Buying Property/rising up the ladder - is it just What We Do? I want to get off...

[Pavlov]

DH and I own our own flat. Or rather, probably the front door, front windows, few bricks. Oh and the new bedroom up top, we own all of that.

We have two children. And we want to move. We can't afford it now as DH has lost his job. But, that will change in the future.

However, even if we absolutely max ourselves out, we will get a house that is ok. It will Do. But it won't be everything we want. We won't for example, be able to get a huge garden. Or 3 good sized bedrooms with a study, dining room, garage. Whatever we buy will, even though costing us a lot of money, will need work done to make it 'finished'.

So I am thinking, why bother? Why do this? why spend 100 of Ks potentially to get something that we are not 100% happy with. In the hope that, next step, we might get a bit closer to what we want. Then again later, a bit closer, then, when the kids are adults and we have a huge house, we will sell it and downsize.

If we rent out our flat. That is our investment kept. Then, we can rent a lovely property, in the countryside. Something we could not afford to buy. No millstone of a mortgage around our heads. If we don't like it, we can move. We won't have 1000s of £ estate agent fees, or having to redecorate/renovate/rebuild/do up costs when we move. We wont have to fix a leaky roof, or burst pipes, or worry about negative equity, or getting a good rate of mortgage/interest rates going up.

and with a target of 15 years, we will build our own place. Exactly as we like.

The thought of renting out a little cottage in the country makes me feel warm and fuzzy, the thought of going through the trauma of selling/buying and living on a shoestring for something we don't even like that much terrifies me.

Is it just me who feels like this ownership culture is just all its cracked up to be?

This is near me here

It's a beautiful estate. I'm sure I've seen properties cheaper than this one but you get the idea!

We're in the process of selling to rent a house in the country. Houses in the village we're moving to are £350k upwards. If we rent we can still save up for when decide to buy (or build - love that idea).

In the meantime we're having a better life now, dd will go to a great school. I'm looking forward to looking out on fields instead of concrete!

Good luck Pavlov

I think it sounds like a good plan if you are prepared to think from a different angle. You view your living costs as just an expense (like petrol or gas or food) rather than paying something off.

I think not being able to decorate would bother me (but then you may find a landlord who is happy). And the uncertainty might not be good for me. But there are absolutely massive Pros.

The reality is, if you can't afford the house of your dreams you have to compromise. That is either space, location/area or by renting. We changed area as it was right for us.

I think you have made your mind up - good luck!!

Do it. Only I would say sell your flat and rent for a while. IMO the UK housing market is heading for a crash. We moved to Ireland in 2002, prices were going through the roof. Since 2007 property prices have dropped by 40+ per cent. We are hanging on, waiting for the prices to fall further ( falling 1% per month at the minute). Instead of paying a mortgage on two salaries over 30 years, soon we will be able to get a mortgage on one salary over 15-20 years. if you want to read about the Irish property market thepropertypin is very intersting. good luck, I'm very happy I didn't buy here in 2006, we'd be in 100k negative equity by now.

glasto - we bought in 2005. We bought, not quite at the top of the market, but not far away. However we spent some money on adding a room, as we could not afford to move again when we had DD (i was 2 wks pg when we moved in, did not know!). Our property would have been about the same in value as when we first bought, but now is worth some more because of the changes we made. I would be happy to take that cash and put it away towards our self-build in the future, but DH really thinks this property should be our long haul. He thinks that whatever the market does, up, down whatever, by the time we retire it will be worth much more than we paid, even if only due to normal inflation. I guess I agree.

We have spent this evening talking about it, and I have read him the posts. He says it is good we have been given cautious advice, as we have a lot to think about regarding how we do this.

But yes, I really think we have made some plans for the future. And, for anyone who knows me on MN at all. This sense of direction is very much needed.

I love the idea of a NT property. unfortunately, most of them are either lived in by Wardens or rented for summer. My friend used to work for them as a Dartmoor Ranger - rented a fabulous little place in the middle of woods near Shaugh Prior in Devon as a volunteer. But they stopped doing it as they got more for summer lets and when he managed some of the Moors, he had to rent privately as he got paid a shit wage too. There are other estates in my area, i might see if any of them do property other than for holidays.

So now I need to go find someone who wants to rent me a property for a long time, who doesn't mind me growing veg and rearranging their garden. And maybe is ok with letting me hang some pictures. Nice ones.

adair and yes I agree, accept that the money is not an investment in a material thing, but an investment in us. One we will see a reward for that is not a thing at the end, ie a house. Like i see our car as an investment. We won't get much for it if we sold it, but it gives us the chance to go to the Moors, the woods, the beach, see our friends, shop at a few different shops not just one crap supermarket, it gives us freedom and we get a lot from it (not mileage wise, in that respect it is baaaad ).

Do it. Worth ringing round every single estate around you (or could you go further afield maybe?). Sorry for self-obsessed post last night - had had a few drinks Was trying to say I completely get where you're coming from and that there's got to be more to life than this hasn't there?

Hi Pavlov.We heard through word of mouth.and I don't think you have to fit a criteria..just be able to pay the rent!and we didn't have to pay a deposit either.We are very lucky indeed.Ds1 starts school in Sept and it is abit of a trek not so much for ds1 but for dp who will have to do the journey 4 times a day. but we can't face moving and renting like we did before so we shall stay put.I wish you luck with whatever you decide to do and yes I agree there is more to life than the property ladder
Glastocat
We have been back in the UK for a year having lived in Ireland for 5 years and I agree property is going down and down so you should be able to get something affordable!

Ladybiscuit I loved your post last night! I meant to say it sounded absolutely fantastic. I'd love to be in that position! I'll look out for your posts to see how your getting on.

I like this post. We rent in a lovely area where £200,000 for a 2 bed house is the norm. Our rent is £570 a month for a 2 bed semi detached victorian house with big garden. (Ok we have no central heating and some damp but hey).

We have never been able to buy - no deposit, low(ish) salaries and lived abroad for a few years.

Now we are saving. And I do think sometimes that maybe we should stay here while girls are growing up (the landlord wants people here longterm) and buy a flat or small property much later on when we have lots saved up. In the current climate there is no way we could buy anything and even saving up a decent deposit for a flat would take us 5 years. Is it all worth it? It does annoy me at times that this isn't our own house but only in the sense that I would like to decorate you know and update.
I think pavlov you should rent in a lovely area and rent out the place you are in now. You just have to make sure that financially it works for you.

..and Ladybiscuit...all the best

We've rented some beautiful houses we could never afford to buy and in one case for £800 less than the advertised rental price, worth negotiating a deal.

pavlov - YANBU.

We have rented for 25 years and our experience except for a very bief period in 1998 is the same as mamatomany. We have rented beautiful houses and flats for far less than the cost of a 100% mortgage plus repair and maintenence and insurance costs.

The 'housing ladder' is a bizarre concept which enslaves people. Prevents them moving quickly to take new jobs, costs them a fortne to move and leaves tem very vulnerable to a change in circumstances.

It has distorted our economy terribly and mired many people in a swamp of debt and is the main cause of the banking crisis and credit crunch. I accept that renting is not secure but cannot think of a single one of my friends who is truely happy with the house they have bouht to live in and some are very worried about their huge mortgage debts and possible job losses.

We feel incredibly lucky renting in the current environment but not agaisnt buying when we get older if we can find a house at a bargain price. Until then, we are happy to rent.

ladybiscuit i meant to say to you, bloody good for you. And enjoy it. I really mean that. There is so much more to life than money. I reminded myself of it again today. A day on the beach, out on my friend's canadian canoe, picnic. It cost us a little petrol and a french stick as we had run out of bread, the rest we had at home. Lovely. What coast?

beenbeta yes, that is how i feel. Enslaved. Like I am doing something because it is expected/required to be a 'normal' person in society. mizu will you be able to buy a house as good as the one you rent? That is my concern about owning. I can rent a better house than I can buy, like mamatomany.

I am looking at the estates around here this week, see if any do rent out, and find out what the processes are. We have said we will do this by the end of of next year, as long as DH is working. This will allow us to get money for furnishing this place well, it is decorated to a very good standard so we are going to go down the 'professional student' rental, rather than standards student accommodation. Doctors rather than undergrads.

Ahh bless you pavlov, doobydoo and hulla I am quite excited. We're going to move to Kent - we need to be near London (ish) for various reasons but it's pretty cheap around there compared to some of the more fashionable Islington-on-Sea places in East Anglia and the south coast.

I shall report back but suspect given my desire to foster lots of children there won't be many cupcakes or buntings involved and just a lot of mess

pavlov, check the terms of your mortgage, you may find it doesn't allow you to rent it out. actually, i know that almost ALL buy-to-let mortgages were removed from the market about 18 months ago, and the interest is considerably higher on these kinds of mortgages - so you will pay MORE money than you do now.

i hate to tell you this, but usually (not always) people go down the property ladder route because it is the best long-term investment. that gives them the chance to enjoy days out, time with family etc which other options don't.

it's not just doing it for the sake of 'fitting in', but because it provides the best for your family.

however, if you can make the numbers work, and it will make you happier, then go for it.

I dont agree totally with you, kickassangel. We live in rented accomodation in EC London. If we were to buy a similar place, the costs (mortgage, utilities, upkeep) would be double* what we pay for rent now.
which means we are able to save.
we have a superb landlord (they are only humans, you can talk to them ) and are here for our 4th year.

Property is not going to be seen as a good long term investment soon! Buy to let is dead in the water now following the new rules on capital gains tax being announced.The market will be flooded in teh next few weeks/months as anyone who has had a BTL in the last few years will have made a lot of capital and will have to pay 18% if they sell now and 40-50 from next year.If you are planning to buy wait

Pavlov - we will NEVER be able to buy a place as nice as the one we are renting. Although like i said, the house we are renting is damp in some rooms and we have no central heating. We have been here nearly 3 years and love the area and the school for the girls is 100m round the corner. Pretty much an ideal location.

We were on a key worker scheme last year as I am a teacher (funding ran out as we were looking) and the places we were looking at were way smaller. There is a house on our road just come up for sale. According to the website it is in serious need of renovation and modernisation. It is a 2 bed semi-detached Victorian like ours. £250,000. Now that seems like a lot to me.

Unless prices come down we will not be able to buy for years to come.

Mizu - if you can't buy a nice house then why do it? really, i am wondering why. now i mean. in the past, great investment. I have a friend who bought a the 'right' time, years ago when she received a very small inheritance she used it as a deposit. She slowly bought and sold, bought and sold, made a profit each time. She did this pre-children so by the time her first child arrived she bought with her dp and they bought a lovely house with a garden, garage, the most outstanding views, near a good school etc. And her mortgage is less than half the value of the house. She is most certainly better off owning as she pays little in mortgage. But even her house is not fab, needs work.

If we build. We can build for the value of her house. We can build it as we want it. And in the mean time, I want to live by the sea. I have decided .

kickassangel then we won't tell them . Seriously though, we would find a way, i am sure we can our else there will be no more properties being rented out would there. That would be the end of people buying and renting as well surely?

In January I decided I had had enough and with 3rd baby on the way too just needed a big house. Couldnt afford one, so rented out our cottage and then ourselves rented a huge house on a country estate. There is no way we could afford a house like that but are now enjoying living in it and get all of the perks. It is the old gardeners cottage on a large country estate. We share the big drive with the big house and have to go over cattle grids, there is even a gate house at the bottom of the drive. We have a huge huge garden, and bung the groundsman a four pack of Fosters to mow our lawn. Its just bloody brilliant, I am so so happy. I cant recommend it enough, and we are still on the old property ladder. There is a difference of £200. I have a mortgage payment of £575, we collext £675 rent and we pay £875 for our rent. But you could possibley do it cheaper, I just got greedy and fell in love with this place. check out "smiths gore" website. OOh I am all excited for you, I want to help you search. We have deer and pheasants and bunnies in the garden its just so dreamy here xx

www.smithsgore.co.uk/property-to-rent

What is your monthly budget, and which area? I am looking already

oh thinker you have made me all excited! Right now, we have no budget as DH is unemployed and I am on ML but when he is working again, our budget would be around the same as you! in fact, the sums are similar. We would be paying around £200 difference between mortgage and new rental. So, £750 a month, with a bit of leeway for the perfect house.

South Hams, or East Cornwall.

OOOOh near me, i live in devon near crediton. You so have to do this, your kids will remember it as their family home. thet wont care if you own it or not, and we dont own our houses really do we, the bank does.

thinker DH went to school in Crediton!

DH and I have spoken and spoken and I read your post to him and he is excited.

We have decided we will do it. We will do it in September 2011. DS will be 20 months, DD will be 5. We have time then to sort out things like DH getting a job, find the place we want, get students in for September/talk to the uni about how to do this. We will do it properly. By hook o by crook, this time in 18 months, we will be in a lovely house with a garden (and a woodburner ).

You are so right. The children do not have memories based on whether this is our house or not. It will be our home. And then, when we are ready to build, we will build.