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Original poster

What is worng with sellers!?!?! ARGHHH

100 replies

navyeyelasH · 13/02/2009 22:47

am a First Time buyer with mortgage agreed and 40% deposit. Have offered on a house that has been for sale for 1 year, is currently empty and "sold" for £180,000 3 months ago but the buyer did a bunk. It's ont the market for £185,000

Have put in three offers, the highest being £165,000. All rejected.

Why oh why! The headline of the property on rightmove is something like "quick sale needed, all genuine offers considered" etc. Second house we have offered on now, the first was a very cheeky offer (although house still on market about 8 weeks after made offer).

What is it with people who want to sell houses but don't actually want to face up to the fact that the market sucks in most areas right now!

AIBU?

OP posts:
PortAndLemon · 15/02/2009 12:50

Or Scottish system, where (I think) sellers specify the smallest amount they'd sell for and buyers put in bids equal to or greater than that. Although I don't know how well that works in the current economic climate.

jeanjeannie · 15/02/2009 12:50

A house is only worth what someone is prepared to pay for it. People (sellers and buyers)seem unable to believe they go up and down in value. We all wish we'd bought at the bottom and sold at the top but in the last 10 years buying a house has become akin to buying shares. Now no one knows what property is worth at the moment and just how far back the prices will fall - if at all.

I agree with Lala - I don't think it's personal - it's become big business. Houses stopped being 'just homes' for many people when their value shot up out of the reach of many ordinary individuals on a decent wage.

Sorrento · 15/02/2009 12:52

Because if I saw a house with say, 6 bedrooms and I need 6 bedrooms then that house is worth more to me than say if you saw it and thought well the 6 beds are nice but I only need 4 so I am not paying an extra £100k for 2 beds I don't need. Everything else might be perfect within the house but to me I would be happy to pay a premium for the extra bedrooms that you wouldn't be.
Does that sort of make sense.
If i'm not in the picture at all then the house to you is worth £100k less.

Original poster
navyeyelasH · 15/02/2009 15:45

Hmm yes Sorrento that sort of makes sense I think?

At least I am clam now, I was just so grr originally because of what the EA agent said. He should ahve kept it to himself if that really was what the vendor said IMO!

The other house is really nice has smaller garden and smaller downstairs but has better potential, and bigger upstairs; it's also further away from busy road so garden is blissfully quiet and is on a nicer street. Also a nicer looking house from outside - bonus! It's on for £179, going to offer £174,999.

Fingers crossed! Horrible offering on a repossession though - the sale process is also quite fraught and scary!

OP posts:
Sorrento · 15/02/2009 15:54

Estate agents are unqualified knobs I have found, occassionally you come across a good one, but we've met some who basically find out what you want to spend, add 10% and then tried to play me and DH off each other showing us more expensive properties. What he wasn't banking on was me being the tight arse that didn't want to spend much, the poor bloke didn't know what to do next.
In the USA they have to be licensed and they should be here it's the biggest financial decision most people ever make, a spiv in a suit shouldn't be part of that process.

noddyholder · 15/02/2009 16:18

A house is worth what someone can/will pay.
Someone can/will pay what the bank will lend them
Banks are cutting back on multiples and are reverting to strict criteria hence a house has no intrinsic value and is based solely on historicals and averages.
So someone can offer what they like there is no cheeky tbh.if you look back to about 2003 that is about where we are now.
i personally think that the max prices achieved in the summer 07 will in some cases be halved by about 2010-11

Mintyy · 15/02/2009 20:50

New house sounds much nicer, navy. Hope you succeed. Good luck to you. Are you prepared to pay £10,000 more for it than the other one because it is on a nicer street? I think that's wise btw.

Noddy, I disagree. A house is worth what a vendor is prepared to sell it for, not what a buyer is prepared to pay. I think there's a difference there. The vendor makes the decision. No amount of throwing teddy out of the pram by a disappointed buyer is going to make some vendors shift.

LiberalIdleOlogy · 15/02/2009 21:54

You think Mintyy?

Any business can price itself out of the market - why would homes be different?

House sales data show lowest level in 30 years

In case you haven't noticed, times have changed.

Mintyy · 15/02/2009 21:57

Don't patronise me.

Original poster
navyeyelasH · 15/02/2009 22:35

Well the more recent house is on for less - am amount that I feel is fair hence my offer. We don't want to go to asking price because of stamp duty and the associated costs. It makes a big difference. I'm assuming the EA know this though so although have it priced higher will be expecting prices around stamp duty.

The funny thing is the first house is in a cul-de-sac to that might seem better to others but to me the other street has a more family feel whereas the cul de sac seems more retirement feel. The houses are more os less back to back give about 30 meters! So I think that shows the original one is on for too much. The first is in much worse condition inside too.

Just trying to hammer home the point I'm not a greedy buyer!

I think the value of the house should be what the buyer is willing to pay. Of course it'll only go at a price the vendor happy to let it go at, but at the end of the day if there are lots of other comparable houses in the area and yours is the most expensive it's never going to shift, even if demand is high. So 9/10 it's the buyers that dictate the price, it's just up to the vendor to decide when the right buyer has the right price!

OP posts:
baffledbb · 15/02/2009 23:21

Well my house sale is completing this week, at a price 25% below the original asking price last January.

I didn't go with the EA which gave the largest valuation, but the one which was in the middle of the three valuations. I made this choice because this was the most popular local agent.

I said at the time though to the EA I thought the valuation was a bit on the high side but went along with it on their assurance that it was achievable. It became clear after a couple of months, many viewers, and no offers that it wasn't achievable.

I then discussed with them dropping the price - I was thinking 10%, EA said 5%, went along with the EAs 5%, and again no offers so again I discussed dropping price, again the EA were more conservative than me suggesting another 5% but I went for a 20% drop from original price for marketing and I accepted as I say 25% below.

The thing that surprised me about this was the reluctance of the EA to market at lower prices.

I have no problem accepting my "paper" loss from the top of the market as I still have plenty of equity and realistically all the other houses in this region have decreased in value as well even if the penny hasn't dropped with some vendors yet.

Sorrento · 15/02/2009 23:28

Estate Agents charge you a % of the sale fee, they don't want their % to drop.
Also a lot of them are quite young and genuinely only have experience of house prices rising I really think many of them believe their own bullshit, it's not really their fault.

MrsSchmaltzyMerryHenry · 15/02/2009 23:30

I am about to become a seller.

That seller you've mentioned, navy, is a fool. Pull out. If they're being this sticky over something so obvious, they'll only get worse. You'll find somewhere better. If they get desperate they may come crawling back, and then you'll have the upper hand.

trixymalixy · 15/02/2009 23:37

Sorry navyeyelasH, but if a buyer had said to me

"it's on the table so let me know when you figure out it's very reasonable but in the meantime we are actively looking at other houses"

I would have thought you were cheeky, and depending on how desperate I was to sell would have avoided selling to you at all costs.

Sorrento · 15/02/2009 23:37

Seriously you aren't a greedy buyer any more than the sellers are greedy.
This is now a business transaction, it stopped being bout peoples home's in 2000 when buy to let started en mass and people thought that they could paint the house magnolia and make £20k, when as Sarah Beeny has pointed out time and time again it was purely the market rising. Now it's purely the market falling, no reflection on your house or you personally it's just the way the cookie crumbles and now it's the BUYERS calling the shots.

PollyFilla · 15/02/2009 23:40

vendors need to get real. The market is falling and will carry on falling I think. And anyone who says they KNOW when the bottom of the market is is lying.

Sorrento · 15/02/2009 23:41

That's so true, nobody knows where the bottom was until it starts rising again, but based on history we've a while to go yet.

PollyFilla · 15/02/2009 23:42

I also don't understand why vendors are so emotional about it, what is all this "I don't like the reduced offer, so I'm not selling to you now, ner" stuff? It's a business transaction and you either accept or decline an offer, you don't need to take offence or get personal.

Original poster
navyeyelasH · 15/02/2009 23:51

trixymalixy - I put in three offers at the start the vendor wanted in the region of £155 - we offered £150. Then the vendor suddenly wanted in the region of £165, I then offered £160 and then the vendor was looking more in the region of £180 as that is what it "sold" as before. When I offered £165 the EA told me the vendor was, "angry and insulted at my cheeky offer"!

Why waste my time and change the amount they were looking for each time (granted I did speak to 2 different EA's within the same branch and the one doesn't seem to have a clue). I always respond the telephone calls promptly even though I work longer hours than EA's I find the time to call them back and yet one offer I waited 3 days to hear back without so much as a courteous call saying "oh sorry about the holdup we are waiting for X, Y, Z..."

I came out with that statement with the aim of making the EA and vendor realise I am serious about buying a house - I'm not just throwing out random offers in the hope the vendor is stupid enough to accept which is what the EA implied. And after the run around they have given me I feel it is more than fair.

OP posts:
Original poster
navyeyelasH · 15/02/2009 23:56

Put it this way if I was buying a pair of jeans from this EA's I would have told them to naff off long ago and their customer service has been appalling, the way they speak to me is terrible and the lies they have told are laughable.

But because this is a house, an emotional investment, I feel I have to out up with this sort of service. Is that fair? No.

OP posts:
Nighbynight · 16/02/2009 00:03

agree with those who have said, that words like "angry and insulted" really have no place in a house-buying transaction.

expatinscotland · 16/02/2009 09:39

why on Earth would you want to buy from someone like this at all? seriously, i'd find somewhere else, because i'd be afraid these folks would pull a fast one at the last minute and screw me over.

what's the point in dealing with someone who's that friggin het up when they're supposedly trying to sell their house?

good god.

move on!

it's a two way street - what buyers can afford to pay (banks are lending what they used to even last year and are requiring bigger deposits), and what vendors are willing to sell for. if they can afford to hang onto their house till kingdom come, which is probably the next time we'll see house prices reach what they did in 2006, then more power to 'em, they can stay where they are or find some mug who's minted.

titchy · 16/02/2009 10:04

Mintyy - how can a house value be determined by the vendor? The price of any good or service is whatever the market will pay fro it - not what the seller will sell for. That's basic economics.

I could decide to put my house on the market at £2m - that doesn't make it worth (anywhere near!) £2m. It's worth what someone will buy it for.

And I think navy's frustration should be vented mainly at the EA (although the vendor is being somewhat unrealistic, tho' perhaps they aren't really serious sellers?) - the EA shoudl be calming any troubled waters between vendor and offeree, not stirring things up.

expatinscotland · 16/02/2009 11:18

Well I guess it can, titchy, if the vendor isn't really interested in selling it. Then you wonder why they put it in the market in the first place.

jeanjeannie · 16/02/2009 14:00

I agree with expat - I'd walk away from them, they're obviously not desperate to move!

A vendor can determine the price - in a market that's rising. I think vendors and EA (love the spivs in suits comment earlier!) have definately been setting the price for the last decade. No one cried 'foul' very loudly when, back in 2001, London prices were going up £2000 pw. I remember putting in offers and the EAs calling me back to tell me the offer had been rejected (after acceptance) as the vendor wanted more. Each time I walked away.

However now the tables have turned; vendors can't quite seem to realise that their investment may have gone down and it's a buyer's market. If you have to sell then it'll go for what someone is prepared to buy it for - there is no set-in-stone market value in these unknown times.