Chimney breast removal for storage reasons

[Resetneeded]

OK - so just a quick bit of background to my longish dilemma/vent. Family of 4, 2 DS age 5 and nearly 2. We live in a victorian-style 3 bed semi. All three bedrooms are decent double bed sizes, and in fact we have a small mini office attached to the master bedroom. We bought because of the lovely tall ceilings and location. It has been abused by previous owners with successive poor quality DIY.

I feel like I'm a bit stuck on how to set up the home for success. Storage is a big issue and we've sort of tinkered with it around the edges, buying multiple cupboards, book cases, chests of drawers etc. But it doesn't all hang together properly, in part because we have chimney breasts and radiators all in the wrong places.

Bedroom 1 - bed is up against chimney breast - wasted space, no room to put bed side tables off the shelf, would need to be bespoke. Other wall has radiator. Bed is massive superking so also an absolute pain to move, but we could use the storage opportunity underneath better.

Bedroom 2 - has double bed tucked in corner, again annoying chimney breast meaning no room for a full end to end wardrobe. None of the furniture was actually bought for the room, including the WFH office set up I have. Want DS5 to have this room but need to find a new home for its current contents such as adults coats, bedding, paperwork, printer etc.

Bedroom 3 - Kids share, cot bed, single (extendable) bed, 2 chest of drawers, a wardrobe, chimney breast (which the cot bed is up against) and then another pointless cupboard. Once DS5 moves, the cot bed goes and some of the toys downstairs can come back up.

So, in my view the most logical option is to take out all the chimney breasts upstairs. This would cost around 35k I reckon as we need multiple steels per room. Plus probably more for renovation etc.

Does that make sense?

I'd leave the downstairs chimney breasts in the living and dining rooms, but ultimately remove the one in the kitchen.

Just interested in hearing from others with similar set up how they solved their storage issues with this kind of age group?

And this is before I even talk about the kitchen/utility/conservatory space.

Moving radiators will be loads cheaper
I would be worried that removing the fireplaces would remove value from the house. Also would you take them out in the rooms below too?

I assume the bedroom your son will go into won't need a double bed in it so that will solve that issue?

Have you had quotes for removing the chimney breasts from the loft space too rather than supporting them underneath with steels?

Can you post a floor plan with room sizes? Lots of families live in these types of houses so there has to be a cheaper way of reconfiguring the space. That's a lot of money for not actually a lot of gained space. It's really disruptive and dirty work with all the hassle of party wall agreements and potentially devaluing your house.

Each chimney will be a skip's worth of bricks. It will be messy, like really really really dusty. Is there a chimney in the roof or loft space?

We had a couple of rooms which had wall with door, wall with window, wall with chimney and wall with radiator. In one room we managed to move the radiator to under the window and we did remove the chimney breast as part of an extension - it's made the world of difference. In the other we have bespoke shelves and built-ins, which was less disruptive.

Removing chimney breasts will involve a huge amount of structural building work and mess, and be extremely expensive. If not done properly, it could prove catastrophic.

Get the radiators moved instead. Much easier and cheaper.

We removed all the chimney breasts from upstairs in our Victorian semi OP, to make better use of the small-ish rooms upstairs (also 3 bed semi, family of 5!) However we did it BEFORE moving in, as others have pointed out, it is an enormously big and dusty job and if you go room by room you could be living in dusty chaos for quite some time! Nevermind the cost.

I'd say if you could move out for a month or so then maybe? It is honestly much easier having them out, as beautiful as they (could) look (ours had no fireplaces in them anyway), they do make bedrooms awkward.

In the living areas I was happy to work around them to maintain the period features and style of the space.

In our cottage we have bed against chimney breast in master bedroom and chest of drawers in one alcove. My side is a dressing table and I have an ottoman stool that I can have phone/alarm clock on overnight. DH has alarm on chest of drawers and his alcove has built in shelving. Radiator is under window. It's a very big room. Loft is spacious as a room and lots of storage around chimney breasts. Double at the back has airing cupboard and boiler built into alcove and room for home office. It's the guest room, so no wardrobe. DS has smallest room when not at uni. Wardrobe one side of chimney breast desk on other. He has single bed. Ottoman seating at end of bed and bedside Ottoman stool. Room is not wide but quite long. Downstairs we have original Victorian cupboards in dining room alcove, the other 3 are shelved. In kitchen the bottom of the chimney breast is a cupboard which once had boiler in it. One side alcove is fully cupboarded and the other leads into the vast understairs pantry and what I whimsically call the 'wine cellar'. Our furniture is eclectic vintage and antique and I don't have any ikea apart from the odd storage basket

Moving the radiators would be cheaper but doesn't solve on its own the creation of suitably placed storage

Bedroom 1 needs radiator moved to under the bay window, that partially frees up a wall to be fair but I think we will still need a large vertical radiator to warm up the room nearest to the window.

Bedroom 2 radiator again move to under the window which tucks it into an alcove space by the chimney breasts. The wall closest to the door becomes free but it isn't really suitable for furniture.

Bedroom 3 again move radiator under the window, that frees up a lot of space on the opposite wall to be fair and I could retain the otherwise pointless chimney breast which is also on the party wall. However the kitchen chimney breast is underneath so might as well remove it.

All three rooms, but definitely #3 needs plastering and painting.

No, good point, I think that advice re number of steels was based anyway on supporting a potential loft conversion but admittedly that convo was years ago and I may be misremembering....

Noise and dust, steels, party wall agreements, building regs and that's just to remove them, then you've got to make good. If you also want to remodel the kitchen/utility/conservatory I would say unless you've got a massive garden, or some special requirements, find another house that meets your requirements. The costs and hassle of the work will not uplift the value enough to make it viable.

I would get some quotes but would then see what built in joinery you could get for that price. I've seen some amazing solutions on Instagram - a good joiner will be ££ but I think it would help keep character and not affect resale. Lots of people viewing Victorian style properties would be disappointed with original features having been removed.

I removed a stack up to the loft, moved a wall (not structural) by about 40cm and moved some of the radiators. Where it was possible I put in slim, very tall radiators, hung on the walls so no legs - opened up the wall and floor space. The beam for the top of the stack, which was retained, went in along the floor of the loft. Interestingly the structural engineer placed the beam parallel to the party wall but not against the wall - it meant I didn’t have the expense of party wall negotiations.

This was as well as replacing the whole kitchen, including getting rid of a sewage manhole in the kitchen, entrance, bathroom area and re doing the stairs, two bedrooms and landing area. My teens and I lived in the house while this happened. Basically turned the living room in to my bedroom, storage area and kitchen while it was all done. Super cramped and messy, it was crazy but I was so happy to get it done I wasn’t as cranky about it all as I could have been. I can highly recommend Screwfix dust doors - they helped keep the dirt out of the lives in areas.

Removing the stack opened up the kitchen and my bedroom a lot. I am so glad I was able to do it but it is expensive.

Do you have a loft, garage or a rear area that can be extended? If you’re going to spend that kind of money it may be easier to create space in one of those areas instead.

Interesting that you also think that removing them devalues the home. Just to add, no functioning fireplaces in any of them, they were all bricked up already when we bought the house in all 6 rooms. It is also not something I've ever considered important when viewing homes for purchase.

We would never install an actual one for health reasons, maybe at a push a very nice fake one in the living room on electricity but it is sooooo far down the wishlist I doubt we would ever get to it.

I'll have to see if I can find a floorplan, possibly tomorrow if I get a chance with these two underfoot.

Just to add - I’m in London. Removing the stack has probably added value by improving my layout, as it’s pretty hard to utilise stoves in built up areas with all the regulations here. Very few properties use their chimneys in the city. Although mine is a 1920’s house so I guess if you have decorative hearths in a Victorian or Edwardian home it may be different. I guess it depends on where you are based, rural or city.

Yes I imagine we would have to move out. Loft space would need to be cleared too.

I'm considering bespoke carpentry and to be fair I could get away with that in the first bedroom by moving the radiator. I just don't think that is our most pressing problem but it could be part of the solution. Thanks for your suggestion!

Thanks this is what I'm thinking, we'd move out and get someone in to do effectively everything upstairs. It is very much a trade off but we are a bit miserable about the state of things upstairs and I need a reasonable plan for making it the blissful space it could be. V much a value for money spent question.

Similar to you we've kept the other period features downstairs as a nod.

Thank you, this sounds lovely especially what you've done with the various alcoves.

We were having a loft conversion done at the same time and the ceilings lowered to allow for it, so it made sense just to make all the mess in one go. If you can move out that's great!

Storage is still an issue for us, not going to lie (the loft is a bedroom so it's trade off isn't it) but as the kids get older there is slightly less 'stuff' and we just have to try and be a bit more brutal.

Losing chimney breasts upstairs does make it easier to do a wall of built-in wardrobes though doesn't it (which I'd love one day!!)

I think you are underestimating the cost and destruction removing the chimney breasts will cause.

Your estimate of £35k will go a very long way in resolving the issues you have by moving radiators and getting bespoke storage made.

Pwrsonally I’d look at restoring the fireplaces and making a feature of them.

I lived in a Victorian Terrace and did this with bespoke storage on the sides. They looked amazing and were a big draw when we came to sell.

I can’t help thinking you are seeing the chimney’s as the problem when actually the biggest issue appears to be radiator placement and lack of built in storage.

It’s not super pricy for a joiner to frame out alcoves and put in shelves and cupboards. You don’t need super expensive wood and can use beading to elevate then paint them.

They look brilliant if you put a statement colour/wallpaper on the chimney breast with the shelves/cupboards in a contrasting paint either side.

We went to reclamation yards to buy “new” Victorian fireplaces that others had ripped out (but check - you might have a nice surprise hiding behind where they are boarded up).

We didn’t make them working fireplaces upstairs (but did downstairs) but they looked amazing with fab mirrors over the mantle. As above they were a major selling period feature for buyers.

Personally I think ripping them out is the worst of all worlds. You lose/can’t ever restore a period feature and you’ll still have to pay for new storage plus the massive cost and impact.

It not a job you can live in the house whilst it’s done.

Are you sure that's right about the placement of the steel meaning you avoided the PWA? I would have thought you couldn't avoid by just actually removing the chimney breast as it's that which is attached to the neighbouring house and affects the structural integrity of both houses.

You noted in your post the house has been abused by previous owners because of diy
and now you want to remove an original Victorian feature

So much the same imo.

Can you post a plan. Mumsnetters do like to get around a plan with suggestions

Agree Metricmc’s engineer is absolutely wrong
they should have got a party wall award

I agree with @DrPrunesqualer and @BreadInCaptivity - those previous DIY bodges have somewhat spoilt the original character of your Victorian home, yet your plans to remove the bedroom chimney breasts is just adding insult to injury imo.

I'm afraid, I'm of the 'why buy a period home, only to remove those original features' school of thought. Sorry @Resetneeded. I totally get the need for storage, but with all the work/mess/hassle involved, not to mention potentially devaluing your house, I'd rather move to somewhere more suitable.

However, for context, I'm biased as the previous philistines owners of our - externally attractive - conservation area Georgian cottage completely gutted it in 1965-70, removing virtually every original feature, down to the plaster, architrave and skirtings. All that remains is a single chimney breast and one room's worth of wide floorboards. I'm so bloody sad 😭

Really interesting, we are in London - to get what I would want next I'd be looking at £1.2/1.5 million and I just don't want to commit to that level of expense. The stamp duty at the lower end alone is 63k. The location we are in is significantly cheaper but I am conscious not to overdo it. The current ceiling is around 850-900k on this road so we've got headroom and we don't plan to move anytime soon.

Party wall nightmare. And your neighbours will hate you forever. I can promise that.