be a pain in shops and cafes for the same reason. The Cruz is definitely smaller and lighter but doesn't have the overnight carrycot, god knows why!

I do love the Cruz (and I like black ), but ruled it out in the end due to my height (5'3) - the handle was just that bit too tall to be comfortable - it was ok but when I tried shorter handles they felt a lot better. Did you find the handle height ok?

I would like the vista but worried about buses... Are buses in London not wheelchair accessible? Vista is narrower than wheelchair I understand, so if wheelchair fits on surely wouldn't vista. Or do wheelchairs go in the back door? I don't live in London & our buses are wheelchair accessible from the front & no pushchair could get further than the wheelchair bay unfolded I think. So maybe this is just a problem for London bus users?

Some London buses are wheelchair accessible from the front door and some aren't. Most double deckers for example have a pretty narrow aisle from the front door through to where the buggy/wheelchair section is (in the middle of the bus), so I guess that wheelchair users must get on the middle door not the front door.

I imagine you could do the same with a large buggy if you had to - it just might be a pain if lots of people are getting off the middle doors, or if you then have to leave the buggy in the midsection while you go swipe your ticket at the front. So not an issue for occasional bus use but if it's every day and your bus has a narrow aisle from the front door then you might want something narrower.

I think I read somewhere on MN that 60cm is the max width that would fit comfortably down the front bus aisle, I think the Vista is a little over that. (as is the Mutsy Evo).

Just found a whole thread about Vistas on London buses www.mumsnet.com/Talk/pushchair_chat/1143058-Uppababy-Vista-and-London-buses/AllOnOnePage

Thanks minipie. Thinking I'm gonna have to change to the vista

2blessed just checked my emails and they say:

"Dear [minipie],

Sorry to go back on what I previously told you but having double checked it turns out the Cruz is not suitable for continuous overnight sleeping, only occasional use. The Vista, as you said IS suitable and what determines this in the standard is the depth of the carry cot and you will see that the Cruz carry cot is shallow compared to Vista.

Sorry for the confusion.

Best regards,

Kimberley Parker
Customer Care Administrator

For Boon & UPPAbaby"

So it sounds like occasional overnight use probably is ok but regular overnight use isn't. (Although the email isn't quite clear). The email address is [email protected] if you wanted to ask them to clarify.

Personally I wouldn't swap to the vista just to avoid getting a moses basket, because moses baskets can be picked up cheap second hand, but there may be other reasons you want the vista of course!

My first got a Moses basket 5yrs ago for £40 quid, 3 occupamts later it's going on to another family looking no different to the day it arrived. It's been the single best value thing we had in hindsight, we bought it in panic during week1 of baby1 as prior to that I thought it was a waste of money. One of them slept in it for 8 months!

I don't know where everyone is on their decisions. If I had to use london transport really regularly I think I would just get a bee and put up with the downsides. I personally would find everything else too wide, the Vista especially, it's wider than my tandem.

Tiggy has her June btw... hope she will post something about it later on!