Pre-planning advice

[User415373]

Hi,
This is my first time on this thread and I am as clueless as I sound!
We're not looking to move at all, but have been offered first refusal on a house we love. It's not on the open market.
The problem is, it's too small for us (family of 4) and we'd only buy if we knew we could extend.
My local council provide a pre-planning service, but it's not clear whether you need drawings or not. I don't know whether they can advise on what we could/couldn't have, max size, style etc or whether we need to get a design and plans drawn up (extra £££), just for them say, no chance?
We'd need to do this before we agree to buy and then put our house on the market. But equally don't want to keep the current owner waiting for a long time. Any advice appreciated!

Take photos of the existing
Copy on a photocopier and draw on the volume of the space you want to increase it by
It would be good to know the existing m2 and the proposed m2

This will give you enough
If it’s all to the rear it’s not such an issue
If you are extending at the front it’s more tricky

Planners have no rights to comment on your style choice unless it’s a listed building or conservation area. They may try it on but they have no rights to comment

Design wise going forward and in case they ask these questions ( unlikely)
Watch out for
windows that overlook the neighbours land near their rear
Windows that look into neighbours windows is a no no unless they are bathrooms
Building that blocks a neighbours light to habitable rooms. Irrelevant if the room has a secondary window. People have a right to light but not a view

Suggest you don’t go above the height of other buildings in the road planners are hot on that.

Suggest you avoid building out at the front unless others in the road have done it. If they have bring along a photo to show precedent

You could look on the local planning portal to see What others have got accepted

Im an Architect but I’d still say don’t waste money on an Architect at this stage.

They do not expect full blown drawing.

To conclude
All they need is
-an idea of volume, height width depth - so a sketch plan ( no internal doors windows etc needed )
-impact on neighbouring properties so include the line of the neighbours houses
-Location plan - don’t assume they know the road
-Some Google street images or your own photos
-Photos of the existing
-Photocopy of existing with the proposed drawn onto it
-figures in m2 on existing and proposed sizes

@DrPrunesqualer that's fantastic advice, thank you. It's very rural, one neighbour about 100m on the other side of the road. The house is T shaped and we'd want to square off the T if that makes sense.
I don't know if it's a listed building...it's a very old cottage.
The current owner extended in 2008 and said he was barely allowed to have what he's done which worried me but maybe that was under permitted development rather than needing full planning permission.

• location plan. How far our does that need to go? It would be mainly fields until you get to the next house which is quite far away.

Thanks again.

I can't add more to the advice above, all very sensible and sound. Before you do anything else I would check if it is Listed and if not if it is in a conservation area. historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/

If it is listed then this becomes a very different conversations.

You can check whether it’s listed ( and what listing ) in your sale documents or phone The Conservation officer at your local council
Its very important as it will seriously impact what you can do.
Grade 2star practically Nothing and restrictions on the internals aswel ) we can’t even strip paint off doors we have to retain original paint due to historical value so we can only overpaint for example)

Grsde 2 not as restrictive

As you don’t have neighbours you’ll have an easier time if it if it’s not listed that is. But check with the lical counvil in case you are a conservation area. Conservation areas require you to get permission to cut trees bavk etc so again quite restrictive.

Location plan.

A simple map showing location to the nearest town
Then your land registry plan that came with your sales details is enough.

You can also go online to
Historic England website
and search for your property on that.
They have a postcode or map search
( to see if it’s listed. )u

If the previous owner had issues it may be an old building with local value but not listed. Things get tricky so make sure you have photos from all angles ( including from the road ) to show the planners.

Planners have no rights to comment on your style choice unless it’s a listed building or conservation area. They may try it on but they have no rights to comment
Planners can absolutely consider the design, character and appearance of any development.

The current owner extended in 2008 and said he was barely allowed to have what he's done which worried me but maybe that was under permitted development rather than needing full planning permission.
If it's rural, it could be green belt where there are usually restrictions on increasing the size of the original dwelling (as existing in 1948).
Similarly, in rural areas there can be policies on the loss of small dwellings.

These matters should be covered in a pre-app consultation.

Planners cannot refuse planning based on style alone
They can on volume etc. not the
style
They can ask for materials that match those in the local area. So if you want a ‘different look’ you can do so but use those local materials aswell

There have been many appeals on this issue when planning have attempted to overstep. As Rowan Atkinson said in his appeal ‘ what is a house’- he won of course

They try it on of course but taking an application back to appeal sorts that out.

Dependent on certain areas of course, high interest, conservation etc

You should be able to check previous permissions and applications online especially if Listed Building Consent was also required. Even a preplanning meeting does not guarantee success as the framework is changing and different planning officers may take another view or refer it to committee. If Listed you would need to check with the Historic Conservation officer and perhaps Historic England (or similar).

New development, including extensions, can be refused if it is harmful to the character if an area, or the host dwelling. New development should be in keeping with the character.
I have refused applications on that basis.
I have lost appeals where the Inspector has considered the design to be harmful.

Depends on the area as mentioned upthread
Cannot be based on opinion alone
Very difficult for planners to prove which is why most are passed and others on appeal are passed

Think we must work on different sides of the same ball game but as a ( rather oldish ) Architect I will agree to disagree on this one seeline.

Fair enough - as an oldish planner I have seen decisions go both ways. But I stand by the premis that design/appearance/character is definitely a material planning consideration 😁

Wonder if we’ve ever come face to face on this one seeline

enguard 🤺 🤣

Thanks all. I think in this area design and appearance is very important. But it's not listed and not in a conservation area.
I just want to go as big as we can basically.

Always put forward your ideal solution and if adviced you may not get it
ask for the policy that would be against you

It’s those policies ( plus others obvs) you need to consider and refer to in the full planning application going forward.

ps it may be difficult if your original cottage becomes subservient to the new extension. An extension is generally concidered an extension to a building and shouldn’t overpower it. Nevertheless it’s not beyond the bounds of possibility and worth asking.

The planner won't be able to tell you how big you can go - they won't be able to design the extension for you (ie "go out a bit here, up a bit there"). But they will look at planning history, the size of the original building and any existing extensions and how that sits in the plot of land.

They absolutely can make determination based on style. Sometimes, something ultra modern can be approved - it can show the change between old and new and the passage of time as a building is used through its life - sometimes something ultra modern is out of keeping g with the size, scale and design of the original building.

If the house is in the greenbelt, then there may well be restrictions on size and design.

Best thing is to have a look and see if there are any designations on the house (listed building, conservation area, green belt, that sort of thing). Most local authorities have their development plan online with interactive maps that highlight these. While you are there, have a look for any relevant policies or documents about householder extensions, extending old buildings, green belts etc. It helps to be informed and you can see where the planner is coming from as they talk to you.

Please don't rely on "precedent". Just because someone got an extension of whatever size nearby does not mean it is more likely that you will get one too. Circumstances may be different (change in policy, specific site reasons, design, maybe permission on appeal or by a committee).

The planner will not automatically say no, most are positive about development! It does make a difference if the development takes account of the site, the house and the specific size and/or design.

If it is Greenbelt, have you also looked into whether National Landscape or Site of Scientific Interest designation might also app,y.

Thanks for the advice all. Not green belt either. I will read through the relevant docs and go from there.
It's a bit of a chicken and egg situation really. I have in mind what we could propose but obviously am not a planner or architect so not really sure if it's the best use of space. A larger, single storey would be easier but would a smaller 2 storey be more likely to be accepted? No idea at this point! But an architect might have a totally different suggestion we haven't thought of.

My council website just redirects to the planning portal and I don't know if I'm being an idiot but on the following page:
https://www.planningportal.co.uk/permission/common-projects/extensions/planning-permission
This makes it sound like you can't do much at all with any extension? Or is the 'things to consider' sections just related to permitted development? I'm guessing not as it mentions 2 storey etc.
From reading it though, it sounds like we won't be able to do anything as the house has been previously extended twice and the newer sections equal to or are more than the original size of the house.

Yes - those rules are for permitted development.

You need to look on your Council website for the Local Plan which should contain policies relating to extensions and general development.
The Council might also have a Design Guide which will give further information.

OP if the house has already been extended beyond the permitted m2 before you sre charged additional fees by planning. reading through your council link and from what you’ve said about previous extensions the property may well have reached its allowable limit for funds. Not necessarily that you can’t extend at all.

You need to assess the original m2 of the property and the total m2 of all extensions so far.

Then talk to the planners to see what, if anything you can do.
However, I agree if there have already been multiple extensions the likelihood of a very large extension that you spoke of may be less likely

If it’s a large plot with no neighbours there may be an argument there in your favour. However that doesn’t mean you’ll get away without paying the additional ££

This section attached states you can’t build over more than half the land. So that’s your max re footprint

This section here refers to money you have to pay as a community levy IF all extensions including previous ones go over 100m2.

It doesn’t mean you can’t extend

Thanks everyone.
The original cottage was a 2 up/down, 36m2.
First 2 storey extension added 18m.
Second 2 storey extension added 24m2.
We'd want to add add another 24m2 so that would take the extensions total to 66m2.
It's on an acre plot, no neighbours.
We're having our first valuation today so if that goes well, it'll be onto next steps.
Thanks everyone.

These are the rules throughout England for permitted development is extensions which don't need planning permission.
They are not relevant when a full planning application is required - local policies of the relevant Council are used to assess the planning application.