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Property/DIY

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Three storey houses (inc loft conversion) and insurance

33 replies

frogetyfrog · 04/02/2010 16:52

Not sure whether this is in the right topic, but we are looking to convert our attic to loft conversion. When talking to Building Control it appears there is still a requirement for self closing doors around the exit corridor (in our case the stairwell so all doors off it have to be self closing). Now, I know most people have the work done, then take the self closers off once the work is inspected and signed off (the building control officer told me this himself). But this would presumably invalidate any insurance in the event of a fire, resulting in no payout. He said that fire doors and closures are required on any house of over two storeys - so do all those of you living in three storey houses (either originally built that way or loft converted) have self closures on the doors and use them? What a nightmare with young children - virtually impossible to live in a house with all the doors shut even if just at night. Or are you risking invalid insurance by propping doors open or taking fire door self closures off? Or have I got my facts wrong (she says hopefully). Any advice on this would be gratefully received as this may be a deal clincher for us as I cannot live with the childrens doors shut at night (and part of house doors shut in day depending on where we are in house), and do not want to risk having absolutely no payout if we have a fire.

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LIZS · 04/02/2010 16:59

There are closers on most doors but we wedge the relevant ones open and lunge one has been disabled Insurance have never asked. Someone posted recently that closers were no longer a requirement for building regs

frogetyfrog · 04/02/2010 17:04

Oh Lisz, I hope they are not, I really do. But I was in the Building Control office today and asked the BC officer to check and he said they were.

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HairyMaclary · 04/02/2010 17:09

our loft conversion was finished in Jan 09 and we don't have self closing doors, we do have 30 min fire doors on all bedrooms and downstairs but only close the downstairs ones at night. DC like their doors open!

frogetyfrog · 04/02/2010 17:12

HairyMaclary - thats good news. How do you like the loft room now. Did BC sign it off without self closures. Did a loft conversion company do the work or a builder. Would you recommend it.

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frogetyfrog · 04/02/2010 19:31

.

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bumpybecky · 04/02/2010 19:39

We're in a 1969 three storey town house. None of our doors are self closers and we have no doors at the top or bottom of the two sets of stairs (only on the rooms themsleves).

This has never been questioned by insurers when it comes to house insurance

We have had a small fire in the kitchen which was on the middle floor (kicthen now downstairs). The loss adjuster visited and didn't make any comments about doors, but then for the damage we had doors woudln't have made any difference.

bumpybecky · 04/02/2010 19:40

meant to say, we've been here over 8 years and have used three different insurance companies, none have ever asked about doors

frogetyfrog · 04/02/2010 19:41

I think bumpybecky, you would be ok because of the age of your house anyway as self closers were not required at the time it was built. I wonder how the insurers would react to a house built in last few years in that situation. Thanks for your reply.

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caughtintheact · 04/02/2010 19:48

hmmm...
we've just had a loft conversion company around to give us a quote and I asked him about self-closing doors as I hate them too. He said that the regs have changed and that you either can have fire doors OR fit smoke alarms in all bedrooms or something. I can't quite remember the details as I just felt relieved that there was an alternative to fire doors.

frogetyfrog · 04/02/2010 19:52

Thats sounds good caughtintheact, although differenct to what I have been told. What we need is a good building control officer on here to advise ........... helloooooooo, anyone out there?

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InmyheadIminParis · 04/02/2010 20:28

I'm not a building regs bod, but we're about to do a loft conversion too and I can second what some of the others have said. I had a vist yesterday from a loft conversion specialist and he said that the rules on closers have changed. You can now go with fire doors without closers and instead have a wired-in smoke alarm on each floor.

I've found that the Building Regulations people are very easy to talk to. Call your local council and ask for the building regs department - they'll talk you though it over the phone (think they'd rather people got in touch and did it properly than that they have to visit after a build and condemn the work).

frogetyfrog · 04/02/2010 21:27

Cheers Inmyhead. I have talked to BC today as I thought the rules have changed but they told me they havent! I hope you are right. Perhaps what I will do is phone another BC officer in a different local authority and see what they say.

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mowcop · 04/02/2010 21:30

same here, 30 minute route and wired in alarms. No closers - thank goodness!

hester · 04/02/2010 21:35

I'm just buying a three storey house with a recent loft conversion and no fire doors. Instead, they installed a sprinkler system throughout the house. I'm just waiting to get soaked the first time I burn the toast...

frogetyfrog · 04/02/2010 21:37

Cheers for your replies. I wonder if my BC officer doesnt know the regs!!! I will check and hope.

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Katz · 04/02/2010 21:41

Same as others, we've been told we'll need fire doors and wired smoke alarms, just waiting for planning permission now!

moomaa · 04/02/2010 21:50

We have self closers but we prop the doors open in the day and have them closed at night (in case of fire) and have wired in smoke alarm anyway. The doors are not really a pain once you are used to it.

Hulababy · 04/02/2010 21:51

I live in a 3 storey house. All our doors on all floors have self shutting closers except for the bathrooms. We have wedges for all bedroom doors, kitchen and living room. DD's room is always wedged open day and night. I shut the kitchen and living room ones at night and when we go out. Playroom is often left open. The doors are supposed to be the type that last longer in fires too IIRR.

If you take self closers off it invalidates your insurance, and you have to repair them before selling.

We have lived in properties with them since DD was 16 months old and it has never been a problem.

frogetyfrog · 04/02/2010 21:54

Hulababy and Moomaa - thats interesting. Getting a really mixed response here with some people being told that self closers are a requirement, and some being told that they are not (even recent works). Would it invalidate your insurance if you had propped a door open. Do you shut dds door at night.

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Hulababy · 04/02/2010 21:57

DD's door stays open at night.

I suspect it is an either or thing.

If you have closers than could invalidate insurance if not used and they are your fire protection.

If you have alternative - the fire doors or wired smoke alarms - we have both of those two) - and they are in working order, then probably fine insurance wise.

EdgarAllenSnow · 04/02/2010 22:04

my folks house is three storeys, though built in 1914 - never been an issue raised by insurers.

as always, read the exclusions before you sing up...

moomaa · 04/02/2010 22:11

I shut kids doors at night, I think it is a good habit to learn to sleep with the door shut in case of fires. Parents drilled it into me. Having said that, I have just realised that I don't shut my own door.

The loft extension was done when we moved in and solicitor said they had to be on and working.

BicycleBelle · 04/02/2010 22:11

Just completed my loft extension before Xmas. I can confirm thqt door closures are not required - challange your building control officer if they say they are. Doors only have to be 20mins fire protection, but people ask from 30 mins because you cannot buy 20mins doors. My BC officer eventually gave in and accepted that I didn't have to change my doors, simply paint them with intumescent paint and fit a self adhesive smoke strip. You will also need mains power fire alarms on each level, which we already had anyhow as its a generally good idea. Just renewed my insurance and the companies I contacted were not interested in details like smoke detectors / door closures.

frogetyfrog · 04/02/2010 22:15

I suspect you could have a point moomaa. The BC officer I spoke to today did say it would invalidate insurance if doors werent closed when fire hit. He also said we needed wired smoke alarms too (in addition to closers). But then from the replies on here, I wonder if he has his facts wrong and things have changed. Does seem confusing though, which is a worry as it needs to be clear and correct or many of us could end up with invalid insurance.

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BicycleBelle · 04/02/2010 22:23

www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/professionals/buildingregs/technicalguidance/bcfiresafetypa rtb/bcfaqs2/bcfaqvol1

Hope this link works - its the page on the gov planning portal which confirms that door closures are no longer required. Your BC officer is out of date.