HMO Next Door - Advice Please

[Helga55]

Just that really, have found out that the builder who bought next door (semi-detached) and has spent 12 months ‘renovating’ it to be a family home, well that’s what he told us… is going to be a HMO.

I’m dreading it tbh, he spun us a tale about it being a family home with creating en-suites for each bedroom, creating more space with a loft conversion, and all along his plan was to fill it with as many people as possible. He’s certainly not going to care about who they are, their lifestyles. I’m worried as we have young children here, there’s vulnerable elderly neighbours close by who will worried about numerous comings and goings, we’re On a main road and it just adds to traffic issues we already have. Our walls are paper thin as it is, we can hear conversations and general noise anyway and with more people next door, it’s going to be even worse especially with bedrooms on three floors

What im absolutely pissed off about more than anything was his blatant lies to our faces about it being sold as a family home so we wouldn’t oppose his loft conversersion, which btw he managed to knock through into our loft as well as removing our roof tiles for longer than we had allowed him permission for. If we’d had known this was his plan, we would have opposed it immediately, and now can’t do anything about it. This loft conversion overlooks our garden, and I hate to think that our privacy is potentially at risk depending on who ends up there

We’ve been understanding with the noise, mess, etc, thinking it will eventually be a lovely home for a family, it was a house that just needed some love putting back into it. It’s just not big enough to be an HMO, the only communal area is a small kitchen, there’s no sofa at all in the house! No front room, the bedrooms can only just fit a double bed and a small wardrobe in them, how do I know you ask.. the twat has posted it on the local FB page with pictures, so I assume he’s doing this off his own back and not using an EA to deal with it

I will be contacting the council Monday morning as there is no licence granted so far that I can see for the property, but apart from this, is there anything else I can do to oppose it?

A HMO needs certain rules and regulations to comply with a licence, first of is all doors have to be fire doors and all upstairs windows must be escape proof.
You need to ask the planning department, if he’s been issued a HMO license and if it meets HMO regulations, then go from there.

Until you said 1950s build I assumed you lived in my road.

The house that is currently converting plans to magically fit six cars into a drive that currently fits two

and convert one household into five (including two in what was built as a gym in the garden)

It will become a magnet for rats.

We had a 3 bed a few doors down turned into a 5 bed HMO. We wrote to our local councillors who did some investigation for us - no need for a license or planning permission in our area. Our primary issue was parking as it’s on a busy corner junction next to a school that people already park dangerously on.

Being totally honest, it’s been no issue at all. They’re young professionals I assume - we occasionally see them come and go but have no problems at all with them.

What’s the difference? Isn’t it just students or young professionals or does it not mean that?

Why is everyone so against HMO’s? I lived in them for 7 years in London. How else are people meant to live away from home newly graduated? I feel it’s a sense of entitlement from people complaining. I’m also a planning officer in a London council so deal with this regularly

My first home once leaving home was a hmo. Lived with some great people there.

As others have said, lots of people live in them. students, young professionals etc, especially in London. They're not bail hostels!

They are actually providing affordable housing for single people/couples. They are likely to be quieter than a family home if your walls a thin. Babies crying, kids screaming, dogs barking, tv blaring... all this comes with a family house.

I have ZERO problems with HMOs in principle
BUT
with the new licencing rules, too many people are being crammed into houses
and allowing outbuildings to count as bedrooms is insane.

ALSO
HMOs by definition have locks on all bedroom doors
they are NOT like a student house
each tenancy is separate and residents have no control over their housemates

3.or 4 professionals is an HMO
An HMO full of adults minding their business is better than a noisy family. Student HMOs cannot be compared to adult HMOs. People in HMO's are human. We had more traffic and grief living next to a horrid small family.

I’ve lived in an HMO before and frankly I don’t think we had any issues? We were all really quiet, people are busy working and minding their own business.

If it was a student area then I suppose it would naturally be noiser.

Where do you all live with professionals in HMOs? HMOs are an absolute blight in my area and have wrecked the market for buyers. They’re not full of professionals but single men.

Exactly, they are all keeping each other accountable on the noise etc because if its paper thin to your house it will be even more obviously noisy to them. You can get a noisy drug taking family who own their home, that would be harder to get rid off than a troublesome renter in an HMO where presumably the neighbours and renters will all push the landlord or agent to evict. I think HMOs are demonised too much. There is a housing crisis, many people are too poor to rent somewhere bigger..accept it.

The HMO next to us is used to house people with mental health issues that have been released from section but cannot return to home life. We have had paedophiles who have attacked local children, people who have exposed themselves. People been attacked. Lo and behold they keep their licence which we were never able to appeal and no planning permission or notice of change of intent was shared. The people paying for the residents to live there? The same borough that we keep appealing to for help. Oh and to add insult to injury, I will never be able to sell my house without disclosing all of the problems. They have ruined my home and my peace.
We were also told would be a family home.
It's so corrupt. It's horrendous

There's literally no difference. What you're describing is an HMO.
Its also nothing new im afraid.

"I’m quite sure he’s not going to give two shiny shites who moves in as long as he gets paid, and this is what worries me. Plus I have an elderly gent the other side of us, and two elderly ladies the other, and they will all be worried about the comings and goings of numerous people. I understand that professionals and people who do care about their surroundings will respect the space, but if course there’s no guarantee is there."

Your first sentence may well be right, but all the problems you list could be just as true about a family as an HMO. Why would you and your neighbours be more worried about the comings and goings of friends of people house sharing, then you would those of the friends of few kids from a nice large family?

I grew up with a family two doors away. They were a pair of good older teenage kids and a nice dad (who eventually had a breakdown and moved away) and a fiercely alcohol addicted mother. I don't think you'll have more "comings and goings of numerous people" than we had from this family. And in house shares I've been in, there's been less drunken shouting on the street than there was from that family. You are being rather ridiculous really.

Tenancy can be single or joint.

I’ve had joint and two of my kids at Uni who all have joint contracts. One doesnt

it’s actually very normal for landlords to make students share the rent responsibility (and a bloody nightmare )

Definitely try and get it blocked if you can. My lovely neighbours were evicted, the house bought and converted into an HMO with the landlords letting via the council. To say it’s awful is an understatement. A string of horrendous tenants, constant weed smoking (from 5 different rooms, it’s a small 3 bed terrace converted into 6 bedsits and my younger daughter’s bedroom stank constantly of weed), the noise as only 1 works so people are often up all night watching loud tv, incredibly loud music and all sorts keeping my elder daughter up all night) and we finally got the worst tenant who I suspect was dealing and possibly working as a sex worker evicted after one of her visitors set the driveway on fire next to the gas meter!!
It’s been 4 years of hell. This is my dream house. I bought it as a respite for my daughters after divorce. The council couldn’t care less and the landlords are horrendous and harass me if I complain. They didn’t need a license as they had a loophole in our area. This has now been stopped but there are 5 or 6 in our street and they’re all awful. I am not sure the tenants benefit either as the one lovely tenant hates it as much as we do. the rooms are tiny and have no light at the back side of the house. And the council pay £900 a room to the awful landlords!

Both my DCs (mid 20s London professionals) live in HMOs - they’re decent tenants. Is there any reason to think the landlord will be renting to non-professionals?

A house share and HMO are totally different.

I’ve lived in loads of HMOs. At least 6 across my twenties in London. Sometimes with friends sometimes with strangers who became friends!
We mainly were out at work (tv producer, estate agent, make up artist, airline steward) and then hobbies eg 5 a side football.
I can’t see why anyone would dread that, other than the fact our recycling bin was always overflowing as it wasn’t big enough for an HMO

On the other hand if you dont want to live near HMOs or more kindly dont want single people to have to live in shared housing with all that brings, you could campaign to the government to increase local housing allowance for single people to allow them to afford to live in self contained accommodation. And/or for restrictions on the rent that can be charged by private landlords. Or for more availability of social housing. Or better salaries in keeping with the rising cost of living.

Move asap

No. An HMO is literally defined as 3 or more tenants from more than one household who share facilities (could just be a kitchen).
An unlicensed HMO is the same thing but illegal, unsafe and without protection for tenants.

Maybe I have understood HMOs wrong then! I thought they just meant that the tenants rent individually from the landlord so:

• a single person could rent a room in a HMO from the landlord
• they would pay just the rent for their room and use of communal facilities
• they would only be responsible for this rent
• they could have no say in who the other people were

Whereas in a house share the people rent together

• they agree to rent as a group
• they are together responsible for the full rent
• they could commonly ask for their friends to fill spaces in the tenancy

Does it mean more than that?