Are some vendors just living in cloud cuckoo land?

[critterjitter]

I don't have a place to sell, so am supposedly in demand as a buyer! However, I've offered on a property twice in 6 months, to no avail!

Its on now for £309,0000. (previously on for £339,000 then £329,000). Its a probate (all paperwork done).

Its been on for nearly a year now! I offered them £300k six months ago, but they turned me down in favour of someone who offered higher, but was in a chain. Predictably, the sale fell through and the house went back on the market. And sat there, and sat there.

Six months later (this week), I offered them £250k. Bearing in mind that the market is collapsing and that the mortgage deals I have on offer to me now are very limited.

They reject again! How long before the house is valued at £250k anyway? It needs lots of work and we're in a falling market. So why don't vendors see that?

No, she's suggesting that 27% less is what it's worth to her. If no one offers more than that, then that IS what it's worth. The value an estate agent puts on it is neither here nor there if no one bought it at that price, and no one is buying it at the new lower price.

Actually 27% is not at all ridiculous. Even the most vested interests (ie. the banks) are talking about 20% falls as a minimum. And let's face it a year ago they were wildly over-optimistic (no nominal falls, anyone?). Many others are talking about 50%.

justaboutisverydull - ". I am working on the assumption that a 15% fall has pretty much taken place, in some areas, and that house prices aren't going to fall much further than that. They might briefly hit a 20% drop but not for long. The British psyche is far too invested in the idea of owning one's own home for that."

But that is just your assumption and has about as much basis as a seller's notion that their house is so special it must be worth at least what Mrs Jones across the road sold hers for plus 10%.

The reality is that while we all have our own notions and theories, nobody knows how far prices might fall. This credit crunch is unprecedented. We can safely say they will keep falling for a while yet, as the market adapts to mortgages being less available, worse economic conditions etc. But none of us really know how low prices will go or when/if they go back up again. That is why there is a stalemate. There is huge uncertainty, and people cling to the theories that suit their personal circumstances.

I agree with you re. the newspapers btw.

Was it 'ridiculous' when prices in some areas (parts of London) went up over 20% in a year? Would it be ridiculous for them to come down by more than that?

From what I could work out, the £340k price was 'froth' - as even the Estate Agent advised me to go in at £300k (and that was 6 months ago).

He also advised them to take my offer (chain free, mortgage offer ready etc), rather than a slightly higher one from someone in a chain.

Fact is though, that its been on the market for a year now, sitting empty, and no one has bought!

And they can't rent it out or live in it in the meantime because of its condition.

A lot has changed in the past six months though - prices have fallen faster even than I had anticipated, the credit crunch/financial crisis has gone to all new levels with even HBOS not being able to survive alone, and as the OP pointed out, it is much harder to get a mortgage or to borrow to make a place habitable. The agent's advice six months ago could hardly have anticipated all that, so a very much lower price is justified.

I've just had a flick through Prime Location! Two virtually identical houses in the immediate area of this house have now dropped to around £250k! (from around £300k)

And they are both well presented (so no need for complete redecoration etc. as with the other house.)

Hmm..... looks like my offer figure was about right!

it's all about what hte market will bear.

if it's too expensive, then it will just sit on the market and not sell and if the seller can afford to hang onto it, well then the prices will remain elevated.

We had an offer accepted 213 on a 300k house.It has just fallen through though for structural reasons!Viewed another today.The house next door sold for 313 in January This one is on for 275 and we offered 220 and are waiting to hear.The agent has said only very well priced/discounted properties aer sellingAm in the south east and near excellent schools etc

great news for you, noddy! glad to hear it.

Hey critter your offer is fair! Stand your ground!

Just to confuse things further, saw this today:

House prices: the 10 best and 10 worst performing counties

The drops are quite varied - bear in mind these are asking prices, not selling prices so difficult to determine whether people in London (3.8% rise in last quarter!) are just in more denial than other parts of the country or can genuinely still get decent prices.

critter you're right they're deluded, I think you new offer is generous for a wreck (as the local papers have just proved)

what amazes me is all the people saying oh we'll take it off the market and just sit tight

IMHO
they probably had no real intention/need to sell had just seen some historical asking prices and thought we'll have some of that,

people are very emotional about what their house is 'worth' and refuse to accept it's worth exactly as much as someone is prepared to apy for it

I really don't know what people are waiting for houses are massively overpriced do the sums people and you can see it doesn't add up plus now even the less clued in buyer has seen prices fall just what is going to make people bay these prices? I don't know anyone who wants to spend pushing 1,000,000 pounds on a family house who is just waiting for the banks to release some more money.

rents are falling (and usually do in a falling market with oversupply) plus renting really reduces the value of the property compared to OO

isn't the general feeling interest rates are some way off falling?

in other words, no body knows what on earth is going to happen! Prices will come down, but by how much?! I wish we could just all see our house as a home, a vehicle to a happy life, rather than a financial investment as all the property porn programmes have made us think. I'm paying rent a the minute, hating renting, hating the instability, and can't wait to buy ... but all this talk of losing money on a house sale, crashes etc - it's hard to know whether to rent and be unhappy; or buy and be happy?

Hi Noddy, so you're house hunting again? We have left our forever house for a few days before upping our offer, to give the stupid vendor time to think.
Hope yours is accepted!

yes nightmare really but the house we were buying ha movement and they strapped it to the house next door without telling them so we had to pull out.Fingers crossed we get this one as our rental is seriously damp

The Council of Mortgage Lenders refused to make a prediction today and has abandoned forecasts for the rest of the year describing the process of forecasting as futile - all estimates so far have been wrong and they're basically saying that nobody knows.

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/3074844/House-price-predictions-futile-says-CML.html

Thanks everyone. Have given them 7 days to consider before the offer is withdrawn. Also informed them that I will only offer less after that date (if at all).

It is amazing though that there are so many properties on Prime Location and Right Move which have been on for up to a year at the same price or are coming on at summer 2007 prices!

I do wonder if some of these vendors think that someone will magically come along who hasn't heard anything about our collapsing housing market and just offer full price??

P.S. Sorry to hear about your house Noddyholder! Good luck for the next one!

The houses that I am looking at are in a good part of London, near excellent schools etc. So all the more interesting that vendors are still feeling the need to slash their prices. They were going like hot cakes a year ago! Things must be bad!

they might not want to sell to you (sorry)

my mum is like that. wouldn't matter about the price, she just wouldn't sell to some of the people who came to look at the house. didn't like them. maybe they got offended last time by your offer and are in a strop with you? why not just offer on one of the other houses you mentioned instead?

They haven't met me Morocco! Their EA know me, as I sold my last house through them. They indicated to me (the last time) that they had urged them to accept my offer, as they couldn't be sure that the other previous buyer wouldn't try a spot of gazundering before exchange! And lo and behold the house came back on the market a few months later!

Anyway, very likely that I will offer on one of the other properties. Seems to be in nice condition and within a very short walk to station, shops and schools.

Critter I don't think I'd sell to you on principle either.

You might be right about the price, but your offers seem a bit cheeky given you were willing to pay £300k 6 months ago.